mtcookson Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I think the KA is closer to 400 lbs. Surprisingly the VG30E(T) weighs a little less than the KA. The VQ30DE should be below 300 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_V Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums/thread/797.aspx KA=VQ's weight. Where did you get your info from? We need more people like allen. lol. ~Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I havn't had a tone of motors in varous Z cars like others here, so take what I say as philosophical, I'm not quite a realist yet... My ideal motor would be a 3-4L V8. Why V8 in particular, and in such a small displacement? Becuase 1) A V8 is usually the strongest bottom end for a V motor, and a V motor is one of the best ways to get compact power. Inline motors are tall, and even in OEM use they're slanted wich obviously shows that even the manufactures understand the downsides to a high weight balance 2) I'm not one who needs huge power, I enjoy cars the most when they feel well balanced and are actually usable for your application. You see, I'm not like alot of people here looking for 600+++ HP. I just want 300-400hp in a nible handling car that doesn't bring you suprises. Right now I'm putting an L28et in my car, for ONE reason. It's cheep and goes in with no hassle (car is a S130). For a future S30 project I'm looking into lots of options. One was the 1uz, but it's quite large for my liking. One of the other motors that's peaked my interest lately is the 5VZ toyota motor. It's around 185-190hp stock, but it's lowish compression (9.6:1) due to an optional TRD supercharger. Basic supercharged motors are around 265hp. This motor would reach my goals easily. But it has it's own hassles to overcome. In the end there's lots of motor options. I agree with johnc, don't let this whole thread become and argument. I have nothing against any motor. All motors have thier uses. Weather or not they fit my use is a different story. Most big cube motors have too much potential for my liking. Inline 6 motors are tough no doubt, but they can tend to make a Z nose heavy wich can kill handling resonce (though i know there's lots of guys out there with well handling L6 cars, i'm not saying against them). Then I4 motors just aren't my cup o' tea, and I've worked on/driven my fair share to actually know what they're like. Cheers everyone. Good thread methinks. I've enjoyed the discussion so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 IMO 200 hp in a 2000 lb car is better than 400 in a 4000 car even though power to weight is the same. Car responds better, easier to stop, better handling. If I could, I'd always go with a lighter set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I still think it shouldn't be too difficult to get an early Z, stripped, down to ~2000 or 2100 with an LS/T56 swap... How about 400 hp with 2000 lbs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsCoupe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I cant pick between one and the other. both engine types offer fun, but in completely different ways, with completely different feels. If i had the funds, id have one of each. for now ill troll until i can actually afford to get another car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 TomsCoupe... fence stradler:rolleyes: Just kidding:-D I know how you feel... you want kick-A$$ torque AND screaming high spins... but who wouldn't?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Well I chose the SR20DET because I've been building them for years now. I swapped to a Z from an S13, and transferred my parts over to the lighter chassis. I'm running the stock turbo, and I see full boost at 2500rpm or so, and the power climbs past 6000rpm. I'm pretty happy with a 3500rpm power band for now. It's a sweet daily driver... gets decent gas mileage, and its got probably 250rwhp on tap when you drop the hammer. There are several turbos available that maintain a lot of mid range power, such as the small GT turbos with T28 back ends. These turbos can spool fully in the 3000-3500rpm range, and make 350hp or more while running past 7000rpm. (I built one that made 363rwhp on stock internals with a fat power band, 12 second 2800 pound car - same setup in a 2300 pound car or so would kick ass) I'm just throwing some ideas out there, so you can consider everything thats available. FYI: it's not cheap to build a little 2 liter to make 350, 400hp. You need an entire fuel system and computer system, as well as a turbo big enough to push it... plus intercooler, etc... etc... The satisfaction is worth it to me, but may not be to others. So long as you keep turbo size within reason, the power band will be fat and the car will be fun to daily drive. Big turbos are great for drag racing, but can be annoying on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I think some guys are missing the point, when setting up the car, its NOT just the hp....its the HP to WEIGHT RATIO and