Initial Z Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi all, I want to get into racing this summer and want to put together a 240z that is race worthy and can be my every day driver as well. My objective is to have at least 300hp and lighter than stock for $4,000 not including the price of the car. I would prefer not to use a v8 (as gas mileage is a concern) but if that’s going to be my best option than so be it. Ideally I would like to use a Nissan engine but really I’m just looking for what combo is going to give me the best power to weight ratio for that kind of money. Well thanks for the input, Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 A cheap race car that you can drive on the street that gets great gas mileage is like a virgin hooker who can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch that you can take home to mom. Doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 A cheap race car that you can drive on the street that gets great gas mileage is like a virgin hooker who can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch that you can take home to mom. Doesn't exist. Best line of the week. LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Using a V8 can meet all your requirements. Based on the amount of money you want to spend you should be able to find an LT1 V8. It has aluminum heads (at least if the engine comes from an f-body) to keep the weight down, and it get's pretty decent fuel mileage as well. Put a K & N air filter, some headers, and 300 hp or more is easy to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial Z Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 A cheap race car that you can drive on the street that gets great gas mileage is like a virgin hooker who can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch that you can take home to mom. Doesn't exist. Hi-larious! ok i know that what what im asking for is a bit much but i just wanted to see if it could be done. thanks for the laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 It isn't a bit much. It is impossible and here's why... Safety regulations for WHAT type of racing?? SCCA? So you're building an ITS car? NASA? What are the rules? NHRA? What are the rules? To make a true "competitive" race car, you'll need to gutt everything possible to make it work and doing that won't make it livable on the street... Like a radio and sub box ( I know I do), sorry, can't have one. Like A/C or heat? Nope, can't have it... No creature comforts... Oh, want a cage? Better check the rules on the whole door bar/ Window net/ Fire supression/ Fuel cell/ racing seat/ harness req's... And don't get me going when we start discussing a safety inspection? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Well, there is the option of building the car for autocross (if one considers that racing). Certainly not as many rules as say SCCA or NASA and the car could still be a streetable car. Just a thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial Z Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Sorry, when I say that I want a race car that’s also a daily driver what I mean is I want to build a car with an engine that is well balanced with the rest of the car so that later it can be used for racing (ICSCC). Something that I will be able to take to driver training classes and when I improve my skills then modify the car to more of a dedicated race car. Now I know that I could just use a stock 240z to do driver training but I’d rather learn on something that’s more closely resembles the final product. So my question now becomes what engine transmission combo can I put together for about $4,000 that’s going to be a good combo for racing later down the line? Sorry fore not being specific enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial Z Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 I'd be up for some autocross too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 If you swap a different motor you'll be in the insanely fast class for autox or roadracing. $4K is probably enough for a good suspension setup and an LSD. That will make you go a lot faster than any engine swap, especially at an autox. I'd much rather have a really good suspension with a 150 hp L24 than a 500 hp V8 with stock suspension at an autox. Put your money in the suspension first. Then brakes. Then start thinking about the engine. Of course this advice is totally ignoring whatever cage, fire suppression system, helmet, driving suit, etc might be needed for the road racing. Search the brakes/wheels/suspension forum, there is TONS of info on suspension mods and alignment settings etc. If you just want to do gnarly burn outs go do a V8 swap or a turbo swap and get your 300 hp and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I'm 100% in agreement with Jon on this one... Put the money in brakes, suspension, and an LSD. Then do some bolt-ons for your existing L6 motor, like cam/ header/ intake/ carb/ injection/ ignition/ stuff to make around 180-190HP. In that light a car, you'd be surprised how much learning you can get done at HPDEs and still have a lot of street enjoyment, and be competitive at the autoX! Learn with less HP and you'll be much faster and much smoother in the end. Every "SERIOUS" car driver I know will tell you the same. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaysZ Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 my friend told me this and i think i saw it online here as well: if you want to build a car, pick any 2... but you can't do 3. 1) Fast 2) Cheap 3) Reliable like said above, if your focus is autoX, do your suspension/brakes first with the $4k . with *any* car, that should be #1 priority IMO. (and make sure you have a strong foundation to begin with). gut the hell out of it. i have 1 seat and no interior whatsoever. i don't mind the added noise and vibration lol. but.. $4k total? hell, you can easily dump that much into the L6 alone and still have room for improvement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial Z Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thanks for the input. I see I was getting a little a head of my self. So exactly how would you guys spend $4,000 on a stock 240z knowing that eventually you would want to get it into SCCA races but in the mean time would want to use it as a daily driver? And what would be the difference in setups for a SCCA and an autocross car? Could I use one car fore both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc's240z Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 initialZ, I think that you need to look at what kind of racing you want to do. I wish I had a dollar for everyone like you who says I want a combo street car /race car. JM and Mike Kelly said it best...you can't have a competitive street /race Z.... My suggestion is start with you....go to some events and see what you like to do...Auto X is boring as heck to me, road racing is where it's at. Other people feel differently.... Pick what you want to do and focus on that goal. read up on class requirements decide what you want to do and then ask