Guest bastaad525 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 you're considering trading it in six months after buying it Not that I am not loving the SRT-4... it's been a great car so far, and a few cheap and easy mods have really woken it up. Asides from an, IMO, overly notchy shifter and being wrong wheel drive, it's a great sleeper (with the wing removed) and a real fun car. But... somehow it is just 'lacking' some thing... some of the things that I loved about the 240z turbo I just sold. For one... I thought I could deny it, I thought I could get around it... but there's no way to do it... plain and simple... FWD sucks. There's just something wrong about spinning the front wheels that kills the fun of it. The car handles great for a front driver with the LSD it pulls out of corners nicely... but the E-brake is useless so I can't even fake a powerslide. I like powerslides, thank you very much. Hell I could even get my old Sentra SE-R to break the rear loose with a good yank on the E-brake. And about those burnouts... I dunno if this is a byproduct of FWD or not... but this car doesn't do nice smooth spins... instead... it hops... and hops BAD. Bad enough that people have broken axles on relatively stock setups. So whereas it was a ton of fun getting the tires spin by launching agressively in the Z... I'm afraid to get on it hard at all in first gear in the SRT Maybe it's stupid but doing nice long burnouts leaving black stripes down the street was one of the highlights of owning the Z. So... I'm looking to possibly jump ship and get back into some high power RWD performance... and I didn't have to look far before I found the immense bang for the buck bargain that is the 400 hp, 6 speed Pontiac GTO. I've seen these on the dealer lots new stickered as low as around $29,000. $29,000!!!!! That's less than a V8 mustang, Evo, STi, any Dodge SRT-8... hell I can't think of ANY high power RWD car that comes anywhere close to the amount of power for this much money. So... I'm gonna be hitting a couple dealerships over the weekend... just to see... what can I get for a trade in for the SRT, and what can I talk these dealers down to on the price (I've had good luck so far getting them down on the sticker price for the last two new cars I bought). I know the SRT has probably dropped significantly in value in the short six months I've had it... which will be the one factor that may keep me from doing this. Good news is I put a fairly large down ($3000) and have been paying off more than my required payment, so I'm probably ahead of the loan (owe less than the car is worth). So.. we'll see. I know I'm looking at the GTO and I really love the car. Hell even my WIFE loves the look of the car and surprisingly, is not against the idea at all, even keeping in mind my monthly payments might go up $150 or more. To me it's still almost a sleeper of a car (minus those vents in the nose)... a normal looking coupe with the heart of the Corvette beating underneath. All I can see is cheap, high HP, and RWD... the exact formula that got me going on building a hybrid Z to begin with. Anyways! Anyone with opinions on this please chime in! Am I screwing myself by taking a hit on the SRT? I don't really have the time to try to sell it private party... at least, not if I want to sell the car before I move to VA at the end of the month. But yeah it's probably more sensible to hold out until after the move and try to sell private party for almost no loss off what I paid at all. Thing is... there is an ABUNDANCE of GTO's at the Pontiac dealers around here and word is they've not been selling too well so I feel like I could get a great deal on one of these here. We'll see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar240z Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 once i saw a srt4 owner trying to do a burnout, and it looked so wrong with the back wheels staying put. i walked away thouroughly confused... then i realized it was fwd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 funny thing is some can actually pull off nice burn outs. I saw an '03 yellow one go peeling out down the street and yeah it was this nice smooth spin with lots of smoke... sure it was the wrong wheels but it made all the right sounds and a nice amount of smoke... problem is I can't seem to get my car to do that... get on it hard in first and it's hopppp-ppp-ppp-ppp-ppp. No smoke, no tire squeal, no fun. you guys think insurance on the GTO would be a LOT higher than the SRT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I love the GTO, think it's a freakin awesome car, and think you'd be trading up big time, but maybe you should wait until after you've moved and both have jobs in VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 The GTO is going to be like one of those movies that makes more money released on DVD. It has all the right numbers but not enough magnetism to draw people off their couch. As a used car or "deal" car it is going to succeed. I think the very name "GTO" is what killed it. Although the car is pretty awesome, it is no way a "GTO" and GTO people were somewhat insulted. Now forget the whole "GTO" part of the car and just be objective, it's a great car! If you think you can swing it, go for it. Of course we want to hear all about it when you do. Baast, I didn't know you were moving to VA? That's only six hours from me and I drive through coastal VA to get to Cape Hatteras, NC once and a while. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 You're gonna take a beating trading yours in and they are losing so much on the GTOs that they won't give much wiggle room on the trade, and you might end upside down in the deal... That said, I think other than the weight penalty of the car, it is a true sleeper and a great value. The difference in that car and your SRT Neon is amazing... Not even in the same atmosphere! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleh Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 my friends SRT4, has crazy wheel hop. it gets scary if he drops the clutch at like 5K. i think with some poly filled motor mounts, it should eliminate the hop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I just read that they are going to stop making the GTO this summer. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/NEWS11/60221011 There might be a run on them in the Spring for that reason, or a bunch being almost given away. Too bad it's 3700+ lbs. But even still, a decent "family" car . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 well I went down and test drove a red GTO today... I was... well... underwhelmed. Right off the bat I can FEEL the immense weight of the car... ponderous is the right word, I think, that describes the feel of that car in motion. Secondly... I approached that car thinking like "cool! I can have a C6 Corvette for $30,000!!!!". True... it is the exact same drivetrain as the C6 Corvette... but similiarties end there with an abrubt THUD! From the incredibly long and unsporty feeling clutch pedal throw, long and notchy feeling shift throws, soft brakes, abundant 'squish' and roll in the suspension, and immensely heavy feel of the car.... I was not impressed. I was quite literally reminded of my old Camaro... plenty of forward motivation and an abundance of torque even from low RPM, but performance in every other aspect was a bit soft. The GTO definately feels like a modern version of the old muscle cars many of us know and love. The salesman encrouaged me to get on it WOT, just asked that I didn't go past 5000 rpm, and I gladly obliged. Full bore acceleration with me, him, and my wife in the car, felt slower than my SRT-4 with just me in the car. Mind you, my SRT-4 does have a few mods and is probably a good 10-15hp over stock (already underrated at 230 crank hp, most agree they make more like 250-260). Figure the weight difference between SRT with me and GTO with three is probably in excess of 1000 lbs (SRT curb is ~2800-2900lbs, GTO ~3700). The exhaust sound was also sort of a letdown... the SRT actually sounds more muscular at idle whereas the GTO's idle is a bit subdued... at full bore it sounded like a 'Corvette light'... it didn't have that full lusty sound I'd hoped for, but didn't sound bad. I'd say.. if you heard it going by you'd know it was packing some heat, for sure. Other things... it didn't feel nearly as stiffly sprung as the SRT, nor did the brakes feel as great as the SRT's brakes which are flat out AWESOME. Felt much less like a sports car overall than the SRT which doesn't drive the way you'd expect it to by looking at it. And GAWD that shifter!!! Having just installed the Mopar short throw shifter in my SRT... I mean we're talking like 3" from 1st to second gear with that shifter... and a nice mechanical SNICK. But man by contrast the GTO felt like I was rowing a damn boat! And the clutch pedal throw was horrible!!!! The gates also felt slightly vague and twice I went into 5th instead of 3rd. Clutch take up was nice and smooth though, and pedal effort wasn't too bad for a clutch holding 400 hp.... just way too long of a throw from fully down to fully up. Otherwise... well it's a gorgeous car. It is sorta plain, but I like that... sleepers kick ***. Interior was beautiful... even the rear seats were sporty and well bolstered (don't plan on fitting three back there though!). The leather was beautiful and comfortable, everything was pretty well laid out... the driver seat in the GTO is definately a nice place to be. I'm not used to seeing such a nice interior in a GM product... no offense GM guys! My first thought when I got out of the car though pretty much boiled down to "I don't think I want to trade my SRT for this...". The SRT is really much more sporty feeling, feels just as quick even though I know the GTO, on paper at least, should be markedly faster (magazines put them at low 13's consistently.... SRT with current upgrades should be a high 13 if I drive worth a damn). I know with another $1000-1500 in upgrades I could get the SRT to be just as fast if not faster. If I bought the GTO... I know I COULD make it faster but in the end if I bought the GTO the whole point would be not wanting or needing to ever upgrade it. I think on any twisty mountain road though I'd rather have the SRT. I do wish I'd found the traction control button on the GTO and turned that shiz OFF during the test drive... since I only got on it hard in second and third I feel like maybe it was choking power to keep from lighting the tires. It's so hard to freakin tell much from just a test drive... but these were my impressions after 10 mins with the car. Overall I liked it but wasn't really 'impressed'... I didn't come away feeling like it'd be a definate trade UP from the SRT... more of an even exchange. More power, presence and RWD traded for a lighter more nimble yet also more utilitarian car. I'm still considering it, after all is said and done, though I may just take the advice given above and wait until AFTER the move. Not only would that help as far as having the job situation settled, but I think I could get a better deal on one in VA. It turns out that even though nationwide