how effectively you can apply it to the pavement, its having good brakes, good traction, and being in control, think thru ALL the components and how they work as a system EXAMPLE 9 lbs per hp and up is seldom fun to drive or responsive 8 lbs per hp, makes a nice street performance car 7 lbs per hp makes an exceptionally nice and responsive street car 6 lbs per hp makes a nice predictable race car, or an exceptional street car 5 lbs per hp or less makes an exceptionally nice and responsive race car http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/ http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipsaerodynamics.html yes you DO NEED a few things like a roll cage, blow proof bell houseing and excellent brakes, once you get into a serious car combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjuju Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 My personal choice is a light engine. I love my little straight six wonder. I wanted a z 'cause my mom had one, and I wanted a turbo for one reason; you're all going to laugh, but I wanted the blowoff valve sound. I found out in my research at zcar that the turbo would also allow me some great power with the turn of a dial, so I drove from 23 of the way north into washington to grant's pass, oregon, a biatch of a drive btw, to pick up my car. I drove that far because I couldn't find a z with t tops that could play that sound to me any closer than southern oregon. I think that low weight would be best; i seem to recall the z's won some award for racing at some point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I think it all depends on the car and what it is used for. The best solution is to have a very light chassis with a good power to weight ratio, like grumpy stated earlier. But it's not just weight, it's where the weight is. For example, take my 69 Camaro. It has a 355 that is a tick over 400chp(about 340whp), which is a fairly simple, powerfull N/A engine, but the car weighs almost 3500 lbs, it's a tank. Not only does that hinder straight line performance, but it hurts every other performance aspect as well; braking, cornering, fuel milleage, you get the point. Now enter this data into an E.T. calculator and you come up with a 12.59 @ 106 mph, fairly respectable for a 40 year old tank. But now say I've transplanted the Camaro's 355 into my Z31 which weighs about 3100 lbs; it now does a 12.15 @ 110 mph, an enormous improvment for such a simple mod (in concept). The v8 Z31>>>>>> http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108065&highlight=pics+z31+v8 Her's another scenario: I suddenly have a death-wish, so I drop the Camaro's 400 + hp small block into my yet unfinished hot rod project. I'm not sure of the exact weight of the final car yet so we will just estimate it to be 2000 lbs. This is where you can really see my point, now this simple street engine delivers race car performance; it goes a 10.50 @ 127 mph. And not only does straight line performance increase but so does everything else, the car becomes more fun to drive. Here's this work in progress>>>> http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=114405&highlight=vg30+powered+hot%2Frat+rod Obviously this experiment was a little extreme, but you get the point. Another thing that is sometimes overlooked is the fact that rotating mass is much more detrimental to performance than stationary mass. For example, instead of saving 25lbs with that shiny new fiberglass hood, save 25 lbs with a nice set of quality wheels and tires. That same 25 lbs will be multiplied many times over when the wheels begin turning. That is why you sometimes see cars loose wheel horsepower after they install larger diameter brakes, it's all about weight and its position. Also why they make aluminum driveshafts and light rods and pistons. The rotating mass concept is well used in the engine world but not so much on the rest of the car. To answer the engine question I would say if maximum performance in all respects was your goal, then: 1. Must have forced induction and/or nitrous if applicable. Tha fact that you can make a 3 liter engine act like a 6 liter with one bar, a 9 liter with two bars, and so on and so on, is a no brainer, the power to weight ratio of the engine just went through the roof. You get the smaller physical dimensions of say a 3 liter engine compared to a 7 liter engine, which makes it lighter, and easier to transplant/work on.This also can help create a car with racing performance that still retains street manners. 2. Use a V or flat engine configuration. The V engine configuration is about as compact as you're gonna get, and not only is it short, but it is really low, which keeps the weight towards the ground, which is where you want it. Also, try and use aliminum egine components whenever posible. 