naviathan Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Guess I'm lucky, my wife picks out Z cars around town and in movies. She gets pissed because so far she hasn't found one I haven't seen already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmogSUX Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Wow...this is a great conversion! If only Tesla Roadsters weren't so expensive 200+ miles per charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I don't know much about electric power but my RC airplanes are powered by Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries that are typically about half the weight of a solid battery for the same power output. Yes, they are expensive, they need special balance chargers, and they have been known to explode. They are VERY light for their power outputs and flow very high currents... The technology is probably too young for passenger vehicle use but the info might spark some ideas. http://www.hobby-lobby.com/flightpower.htm http://www.hobby-lobby.com/lithium-polymer.htm Just an FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I don't know much about electric power but my RC airplanes are powered by Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries that are typically about half the weight of a solid battery for the same power output. Yes, they are expensive, they need special balance chargers, and they have been known to explode. They are VERY light for their power outputs and flow very high currents...google show people have done the Lithium Polymer thing for electric cars see http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=10581 and http://www.dragtimes.com/video-viewer.php?v=RXJWNzFR_QQ and http://www.proev.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Voltage upgrade. I've purchased a 13th battery, making for a total of 156v now. This takes me from 144,000 watts to 156,000 watts, or 166hp mechanical (based on 80% efficiency). Total pack capacity is 11,700 watt-hours now from 10,800. I am in the process of welding in the new battery steel, painting the new steel surfaces with POR-15 to prevent them from ever rusting. I'm also installing the DC/DC converter to run all the 12v appliances from the 156v traction string. And I've found a drag strip within 7 miles of my house, perfect! Cruise to the strip, make a few blasts down the track, cruise home without dropping below 50% charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Does your controller do regen? If you don't have a clutch maybe you could use the old clutch leaver as a regen leaver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Does your controller do regen? If you don't have a clutch maybe you could use the old clutch leaver as a regen leaver? No regen. It'd be nice but there is no 500+ amp controller available with regen, and they have a habit of dying an early death I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 sorry for the dumb question, but did you explain how it does get charged, or how long it takes to recharge using household energy sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CArFAn Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 sorry for the dumb question, but did you explain how it does get charged, or how long it takes to recharge using household energy sources? I was thinking the same thing, do you charge each battery or is it 2 terminals that run a charge through all of them and like careless said what is the charge time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaveBonds Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I see that the batteries you use are rated at 930CCA. What is the general ambient temperature in your climate that you operate your car in and what is the CA rating of that battery at that temp? The reason I ask is because I am seriously looking at buying a 240z to restore for a driver. I restore cars and have the means to do anything to a car. And while I have looked extensively into E-85 and will probably convert all of my internal combustion engines over to run higher compression and run a richer mixture to run the moonshine if I want to, I would absolutely LOVE to have an electric Z if I can do it practically. My only problem is that we see below freezing temperatures here in Denver, which might kill the deal for me, depending on if the pack can withstand CCA efficiently enough to do at least a 30 mile trip between charges. Also, do you have a closed circuit to run your accessories, lights, signals, wiper motor, etc, or are you running them on the same pack? I would also assume that the car has no heater, but if it's going to be D.O.T. approved, you need lights and wipers. I would imagine that a car like this would benefit immensely from LED lighting all the way around. I think I could come up with a cheap propane heater for the winter here, but is there a way to use the heat from the motor? Maybe with the water cooling you mentioned? I understand that any other draw on the batteries takes it's toll on range and efficiency. I'm just trying to mow all of this over in my mind to see if it's practical for me to build. The main focus would be for a driver, with moderate performance attributes, similar to the torque ratings you have. If I were to build something that could get a 50 mile range in cold weather between charges, what type of battery would you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Up till now I have had little know how about EVs and the build requirements. This thread has brought total light to the subject! Thank you very much!!! You must have been pumped when you drove the Z out of the garage! Congrats! When you are all done...if you are ever done making improvements...Id would love