sales for the car have SUCKED, in CA they are apparently selling pretty well, and the dealers I've talked to have an attitude like "well they are being discontinued so they will be collectible and we don't think we need to come down on the price". I did find one dealership who's got four new '06's about an hour away from me and are asking $28,990... by FAR the lowest I've found (average $33,000). I'm going to talk to them tommorow and maybe try for another test drive this time with getting on the freeway to see how the thing really moves. Until then... I'm kinda disillisioned with the whole thing and am now wondering what got into me last night that I started hating FWD so much By the way I also test drove a Solstice while I was there... I'll keep it short for this one and just tell you guys that a) the freakin car is GOR GEE OUS!!! it is set up in many ways almost like a race car, very short clutch pedal throw, very short brake pedal throw and very grabby brakes, very short shift throw, c) the car handles amazingly, d) the car is very small outside and in... I'm 6'2" or so and the fit was tight... ESPECIALLY the pedal box, but cramped seating as well... I don't think I'd want to do a long trip in the car, and getting in and out between the seat and steering wheel was... interesting e) the engine is seriously lacking in power and is loud and buzzy... valvetrain noise drowned out exhaust noise and was not pleasant, and there was some shaking and shuddering going on there that was disconcerting. Also... even though it was a brand new car with only like 5 miles on it, there were some rattles going on in the interior... can't say if they were inherent or just some stuff that gets removed or what. Overall... I did like the car overall and would definately consider and AM considering buying one when the 260hp turbocharged GXP version comes out late this year or early next year, assuming of course I'm still driving the SRT by then. In it's current 170hp form though.. no way. As with the miata, I just can't see owning a car that looks and handles and brakes like that that just doesn't have any real umph under the hood. So.. there you have it. My wanderlust has ceceded a bit and I'm back to loving my SRT... maybe still a hair less, but it really is a great car. I'd say there's still a 50/50 chance I end up with a GTO, possibly before the move if this other place really can come thru for under $29,000, if not then I'll hold off until I get to VA to continue shopping. Good car... not as good as I'd thought or hoped, but still sweet especially if you priortize stop light racing and long comfy cruises over stiffly sprung cars making runs up crazy mountain roads. And even if it didn't feel as fast because of it's heft and suspension... knowing how fast it is and should be and how much power it has plus you know upgrades are gonna be abundant since it should share a lot of the Corvettes options... bottom line is just like the SRT it's a lot of car for the money and still very tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 i was going to mention the new turbocharged solstice, i'm sure that car is a blast. as said earlier i have also heard that poly or solid engine mounts in the SRT get rid of the wheel hop. if you reach the point where you can't stand the FWD anymore, just hack up a 9" and throw it in the rear, this is hybrid z you know, haha. i like the SRT4 but they drive from the wrong wheels, a rear drive version would be amazing. needless to say i've seen multiple SRT's running in the high to mid 12's in the quarter, the car deffinetally has potential. good luck on whatever you decide, and remember GM is bringing back the camaro, just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Want to drive the sedan version of the Corvette? Test drive a used CTS-V. I actually liked driving it better than the C6 after doing both. Won't get the deal that you would with a GTO, but the prices may be comparable on an 04 CTS-V and new GTO. May be...I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 good point about the CTS-V I think that one has the same WHOLE drivetrain is the same as the C6, whereas the GTO has a different trans or something right? I know the CTS-V won't be as 'cheap' as the GTO. About the SRT... yeah I've already gotten poly motor mounts and it did help with the hop but not eliminate it. It mostly depends on the ambient temp and the road surface... cool temps and rough road make it hop a lot easier. There is already an outfit working on a RWD conversion for the SRT using using the Jeep liberty belhousing and trans (Liberty uses the same engine as the SRT). They are projecting roughly $8000 for the conversion... hey that brings me to less than the cost of the GTO!!!! I've considered it but... damn the whole point of the SRT was that it was so cheap. By the way, we just had our first known SRT on the srtforums break into the 10's! Using the Mopar Stage 3 upgrade and supporting mods (exhaust etc.). Lots of SRT's have been verified in the 11's on Stage 3 and aftermarket turbo kits as well. Stage 2's are in 12's on slicks. Stage 1's low 13's. No doubt they have a lot of potential wrong drive wheels or not. It's a great car... if I end up keeping it I think I'm gonna love when we have our first kid and he/she grows up getting driven around in the backseat and becomes a speed nut like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Well, I have a few comments for you to think about... The GTO is a very nice car, but it is no Corvette, even with the running gear, and neither is the Cadillac. Unfortunately, the