3. Engine position. Engine positioning is also very important, you could have the lightest engine ever made but if it was mounted on the roof the car would probly have pretty mad body lean. As stated earlier you want the engine far back, towards the center of the car, and low, as close to the ground that is practical. With an engine more towards the center of the car the front to rear weight bias gets closer to 50/50 (to a certain extent) which is ideal for handling. This also adds weight to the rear tires which helps straight line performance. Jason has shown us the potential of the VG30, his engine has an extreme power to weight ratio. Thats why I'm using the VG in my hot rod project instead of the generic small block chevy, it's light and has huge power potential, just what I was looking for. Plus I just like to be different. I'm finally done now, hope I didn't waste too much of your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Want a high power:weight ratio? Here ya' go... http://www.ntahc.org/modifiedhealeys/Photos/126Marian/Marian.htm This Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite originally had a 950CC engine... or thereabouts. Now look at it. It's all grown up :^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.INSANE Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Nice Post ALF but ive yet to seen a Z with a flat type motor in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Want a high power:weight ratio? Here ya' go... http://www.ntahc.org/modifiedhealeys/Photos/126Marian/Marian.htm This Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite originally had a 950CC engine... or thereabouts. Now look at it. It's all grown up :^) Wow, very impressive. But it still weighs in at 2650 with gas and a person. So it's probly around 2400 pounds. Pretty heavy for how tiny it is. I bet it still goes like mad. Big phat tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Hey CLIFTON, I've been gathering all my parts for my 7MTswap when I retire from the MIL. in 3.5 months +- a few days,hours,seconds but who's counting. I hope you're not saying I would be better off using the 1991 5.0L I have sitting on my garage floor as it will be a street car only. I know you can't make this call for me but do you have regrets concerning the 7MT as a daily driver vs a 5.0L with It's low end torque. Thanks I was happy with my set up but I went with a larger turbo and now miss the torque I had at lower rpms, although the power is great once it's going. The torque isn't bad but without boost small motors aren't stump pullers. A larger engine with the same turbo (T72) and power potential, I will have a larger usable power band. Concerning a 7M and 5.0. If they are both equally prepard, both turboed, the 5.0 will make more power and would be a better choice IMO, it's the dispacement thing. A completely stock 7M (stock turbo, fuel, ect) with just a little more boost is good for mid 350rwhp easily. 450-500rwhp with a slightly larger turbo and fuel and still pretty decent spool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I talked to a guy who has a Lotus Seven replica. He has an LS1 in his little 1500 pound car. He races it regularly against guys with 1100 pound Lotus Sevens with the smaller/lighter high-revving high performance four cylinder motors. He says he wouldn't swap for a million bucks. He has such a broader/higher torque band that he doesn't even have to shift coming out of the apexes to beat his competition. He can hear the other guys shifting like crazy... fighting... to keep their little forced induction motors in their power bands. He beats them regularly even with a car that is fully one-third heavier than the others. He does fall behind at the apexes due to his heavier vehicle but beats the crap out of them coming away and into the straight aways. More cubes is better, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtcookson Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums/thread/797.aspx KA=VQ's weight. Where did you get your info from? We need more people like allen. lol. ~Alex Sport Compact Car I believe... must've been with all of the accessories on because I believe they said something like 403 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Let me add this..the LIGHTEST way to get more cubic inches is to turbocharge. This applies to ANY motor. A 2.8 liter at 14psi becomes about a 5.6 liter. adding about 70lbs A 350ci motor at 14psi becomes roughly 700ci adding about 100lbs IMHO, paradise is a well built aluminum block V8 with Twin Intercooled Turbos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 cygnusx1... True enough and your point is more than valid. However, some just don't like turbos... me included. I'm not sure why... maybe I'm just old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I never liked turbos either until I bought my WRX. Then I just had to add one to my Z. However, I have never owned a V8. It all depends on what you do with the car and what you are used to. Turbo's definitely have a different "gas pedal" vs "butt dyno" feel than big cubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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