vg30dett weight vs vh45dett weight

[Guest Swifty Devil]

You are absolutely correct. The aluminum block will not be 3 times thicker to make up for lack of strength, (I don't think I eluded to that in my previous two posts?). What I was trying to say over and over and over and will say AGAIN, it will be least 1 ½ to 2 times thicker in most areas of the block. The weight savings of an aluminum block are real and not in question here and never have been in question.

 

 

WHAT I have been saying is that weight savings is NOT as substantial as what the general public initially thinks when they think of aluminum blocks vs iron blocks! (How many more ways do I have to describe this?) Again, the iron block is a shorter V-6 block. The aluminum block is a LONGER V-8 block. By sheer volume of material in the V-8 block it should be heavier, but it is a lighter material, that should offset the weight difference, or if there is a difference in weight of the blocks alone, either way, do you guys really think that the there will be 100+ lbs or even 50+ lbs difference in the just the bare blocks alone? If so, you have to start sharing the drugs you are using because they are really good…

 

 

 

Ok, IF just the bare aluminum VH block is lighter than the bare VG iron block, and for arguments sake, lets say the longer larger VH45DE block is 20 lbs lighter! (I strongly doubt it is even close to that), NONE of you guys have explained HOW or WHY adding two larger pistons, two more con rods, a longer crankshaft, longer and heavier heads with all the goodies that go into feeding those 2 extra cylinders, 2 separate timing chains, cast timing covers, could conceivably be lighter? Think about it guys. How can 8 pistons, 8 rods, 1/3 longer crankshaft, 1/3 longer/heavier heads, etc be lighter than 6 smaller pistons, 6 rods, a shorter crank, lighter heads, lighter single timing belt with stamped tin and plastic timing cover? Every one seems stuck on that aluminum block band wagon, but NO one has shown how all these extra parts that the VH45DE is packing around could possibly help keep that aluminum block weight savings from being canceled out or show how those EXTRA parts are helping make that bigger engine even lighter yet? C'mon guys, I'm giving you 20lbs that I truly don't believe are even there...

 

 

Sorry Mack, As for the SBF vs L-6, that is apples and oranges. Even the SBC with aluminum heads and other lightweight goodies can be lighter than the L-6. The inline 6 cylinder vs a V-engine is and apple to orange comparison as by design they are way different animals. This a multi valve 4 cam V-6 vs multi valve 4 cam V-8 comparison which are very similar in design and architecture.

 

 

i understand the more moving parts and i know im going out on a limb here

but the vg30dett is a heavy engine. and many ls1 swaps have been done and proved to be 50lb lighter atleast.

 

thats a 5.7litre aluminium v8! ill keep into context the fact that its not DOHC but it still has pushrods.

 

and i can swap the chain setup for a belt setup as used from the 94+ vh45de

 

i know im being stubborn but i know many who cant lift the heads of a vg30dett with their hand. they are heavy bitches.

 

i can agree is heavy but manual states 505lb (from what ive got from search results) where i seen 550-600lb from the vg30dett

 

i dont think theres much in it

but i reckon the vh45 would be lighter lol! such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ conundrum i dont want to add weight to a z32 i wanna reduce it, but vh45de can get 380hp out of it and is a much cheaper route than an ls1

[Gollum]

DOHC vs pushrod is a completely different beast. And example would be the fact that fords 4.6 mod motor is MUCH MUCH larger than the 5.0 motor. AND the 4.6 mod motor is an extremely tight fit in a Z, where as the LS1 fits nicely.

 

Apples to Oranges really.

[RTz]

[BRAAP]

i understand the more moving parts and i know im going out on a limb here

but the vg30dett is a heavy engine. and many ls1 swaps have been done and proved to be 50lb lighter atleast.

 

thats a 5.7litre aluminium v8! ill keep into context the fact that its not DOHC but it still has pushrods.

 

and i can swap the chain setup for a belt setup as used from the 94+ vh45de

 

i know im being stubborn but i know many who cant lift the heads of a vg30dett with their hand. they are heavy bitches.