Caddy has a bad history of killing differentials. The GTO is as nice as any 3700 pound car with a T56 and LS2 motor can be. Making it go faster is as easy as upgrades to any car, and although the SRT is nice enough, it is no match in comparison to the GTO. The GTO has a huge support mechanism in the aftermarket, so parts are cheap and the power gains are very real. Spend the same money on parts for the GTO that you did on your SRT and you'll be better rewarded. However, it is a big car and you won't get past that weight. All you can do is make all that weight handle better to compensate for it. I'd also consider the new Mustang, since it is in the same class... As to the new Pontiac Convertible, every test drive I've read suggested it fell well short of the mark set by the Miata. Although it "looks" cool, it simply is of most of the GM product line. Unfortunately, many of these bright ideas (remember the Fiero?) don't work out so well... I 100% believe that the Solstice is another Fiero and won't last past 4 production years. You want a decent rear drive? And you want it to be a sports car/ two seater? Dude, wait 'till you get out here and I'll help you find a clean 2004 Vette. If you want a Vette, BUY a Vette. There is no replacement... You also have a family car in the "Honda" you bought your wife, so you can justify the two seater, and you'll be close enough to me that I can help you with the care and feeding of the car... For $30K you can even get a CLEAN 2002-2004 Z06 or two... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Vettes are just amazing, I've always wanted one since I was about 10. I've gotten the chance to drive a few, like a 66' and a few c4's, and a handful of C5's, but the most badass overall was the 2004 Z06 i drove, it was just perfect. The one thing I noticed about the vettes though while driving is the clutch. Your either on it or off it, there is no inbetween. That was my biggest problem, its not bad, just a problem when you don't know howto drive a vette. There was an incident one time where I first stalled it, then gave it a tiny bit of gas when I disengaged the clutch, and lit the tires up. In the garage we have these metal grates under the floor so you can see down into the pit below, the torque was so great that the grates lifted up and slammed them back down when it spun the tires. AMAZING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin_Jason Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I disagree with Mike regarding "Spend the same money on parts for the GTO that you did on your SRT and you'll be better rewarded." I think that statement would work just fine with any OTHER 4cyl compact out there...except the SRT4. I also own one and have been knee deep in the SRT4 aftermarket industry for a few years now. They are extremely responsive to mods and the mods are cheap. Being based on a Neon seems to mandate that, luckily. A stock SRT4 will run low 14s with the average driver. With a mere $1000 in mods thrown at it..the car will run high 12s with traction(full exhaust, stage1, wastegate, decent tires). The stock Whp of the 04-05 SRT4 is about 235-240Whp. There are numerous aftermarket turbo kits that simply bolt on that will put the car well in excess of 400Whp...for a bit over $2000 for the turbo kit and basic supporting mods. Not to compare the Whp of the GTO vs. SRT4...but to compare the power to wieght ratios. An SRT4, wieghing a svelt 2850, with over 400Whp is an e-ticket ride for a 19,000 car and 'around' 2300 in mods. Even if the GTO makes enough power to outrun the little SRT4..you really cannot compensate for the half ton wieght difference. I also can't imagine what taking the extra 10k you'd spend on the GTO and putting it ALL into mods on the little neon. You'd have 450+ Whp (on pumpgas and stock internals), slot car handling , powerful brakes, we've only spent 5k so far...I mean you'd have to get creative to spend it all unless you went for the bling factor. I'm not saying the GTO is not a great car..or even a better car. To a majority of drivers the GTO would be far superior. The SRT4 is very raw and is purpose built. It is loud and rides stiff. Sacrifices almost all civility to be what it is. Where as the GTO cuddles is occupants with leather, power and vast options. It's a real nice place to be while on your way to a 13 second time slip. As nice as the GTO is, it doesnt hold a candle to the SRT4's bang for your buck when it comes to modifications (or purchase price). Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Based on what a friend of mine has done to his 2005 GTO with about $1200, I'd say that it is worth the 30WHP he experienced. However, It is still a big car and Racin' Jason might be right. However, that little four banger isn't gonna be as "durable" when you start squeezing more out of it... I know, I know "I'm not a turbo guy", but I live with a few and they are still trying to piece together a "durable" combo that'll withstand 100K miles on enough boost to offset the discplacement of a Chevy V8. You squeeze enough and that motor will pop, and from what I've read, the rods and rod bolts on the SRT aren't that robust. Then again, I'd not look at the GTO in the first place because of the weight. I'd look at... Ah, never mind. I've already GOT what I'd be looking at! The SRT is a nice little capable car. But at the end of the day, it's still a Neon, and you're just never gonna get some folks beyond that. It's like $30K Civics that are cranking out 350WHP... Nice and all, but it's still a wrong wheel drive Civic. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 well that's all well and good but I've never planned on 'squeezing' some insane amount of power out of my SRT anyways. People ARE getting good long term reliability out of them with good amounts of power IF they don't go crazy and do mostly crazy aftermarket mods. The blocks are actually proving to be pretty stout but it's that some of the OWNERS are retards who don't seem to believe in getting a good tune to make sure all that power their pushing is safe. Mopars stage 3 seems to be just as reliable as stock and there are people with well over 70,000 miles on the stock longblock running stage three putting out more than 300hp to the wheels and NO problems whatsoever. Obviously for the crazy guys running 400-500 whp I wouldn't expect the same kind of longevity, and actually the first weak link in the stock SRT longblock is not the rods or bolts it's the oil pump. Other than that stock internals have proven to put up with well over 400hp with a good tune and be plenty reliable. If I keep the SRT I'm not going to aim much higher than what I'm already at... somewhere in the 250-275 whp range is plenty for me in a sub 3000 lb car. And being as I plan on getting there with factory upgrades I expect the engine would remain plenty durable at that level. Stage 2 and some supporting mods like full exhaust would be plenty to get me there. My main concern is the transmission which some people have had funky problems with due to the dubious use of BRASS for some high wear parts. As far as considering other cars (lots of people suggesting C5's or Mustang Cobra's)... sure those cars are nice and yeah I'd love to have a Corvette in particular but buying a used car presents a whole new set of issues that don't apply to buying a new car. For instance... yeah I could probably pick up a used C5 for the same price as a new GTO, BUT, I'm going to be hit with a higher interest rate, and also used cars they usually want to keep the loan term shorter. Unfortunately, a $30,000 price tag will require I go with a longer term, probably 5 years, to keep the payments affordable. With some credit problems in the past, I don't expect I'd get any kind of reasonable interest rate on a used car unless I got lucky, whereas I did get pretty good interest rates on the two new cars I've just bought (given the credit situation). So I feel kinda limited here that I really would have to consider getting another NEW car to keep my payments and interest reasonable... of course, there's also the factor than when buying a used performance car... you new know, did the previous owner observe the break in period? Or did they thrash it right off the lot. Did they take care of their maintanance and did they really thrash the car overall? I'd rather have the car new and be sure it gets broken properly. So... still considering a GTO, for sure... but only if I can find a good deal on one. I've talked to a couple of people in other states that have seen new ones being offered as low as $27,000.... I'm gonna go thru Edmunds and Cars.com and see what I can come up with from dealerships over in Virginia. There is one dealership here in Oxnard (one hour away from me) that has three at $29,000... I want to talk to a salesman and see if they can be brought any lower. overall I'm still undecided what I want to do at this point... split pretty much 50/50 as far as if I want to keep this car or get into something else. It's really gonna come down to what kinda deal I can find... if the perfect car comes along for the perfect price I'm jumping ship for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naplesZ Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The SRT4 is definitely a better bang for your buck if you don't mind it being fwd. My question is can you take say $1500-2000 and fix majority of the issues that you had with the GTO? There not much you can do about the weight but what about the suspension and the shifter? From tirerack Koni sport cartridge fr-$155 each rear-$118-each H&R spring set-$224-set Eibach anti-roll kit $297 B&M short throw shifter-$197 Total-$1264 Baer claw front 14 in kit with rotors-$950.(For 18 in or larger. This might require new wheels) With the brakes it would be over $2k This is the same question I had when talk of the GT500 was going on. You can't really compare a stock GTO to a mildly modded SRT4 because your going to want to try and improve any car you have. I guess you would have to talk to a couple of people who have GTO's and have done similar mods to see If it made any difference. Then decide if the RWD V8 ride you would get is worth the extra money. http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp-click on the link that says "see how we beat the competition" are something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Bastaad, I don't know your financial situation, but the Credit unions I'm affiliated with treat used and new car loans the same. Same rate, same term lenght on the loan, and no issues. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 there are lots of great sports cars in $28k to $34k range ex honda s2000 subaru wrx sti,350z or g35,mitsu evo,or a low mile 04 zo6,or used porsche boxter.i think i would buy a zo6 becuase i find the high rpms of a smaller engine kind of annoying.had a honda s2000 out when i worked at my last job and liked it but it was like a very precise go kart and needed revs to run.test drove wrx and i thought the turbo to be very laggy and basically a stripped car with race car parts hung on it.havent drove 350z.or a rx8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.