auxilary Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 my floorpans and rails were arced, so there was no good way to straighten them out to make the baddog rails fit... so instead, the car was dropped on the baddog rail to make the rail arc... and welded in. also, here's a quick update of my exhaust while i'm at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 That looks exceptional Aux!! Thats my next project also. Great job man.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 So did they cut out the pans just enough to weld in those supports? Or were they just welded on to the bottom of the pan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Very nice. That's how the engineers in Japan should have done it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Looks good...thanks for posting the pic's. Installing Bad Dog rails is definitely on my list of things I need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Good looking install! Makes me wish I had done something else with my rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john kosmatka Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Looks great, I think I might get a set for my car. Anybody know if the 240z rails baddog sells will fit over the 280z factory rails. It looks like the 280z rails they sell dont tie into the rear subframe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Looks great, I think I might get a set for my car. Anybody know if the 240z rails baddog sells will fit over the 280z factory rails. It looks like the 280z rails they sell dont tie into the rear subframe? Yes, the 240 rails should fit over the stockers. The 280 rails are stock replacements, what we're looking at here is the subframe connectors, not just stock replacements. I don't know if they make a 280 subframe connector. Alex, it looks like a nice install, but the one issue I have is the full seam weld. It would actually be stronger if it were stitched in. Regardless, I'm sure it will be fine for your purposes and it looks like you found a shop that does good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roostmonkey Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 As of now, Baddog does not offer a 280 sub rail connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 As of now, Baddog does not offer a 280 sub rail connector. Man, I'd lend him my car for a pair of those. The guy lives two towns over from me... Im seriously going to ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Alex, it looks like a nice install, but the one issue I have is the full seam weld. It would actually be stronger if it were stitched in. Regardless, I'm sure it will be fine for your purposes and it looks like you found a shop that does good work. This seems counter intuitive to me. Why is this true? I do not doubt the fact, just hoping for an explanation. Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 There are others with more knowledge who can probably answer this better than I can, but here's what I've been told. The area immediately surrounding a weld gets very hot and becomes more brittle. As an experiment you can try welding two pieces of sheet metal together then bend them until they break. It won't break at the weld, it will break around it. When you seam weld a long part like this you end up with a brittle section all the way down the seam. If you stitch weld you end up with no one long seam that is brittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 when you seam/stitch weld, you leave some play room for chassis flex that is necessary. Think of it this way... if you fully welded every frame component on a car, and took it to a track, you'd have cracks all over the place despite the car being very stiff. jon's right about seam welding, and I should've asked the shop to stitch weld it, but as he said, it won't cause problems for me because my car won't be track only balls out racing every weekend. It won't see that much stress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Stitch or skip welding is mainly used to reduce heat input, warpage, cost, and time. A properly done full length weld will be stronger the a properly done stitch weld but its way overkill for a sheet metal structure. If done improperly it can lead to cracking as Jon mentioned above. The cost in time and consumables does not make up for the strength increase gained by doing a full weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Stitch or skip welding is mainly used to reduce heat input, warpage, cost, and time. A properly done full length weld will be stronger the a properly done stitch weld but its way overkill for a sheet metal structure. If done improperly it can lead to cracking as Jon mentioned above. The cost in time and consumables does not make up for the strength increase gained by doing a full weld. Interesting. I have baddogs sitting in my garage waiting to be installed. So how long should each stitch be at what intervals? Please excuse my ignorance, I'm not a welder so I will have a buddy do this for me. Or would plug welding them be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z1975 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 When I installed my frame rails from Bad Dogs I used the stitch method, but also welded them up full on the outside and most of the way on the inside. I stitched welded because the metal was getting to hot and was warping if you went more than 2 inches at a time ... so I went back and forth from frame rail to frame rail to allow the metal time to settle between welds. I only stitch welded the inside cause I was having a hell of a time getting under my car on my jack stands. I just used some a boat load of silicon to seal up the frame rails and later went over it all in Por-15 then Herculiner Bed Liner ... the bottom of my car is quite rust proof now. Also, be sure to jack up the car on the frame rail to make sure it is settled well. if you just weld it up free hanging with someone holding it and then raise the car on a lift it will warp the metal. Here is a question to you all. The original frame rails had a hole in them, I presume to allow water to drain out. The Bad Dog ones don't have this? Would this be a good thing to add or just leave it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 When I installed my frame rails from Bad Dogs I used the stitch method, but also welded them up full on the outside and most of the way on the inside. I stitched welded because the metal was getting to hot and was warping if you went more than 2 inches at a time ... so I went back and forth from frame rail to frame rail to allow the metal time to settle between welds. I only stitch welded the inside cause I was having a hell of a time getting under my car on my jack stands. I just used some a boat load of silicon to seal up the frame rails and later went over it all in Por-15 then Herculiner Bed Liner ... the bottom of my car is quite rust proof now. Also, be sure to jack up the car on the frame rail to make sure it is settled well. if you just weld it up free hanging with someone holding it and then raise the car on a lift it will warp the metal. Here is a question to you all. The original frame rails had a hole in them, I presume to allow water to drain out. The Bad Dog ones don't have this? Would this be a good thing to add or just leave it be? I put holes in mine. I'm also going to use those holes to spray Zero Rust in there to seal them from the elements. If you look none of the frame rails on a Z is watertight, so I think trying to make the SFCs watertight isn't really necessary or practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 . Also, be sure to jack up the car on the frame rail to make sure it is settled well. if you just weld it up free hanging with someone holding it and then raise the car on a lift it will warp the metal. I don't understand what you are saying here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 he means that you put a jack under the baddog frame rail, and lift the car up with it. this puts pressure on the rail, and squishes it flat to the floor. then you weld it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I drilled holes in the rails on the sides and used sheet metal screws to pull the floor down to the SFC. Worked great. Pics in here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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