 

i can agree is heavy but manual states 505lb (from what ive got from search results) where i seen 550-600lb from the vg30dett

 

i dont think theres much in it

but i reckon the vh45 would be lighter lol! such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ conundrum i dont want to add weight to a z32 i wanna reduce it, but vh45de can get 380hp out of it and is a much cheaper route than an ls1

 

Ok. I’m really glad you are keeping a good attitude over all this, stubbornness and all,

 

For starters, ALL the VH45DE engines, ’90-’96, are chain drive, none were belt drive. (Even the VK45DE is chain drive, was introduced in 2002 and is based on the same architecture as the VQ engine family). My ’96 VH45DE is chain drive. Wherever you got that info stating that the VH45DE came with belt driven cams at any point in its production run is a bad source. Just go back and look at that picture of the VH45DE Timing CHAIN arrangement from the service manual I posted previously. That is from the ’96 service manual. FWIW, to convert a VH45DE to belt drive would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Not only is it going to require extreme amounts of custom fabrication to seal up the engine, add belt idlers, etc, but the only real gain will be slightly lighter weight. The Chains are ZERO maintenance, and due to the independent cylinder bank cam drive design, the region between the upper portion of the valley between the cylinder heads is clear, i.e. no chain or belt running across the valley between the two heads, (not that I have been eyeballing that specifically to bolt on an Eaton M-112 Super charger in a low profile position or anything…)

 

As for the weights of the heads, yes the VG30DE heads are heavy pigs, now doubt. ALL twin cam 4 valve heads are heavy pigs no matter who manufactured them, i.e. Honda, Nissan Toyota, Ford, BMW, etc… Now trust me on this, the VH45DE heads are noticeably heavier than the VG30DE heads! I have packed both around the machine shop.

 

Just curious, how are you planning to get 380 HP from the VH45DE for less money than the LS-1? The VH45DE is rated at 278 crank HP. My ’96 Q-45 put down 230-240 to the wheels at a dyno day last, year. (If I can only find that dyno sheet to get the exact number). Any how, I do know that 312 crank HP from the VH45DE is doable with bolt ons, (Stillen stuff), and I’d venture to guess that 320 crank HP is also doable N/A. I honestly don’t see how 380 HP from the VH45DE can be one N/A, unless you spend LOTS of money. It will take some form of power adder like super charger, Turbo or N2O to get 380+ HP from the VH45DE.

 

I am pretty sure you are referring to the VK45DE. The VK45DE came with 340 HP stock, so 380 HP N/A from the VK45DE sounds totally realistic. As for being cheaper than the LS-1? Hmm. Depends on your source for the engines I guess, though I would bet that a used VK45DE can be picked up for a littel less than a used LS-1.

 

Now if I can just sell a few parts off my ’96 Q-45, i.e., doors, interior, etc, I will use that money to purchase a nice digital crane scale and will weigh all the engines we have, and other various heavy items as well. Especially my VH45DE a VG30DE, VG30DETT, VG30E, L-28, LS-1, traditional SBC, etc…

[OlderThanMe]

Won't someone just pull out the bathroom scales? Good grief...

[Overkill Z]

looks awsome....if u think u did too much...u did juuuuusttt right lol

[Guest Swifty Devil]

vh45de pretty much bolts up to the z32 drivetrain from what i know.

 

i have been told the vk45de is lighter unsure about the vh45de and belt drive i must be thinking of the vh41 or vk cause i remember reading that somewhere that chain drive can be swapped out for belt drive but doesnt seem worth it.

 

ive come to the consensus that the vh45de is heavier than the vg30de

but i highly doubt heavier than the vg30dett.

 

v8s are just beastly and i dont want a mongrel old engine in a Z and nissan v8s are much easier to slot in.

 

the vh45de actually had more like 300hp stock

but u know the japanese power wars.

 

anyone have any clues on the weight of a vk45?

or the ability to bolt it up to a z32 transmission

[Boosted 70z]

No manual tranny bolts up to the vh45de, however there are a few adaptor plates out there to fit it to the Z32 tranny and I think theres one for the mk3 supra tranny.

 

All vh motors had timing chains, the earier U.S. versions (90-93) had a single chain and the later versions and JDM vh41he's had dual chain set ups. The earlier vh45 had sodium filled valves, vtc (through 95, in 96 it couldn't meet emissions and was dropped), and more aggressively tuned ECUs too. So and earlier motor will put out a bit more power than the newer motors (like BRAPPs.) Oh, and the vtc was activated below 4600 rpms, so it doesn't have that much of an affect on the top hp, but gives the older motors two hp peaks.

 

I may had been guessing too much about weight difference, but I still can't find a verifiable figure for the vg. I still think that the vh is lighter, maybe not by much, but at the least they're about the same weight.

[marcg]

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but I have accurately weight both of these engines prior to starting my 450Z project. I used a precise calibrated lifting scale which was hooked up between the engine and the hoist. Hare are the numbers I got:

300ZXTT engine was weight as a complete engine, including a/c comp, stock flwheel/clutch, turbos, intake etc but w/o alt, wiring harness and ps = 625lbs

VH45DE complete with harness and auto bell housing but w/o alt, ps, a/c and torque converter = 460 lbs

240Z engine w/o alt, air pump, dist = 350lbs

[Guest sjohn280]

Sounds good to me.

