Guest havoc Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Who are you talking to? Quote the text you are refering to maybe? im not talking to anyone. i found it somewhere else and found it funny. i copy/pasted it. sorry for the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 In that case I agree that hp/lb isn't the most useful specification for an engine, but HP/car weight definately is. That is where the high HP of the LS1 would shine, plus the potential to make more power. As I said though, if one is willing to spend, a Buick or an all aluminum Ford 5.0 would be a light high powered route. Wonder if that 326lb is including flywheel and clutch? Most of the LS series actually has a better power to weight ratio then the F20C and F22C, but if you look at it in the car then things become a bit clearer. Say 1900lb Z with out engine, just for fun. With LS1 - 2397lb: 146hp per 1,000lbs With F20C - 2226lb: 108hp per 1,000lbs Okay say the LS1 has a heavier transmission too just for kicks, still isn't going to make the 35% difference back, never mind the torque. Yes 170lb difference is alot, but not when you have an extra 35% useable (not talking about 1500hp vs 2225hp here) more power out of the box, never mind the 400hp, 430hp, 505hp versions. Also if it was an automatic LS1 it would weigh in the 450lb range as well. I could see an argument being made for the I4 if the car was purely for very tight auto crosses though, maybe. Obviously there are pluses and minuses to every engine setup and ultimately people choose to do what they do because they like THAT engine. There isn't anything wrong with any way. Heck, my swap weighs more then the F20C and has less horsepower, but I am content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CArFAn Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Has any actually work began on this talked about swap or is it still all talk? -not a shoot down just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.INSANE Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Has any actually work began on this talked about swap or is it still all talk?-not a shoot down just wondering This has came up a few times in the forums but I've yet to see any put there thoughts into action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z2000 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 This has came up a few times in the forums but I've yet to see any put there thoughts into action As soon as my RB sells I can get the f20c and the project will be underway. Its not all talk this time... I will post pics as soon as I get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple B Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 i have seen a f22 in an S13 with a nice turbo set up but it did not make alot of power or torque. should be an intresting swap though. hope you like fabrication work because you will be doing a ton of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemac Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 you know how much hp it was making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 im going to agree with havoc. i wouldn't use "engine weight" as a comparison between other cars, cause when it comes down to it, it's what the engine is going into that really matters most when deciding on parts based on weight. That's like taking a Hayabusa engine and saying its horsepower to weight ratio is infinitely better than the LS1 or the F2XC engines... put that engine in a Z and watch it be as fast as a factory L28E...... probably 3/4 of the torque too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadytrixta1 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I actually am in the process of thinking through this swap or possibly my SR in a Z...I miss my ZX and want another one! I have a friend doing a 2J swap in his S2 and he is willing to trade my JDM GSR and turbo kit for his F22C drivetrain.Now im trying to decide if i would be happy with it or not...It wont be the fastest but I think it would be a quick, good handling, Reliable, fun to drive car...Of course on the other hand I could just put my SR in it and have fun, but then be left with an S14 shell. The F22's are potent motors but only on boost, there are plenty of them around Tampa with 450+hp on stock bottom ends of course turbo kits for these motors aren't cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvErMiNd Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I owned a 2001 s2000 and it was pretty quick for the 6 speed 2860 lbs car....4.10 fd I think. Anyway...no torque. I own a 240z w/ a l28et and um....man you should stay nismo. The f20c is impressive, but it's meant to be NA and turbo applications are extremely expensive and you pretty much have to build the whole thing to turbo it past say 400 hp. The gas consumption isn't great either and the 30 mpg is bs. I've turboed a friend's s2000 and it was a 2000, but we had so many problems and drawbacks with the electronics and tuning that I wouldn't have done it myself, I would've hung it up and sold it. If you are looking for a forced induction option on a f20c, I suggest you supercharge it. Aside from all this, the best 4 cyl option I'd say is a sr engine imho. oh and um...I have a f20 transmission and a complete block and I did not read through all these pages of posts so sorry if I repeated...lazy. -OM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I've been doing a lot of power curve comparisons lately, and I think if you wanna go with the F20C go for it. Just know what you're getting into (which it seems you do). It's not gonna drive like a muscle car, it's gonna drive like a RWD honda. When you punch the gas under 3500 it's going to sound like it's dying on you, and you're going to be pouting money into this swap to have a car with the power/weight ratio near the 03 mustang cobra, with no room for improvement. If a car that fast makes you happy, I'm 100% behind you and want to see this swap done! Just make sure you use the honda tranny, and get the biggest gears you can find. I'd consider 4.11 minimum imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I think the F20C would make a great motor for a track car that weighed near 2000lbs. They can make 250whp very easily. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvErMiNd Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I think the F20C would make a great motor for a track car that weighed near 2000lbs. They can make 250whp very easily. Justin A stock f20c will put AT MOST 205 whp or so. How is it easy to squeeze out 50 more in an all ready tuned out engine? There's a thread on s2ki.com dedicated to attempting to get this engine at 230whp and it's hard for sure. 250 = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I owned a 2001 s2000. Anyway...no torque. Aside from all this, the best 4 cyl option I'd say is a sr engine imho. -OM An SR20de has less torque (30ft/lbs less) than a F20c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 An SR20de has less torque (30ft/lbs less) than a F20c If hes talking about an sr20det like id expect him to, all it takes is a simple boost controller to change this That said i much prefer the idea of an F20 or F22 in a zcar, Just imagine it with ITBs. Or slap on one of the well known super charger kits and push 300 whp hp. Or go even further and turbo the bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Of coarse a turbo SR would have more torque but n/a too n/a the FC is a much better engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Yea let's compare apples to apples here. The F20C is NA, and if you wanted to rebuild it with lower compression pistons I'm sure it could compare to the SR in regards to HP with boost, it's just gonna cost a lot more money since it's setup for NA. And overmind has a good point, 250RWHP is a FAR stretch for an F20C, and would likely never be seen on pump gas in most areas. The highest HP L series motors that are streetable and semi-reliable are only in the 250-300hp range, beyond that the motors just aren't reliable for most people. It's just simply that hard to make NA HP. It's directly limited to displacement, there's only so far "high tech" can take you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I've just been looking at K24's for a fwd race car. Heres are a few that make 250whp: http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4698 http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4626 http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3925 I don't see why it would be all that hard to make 250whp with a F20C in a race car. I was qualifying that you could do it on pump gas and low rpms. I'm just saying it can be done. I believe it is very doable on pump gas and sub 8000rpm. Hell, I would like to build one for e85 that was 14:1 CR and drive it around on the street. It would be fun as hell. BTW, you can use a TSX 2.4L crank in the f20C: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0609turp_honda_f20c_stroker_build/index.html Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 First off, the K24 has more displacement, and secondly, many honda guys say the K series is the best 4 cylinder honda has ever made. It's head flows extremely well. If you're gonna get 250hp to the wheels in a F20C you're going to need to port the head, get new cams, retune the ECU, supporting intake, exhaust and fuel mods as well. You'll end up spending at least what you spent on the motor, probably more. Now you're looking at having probably 7k+ into the motor, and you could have just gotten a VQ35 which weighs about the same, sits farther back, but will put nearly 250hp down stock. And I still think that it'd be hard to get it to 250HP on pump gas. You can't tune right to the edge with pump gas because you have to factor in the inconsistancy of pump gas out there, so you're leaving performance on the table for safety. Now, if you're running race gas all the time, sure you can run 12:1 or higher compression all day long and make an extra 20% power. I bet even on a completely stock F20C just tuning the ecu for 110 octane would get you 10% extra power. But that's just speculation, something not seen in a very good light here on HZ so i'll just knock it off now. EDIT: Oh yea, and the guy thinking about doing this is in napa isn't he? So he has to deal with 91 octane, not 93 like much of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvErMiNd Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 An SR20de has less torque (30ft/lbs less) than a F20c Yeah I should've clarified. I did mean the turbo engine. But if you're set on a f20c swap... PM me and I can help you out. I've had a lot of experience with the engine and which mods get the best bang for their buck. My preference for a track f20c = Supercharged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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