us how to achieve your goal. Your current question is so ambigious that we can't answer you specifically... BTW with $4K you should be able to find a retired ITS Z that needs some TLC, it would be the makings of a good race or autox car and a great starting point, dont tear up your street/daily driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial Z Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 another dumb question... whats is "ITS" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I am building my third 240Z in my career.... It is a gen1 SBC swap and my second track built streetable car... I have fought with braking and wheelspin enough to realize that it is well worth investing in the Willwood racing brakes and a good LSD.....You will spend almost as much money on swaps like the 240SX rear brake set ups... Check out the Willwoods on a lot of members cars...Everyone who runs a 240Z on track in a class that allows big brakes uses them...You cannot find reliable lsd units used for cheap...I have seen plenty of them well worn on E-bay going for enough money to warrant rebuilding an R200 and installing your own fresh 4 pinion LSD unit... I have been collecting parts and the project is comming together...I am using all fiberglass front end parts...FG hood, FG fenders, FG headlight scoops, FG air dam with splitter and ducts, aluminum radiator, removed hood hinges, removed bumpers and mounts to try to shed some of the increased weight form the V-8 conversion... I have already aquired the LSD, 280Z rear stubs and half shafts, GC coilovers, AZC camber plates, I am buying the AZC 4 lug full race Willwood kit. The conversion to a capable track car cannot be done for $4k... You are better off getting a stock 240/280Z set up and driven correctly...$4k will go a log way towards rebuilding and race prepping using mostly stock parts and systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thanks for the input. I see I was getting a little a head of my self. So exactly how would you guys spend $4,000 on a stock 240z knowing that eventually you would want to get it into SCCA races but in the mean time would want to use it as a daily driver? And what would be the difference in setups for a SCCA and an autocross car? Could I use one car fore both? Get an Scca Legal Roll bar like an Auto Power that, later if you decide to make the car into a dedicated race car, you can add on to to make a roll cage. Get good strut tower braces, trianulated in the front. Get camber plates and coil overs and a set of Illumina's and 250lbs springs in the rear and 225lbs in the front. Get a set of 15"x7" or 8" (lighter the better) wheels and 225/50/15 D.O.T. race tires, a good set of brake pads and stanless lines. Get every thing in tune on the car including the allignment. That should get rid of your 4K and start you out into Street Prepared on the autocross course and start to get the car ready for road racing in ITS (I think) and still be streetable. For the road racing you would need to add on to the roll bar and make it into a cage as well as some other preperations not needed for autox, some of those things discussed in earlier post. Do not touch the motor until you have raced the car some. It might seam slow on the street but on a track with a good suspension it will seam much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 You can also download all of the SCCA rulebooks from their website. Might be a good idea to know what you're going to build before you start building it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 A cheap race car that you can drive on the street that gets great gas mileage is like a virgin hooker who can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch that you can take home to mom. Doesn't exist. Wow, that was vivid. Here's what I think. I agree that if 4k is the limit put it all into suspension/brakes. If you know you're gonna go dedicated race car with it in the future it'll be MUCH easier to get used to a new motor, than a new suspension feel. And as long as you invest wisely you'll only need new springs with the new motor. Suspension is most of the feel of a car. Motors mean much less. Now, the stock L motor doesn't get great gas milage, but it's not too terrible for it's era. And it sounds to me like you don't really know what you want yet for a motor at all. I personlly think that decision can only be made by ONE person, you. I don't think you should have us tell you what motor to use. Sure, take our advice, but please let it be your own decision. I want to do a NA 3 rotor Z someday, and I won't let anyone else here smack that idea down, becuase I know why I want to do it. You need to figure out what you want and why. There are many motors out there that will get 300HP reliably and with good economy. The main factor that will keep this car from being streetable will be saftey regulations (as stated before by much wiser people). Maybe you'll just want to stick to open track days and club evens and such, where the most ever required is a roll bar and a fire estinguisher (both good ideas anyways). I personlly think if you're gonna race SCCA or NASA you'd better be out there every chance you get to really make it worth your while. To get your car made to SCCA spec and the get your SCCA registration only to race once every couple of months would be like buying a really expensive major leage baseball mit only to use it playing catch with your son. Sounds cool, but maybe a bit of a waste. Hope you get your ideas sorted out 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v80z Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 If you want to go for ICSCC then check out the car classes and then find out which race groups are the most popular. A zcar may not be the most cost effective platform to start racing. There is alot of competition in the east with Rx7's. The SCCA has a class that has very little engine mods and is focused on suspension and braking. It is and entry level class cost wise. Both NASA and SCCA have classes that only need safety gear to get into. Roll cage $400.00 - $1000.00 Fire Bottle $400.00 Helmet $200 approved suit $150 -$400 approved Shoes $50 approved gloves $40approved Current Harness $200 approved General car prep. Fluids tires brakes $1000.00 total = $2600 Then you gotta get licensed by a sanctioning body which if this is your first time yopu will not have any credentials to get transferred to help get you in the door. Club annual dues $50 License fee annual $50 Physical Whatever School/ EVENT $300.00 fee Nomex $100 total $500 Then you gotta tow. Tow vehicle Trailer. also budget your expenses for each event you plan to attend. It cost me anywhere from $800.00 to $1200.00 each time I wanted to go. Entry fee $200-$300 Race Fuel $100 Hotel/Camping/ Meals $300.00 transponder rental $50 -$75 So to get the ride ready and all the gear, licensed and get to the first event after school you are looking at Approximately $4000.00 Man Now I know why I took a break from that addiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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