[Pete84]

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but I have accurately weight both of these engines prior to starting my 450Z project. I used a precise calibrated lifting scale which was hooked up between the engine and the hoist. Hare are the numbers I got:

300ZXTT engine was weight as a complete engine, including a/c comp, stock flwheel/clutch, turbos, intake etc but w/o alt, wiring harness and ps = 625lbs

VH45DE complete with harness and auto bell housing but w/o alt, ps, a/c and torque converter = 460 lbs

240Z engine w/o alt, air pump, dist = 350lbs

Wow, that is a greater difference than I was expecting.

[Guest Swifty Devil]

so should i slot in the vh45de ;D

 

just wondering whether to keep my z32 auto trans, and chuck in the SAW kit (shift at will paddleshift) kit as it has instant shifts or chuck in a z32 manual tranny with 4.11 diff ratio.

[BRAAP]

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but I have accurately weight both of these engines prior to starting my 450Z project. I used a precise calibrated lifting scale which was hooked up between the engine and the hoist. Hare are the numbers I got:

300ZXTT engine was weight as a complete engine, including a/c comp, stock flwheel/clutch, turbos, intake etc but w/o alt, wiring harness and ps = 625lbs

VH45DE complete with harness and auto bell housing but w/o alt, ps, a/c and torque converter = 460 lbs

240Z engine w/o alt, air pump, dist = 350lbs

 

WOW! I’m not going to dispute your testing or the equipment used, (btw, nice car Marc).

 

I’m not going to say that your measurements are wrong or going to dispute this any more publicly, though I am going to voice my “opinion” on this one last time as I am still not seeing this, especially the gross difference between the two, and that gross difference being opposite of what seems logical to me, especially the VG30DETT weighing close to twice that of an L-series. Something just doesn’t seem right there, but that is what you measured, soo… I wont argue my point any further.

 

 

If everyone else “likes” those numbers and wants to believe them, great, (I for one would LOVE for those number to be true for several reasons), but personally, that big of a weight gap with the knowledge I have of the these two engines… Until I measure this for myself, I’m holding on to the theory that VH45DE long block being heavier that the VG30DE long block. Marc has posted some hard to dispute proof.

 

When I do get the scales, I will post my weighing results with pics and all the details of what was included, not included, with and without various components, and I hope that I am wrong in my theory and that my results will only back up what you guys are claiming and have weighed yourselves.

 

 

Just for giggles, doesn’t a Big Block Chevy with Iron heads weigh around 600 lbs? If that is case, then a N/A Big Block vs. a comparable HP boosted obese V-6 with no substantial weight penalty and easier maintenance sounds like a win win to me.. Then just add 10lbs of boost to that 454!! YEE HAAA…

 

 

Till I weigh them myself, BRAAP… … . .. OUT!

[Guest sjohn280]

Wait, wasn't the question of weight between the VG30DETT and the VH45DE? You guys are confusing me, which is not that uncommon.

[G.I.jonas]

Wait, wasn't the question of weight between the VG30DETT and the VH45DE? You guys are confusing me, which is not that uncommon.

 

Yes i also posted about that earlier in the thread,it definately makes a difference.

[marcg]

A few years ago I rebuilt my VG30DETT and it totaly floored the machine shop operator when he got the short block to rebore it. He said that the empty block weighted as much as a complete GM 2.8lt V6 short block! No weight scales, just gut experience. so it's not that accurate, but answers why this engine weights so much. We concluded that the block was probably made of some high density nodular iron for strenght. Lets not forget that the VG30DETT exhaust manifolds and turbos add a significant amount of weight as well.

[Mack]

some of the difference can be made up in the fact that the VG had the AC on it and the VH did not, AC compressors are heavy. Also, the VG had the flywheel and clutch assembly, which can add quite a few pounds, while the VH just had a trans bell housing (which is aluminum, if Im not mistaken) the wiring harness is neglibable(sp?) as I said, the turbos and manifolds will make a bit of difference. especially considering you have 2 of them and heavy cast manifolds to go with each one.

 

Even with all of this taken into account, I would say that from Marcg's results, the VH woiuld still weigh less than a VG by oprobably a good 50lbs.

[e_racer1999]

^mack, that's what i was going to say. these figures are apples and oranges. the difference between which accessories, etc, are on which will cause fluctuation. if we know the weight of these accessories (a lot easier to find than the weight of the blocks) then we can come up with accurate comparison figures.

 

Jason

[(goldfish)]

But they are good facts to start working from. We know what was and was not attached. Nice detail.

[260DET]

I know that the VG30DETT bare block weighs somewhere around 110 pounds, so the complete engine is supposed to weigh almost six times as much? Put it another way, the complete engine comprises other components that weigh almost as much as five blocks