Thumper Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I've done a few mods to my gto and wanted to get it tuned. I had two options go to a halfway known tuner and get his tune flashed and then run it down the track (for $250) or go to a well known tuner and get it dyno tuned ($425). So I decided to go to the well known tuner and get it dyno tuned. This is what he did. Strapped the car to the dyno, ran a baseline pull, loaded up a file and did some editing (5-10minutes max), then ran another pull, then ran a third pull with a scanner to watch the timing and stuff and called it a day. Never hooked up a wideband and never played with settings:fmad:. When I told him this is not what I would call a dyno tune but a dyno load he started to spout well i've done tons of your cars with the same mods so I don't need to do your vehicle. Then I pointed out that every vehicle is different and that what works on one vehicle won't work on another. Then he started to say that the tune he put in was the safest yet most powerful tune he was willing to do without headers or cam. (aka maybe trying to sell me stuff) In the end he did say he would give it to me for free but I was not ok with it so I gave him the $250 the other guy would have charged me for loading a tune. What do you guys think was I in the right to ask for a real tune or wrong because he had so much experience? The thing that annoys me the most is I don't know what my afr's are, my car is popping upon decel just as much if not more(a problem with gto's) and I know my car is not optimize just improved. The good thing is he did pick up 10hp and 10lb-tq everywhere and close to 25 at readline. This is normal for this car if not under. People have seen close to 20-30 peak from a stock gto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Our shop that we go to charges $60.00 for two pulls then $20.00 each pull after that. He hooks up the probe in the exhaust that measures the afr. He does two pulls back to back, then we see where we are at. I would if he olny did 3 pulls and wanted to charge $450.00 then he is wrong unless he did a lot of adjusting for you. When we dynoed our car he just ran the test and he gave us some ideas, we did the work. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I personally think you should have asked more questions before the tune. Also, he should have know that you were not going to be cool with a quicky for 425.00. Dosen't matter how many he's done you still want to feel like you got your moneys worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I would never dyno my car without wideband period. On any car with mods the afr readings are so important that my previous Dyno shop would terminate a run with extreme afr readings. You were F***** WITHOUT A KISS IMO. BTW I've had 7 tuning dyno sessions. LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 My idea of a REAL tune is to use an RPM locking dyno, lock in every 1000 RPM's and go through about 5-10 load points at each rpm while dialing in the AFR's, timing, dwell...etc. for max safe power and torque at every point. Then road test and repeat if needed. Maybe I am an idealist because I have never been to a dyno with a tuneable car. If I was a crew chief, I would expect no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Over here at Solidtechnology, you get dyno tune plus strip tuning with a wideband for $400. Seriously, I think you got ripped as some people just don't really know what the hell they are doing. Just to give you a rundown on the dsm tuning. Baseline pull on the dyno. Editing, 3 more dyno pulls with editing. Street driving with editing 4 strip pulls with editing. Parameters recorded, AFR, timing, fuel, IAT before and after intercooler, water temp, egt's, boost. All recorded on a CD and given to my friend! Car made 600fwhp, ran 11.50 at 126 in a 3500lb car at race weight, but also had the tuner sitting in the passenger seat. Big guy, 6'4, probably another 220lb or so. Do the math on that one. Motor could use more timing, but intercooler had reached it's limit. Boost could have gone up as well, but with the intercooler, it was a wash. A gt42r turbo is supposed to support 600fwhp and it certainly did. Here we are several months later and the car still screams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Man I live in the wrong part of the country. Last dyno session I had was for $450 and all I got out of it was one partial pull because the fuel pump wasn't able to keep up. So I got billed for strapping the car down, a base map that was useless, and one partial pull. Talk about pissed off! Now I'm hesitant on going for another tuning session because I don't want to be ripped off again. Are there any reputable tuning facilities around Northern NJ that will accept an old turbo Datsun with a TEC? Sheesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I personally think you should have asked more questions before the tune. Also, he should have know that you were not going to be cool with a quicky for 425.00. Dosen't matter how many he's done you still want to feel like you got your moneys worth. Actually I did ask alot of questions. I told him about the other guy I was thinking about going to. I also asked him why aren't you hooking up a wideband and he said he didn't have to because he will give it as much fuel as need to make the most power. So I said oh you are going to do a pull add/remove fuel and run another and he said yes. Then he didn't do it. I've tuned 5 or so vehicles using megasquirt so i'm not stupid on tuning my self, but I am knew to someone tuning my vehicle. Wasn't sure what it would involve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Well I went and did another dyno at another shop with a wideband and here is what they were. Way too much fuel probably losing atleast 10hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Looks like she goes somewhat rich for a N/A application.. Isnt 12.3- 12.5 the best AFR for N/A applications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Here is the dyno itself. Red is first run green is second run no cool down. I just wanted to see the afrs. This is on a dynopak. On the dynojet I had 360hp and 360tq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Looks like she goes somewhat rich for a N/A application.. Isnt 12.3- 12.5 the best AFR for N/A applications? For this mildly modified vehicle i've heard 13:1 is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 jesus, your AFR's are all over the place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 You deffinetyl got hosed at that first dyno. My buddy got his 350ZT dyno tuned for $120! That included complete print outs with AFR's, HP and TQ. It took they dyno operators 5 pulls to get it dialed in while adjusting his fuel controller. Another buddy got his SRT-4 done for $80 same thing but we did the tuning and it also took 5 pulls. No way would I have paid $450 for that or even $250 for what you got. A print out with HP numbers does nothing for me unless I know its safe with the AFR's and still putting out max power. Sounds like the second place was much better. Did you tell that place about the first one? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDrifter Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 From what I have been currently learning...and Im not saying that this is for sure, but if it were me I would like to see those AFR's running between 12.0 and 12.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Another thing to note, is that afr sensors that go up your exhaust pipe won't read completely true if you've got a CAT installed. That's why a 'Test Pipe' is called such, they're designed to tune on. Now that THAT is cleared up, I can't believe he didn't at least hook a wideband up to it. He runs a dyno AND tunes, it's his freakin job to do it. When I eventually tune my car on a SMOG machine (very low load, but will do the job) it WILL be done with a wideband, courtesy of the strict CA smog machines. That shows the low quality of this tune you got man. Those AFR ratios shouldn't be jumping around like that either imo. Looks like the ECU is still guessing quite a bit. I wouldn't be bringing my car back to that guy myself. Just my 02. cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Here's a Dyno run before I switched to my 195 AFR head package. Notice the AFR plot. LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Man I live in the wrong part of the country. Last dyno session I had was for $450 and all I got out of it was one partial pull because the fuel pump wasn't able to keep up. So I got billed for strapping the car down, a base map that was useless, and one partial pull. Talk about pissed off! Now I'm hesitant on going for another tuning session because I don't want to be ripped off again. Are there any reputable tuning facilities around Northern NJ that will accept an old turbo Datsun with a TEC? Sheesh Not the wrong side of the country, but maybe the wrong side of the Mason/Dixon line. LOL! There is a shop in Baltimore that is called F body Central. They did my dyno tuning. I had a similar problem with a faulty fuel pump. They didn't charge me for the strap down or the time they spent. I went back a week later and they strapped it down, pulled my O2 sensor and plugged theirs into the bung, they did several pulls to determine the baseline, did a bunch of adjusting of the A/F ratios and did a few more pulls, then a little more A/F adjusting and then a few more pulls. THey guys name is Brett and he knows LS series motors. He also set did some code resets and reflashed the ECu from Auto to 6 speed. It did cost $425 but the car ran like a different car afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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