to see a build sheet...a summary of parts and aprrox cost. And I too would like to know more about the all important charge time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 sorry for the dumb question, but did you explain how it does get charged, or how long it takes to recharge using household energy sources? I've skirted around the issue because I'm not totally done with the charging setup. These batteries are capable of being charged incredibly quickly, even in less than 1/2 an hour if you could supply enough juice. It all comes down to how much energy you can safely draw from your source and controlling it while it is being fed to the pack. I am planning on charging at home from a 240vac 30amp circuit. Assuming I can get 25 amps of charge current actually making it into the batteries, my charge time for the 75 amp-hour pack will be around 3 hours. If I were charging from a 120vac 15amp circuit it might be closer to 5 or 6. This is for a 100% drained pack, if all you've done is drive it down to the grocery store you could probably replace that energy in just 15 minutes. Perhaps in the future I could upgrade to a 50 amp circuit and cut it down to a little over an hour. The electricity is fed into the whole string of batteries at first. But each one is slightly different and one will finish charging before the rest. I'm designing a system so that a battery monitor sees when this happens, shuts of bulk charging and then goes around with a smaller computer controller charger and tops each one up until they are all exactly 100% full. It isn't necessary to let this happen before you can drive it, its more of a background system to keep the batteries all happy and balanced without any work on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 I see that the batteries you use are rated at 930CCA. What is the general ambient temperature in your climate that you operate your car in and what is the CA rating of that battery at that temp? The reason I ask is because I am seriously looking at buying a 240z to restore for a driver. I restore cars and have the means to do anything to a car. And while I have looked extensively into E-85 and will probably convert all of my internal combustion engines over to run higher compression and run a richer mixture to run the moonshine if I want to, I would absolutely LOVE to have an electric Z if I can do it practically. My only problem is that we see below freezing temperatures here in Denver, which might kill the deal for me, depending on if the pack can withstand CCA efficiently enough to do at least a 30 mile trip between charges. Also, do you have a closed circuit to run your accessories, lights, signals, wiper motor, etc, or are you running them on the same pack? I would also assume that the car has no heater, but if it's going to be D.O.T. approved, you need lights and wipers. I would imagine that a car like this would benefit immensely from LED lighting all the way around. I think I could come up with a cheap propane heater for the winter here, but is there a way to use the heat from the motor? Maybe with the water cooling you mentioned? I understand that any other draw on the batteries takes it's toll on range and efficiency. I'm just trying to mow all of this over in my mind to see if it's practical for me to build. The main focus would be for a driver, with moderate performance attributes, similar to the torque ratings you have. If I were to build something that could get a 50 mile range in cold weather between charges, what type of battery would you suggest? In NY the temperature swings around alot, from 100s in the summer (sometimes) to below freezing in the winter. That is one reason I chose these particular batteries, unlike "flooded" lead acid batteries which actually have liquid inside of them that can freeze when discharged, the AGM have something more like a gel. They are much more cold tolerant than a normal EV battery. There are several tricks the EV folks have come up with to deal with cold conditions that you don't see on my conversion. Its pretty common to insulate the batteries with a layer of styrofoam insulation. The batteries have alot of mass, and therefore thermal mass, so as long as they start at a good temperature they will stay that temperature for a pretty long time. Long enough to do what you need to do and get it back in the garage. Another system (often used in conjunction with insulation) is to add small flexible self-adhesive sheet heaters to the pack. Sometimes this lines the bottom of the battery box, or sometimes stuck to each individual battery. A small thermostat keeps the batteries warm while it is plugged in so they are ready to go. As far as I know these aren't used while driving. Even batteries that don't like the cold will still work, they just don't give you as much usable energy when warm. In fact, EV drag racers use this same principal and heat their batteries up even more on purpose (through lots of high amp discharges and quick charges) to get them to produce even more current for their short runs. If you need 30 miles of range when cold all you need to do is plan things out so that you'll have 50 miles of range when warm. I am running all the accessories from the traction pack. I am in the process of installing a device called a DC/DC converter which takes the high voltage from the pack and turns it into the 12v needed. Compared to the huge amount of power needed to move the car (something like 100A at 156v on the highway) the draw of the headlights and such (maybe 2A from the pack) probably wont make a big difference. I decided it was better to add another battery to the big pack and use some of the total energy for the accessories than to have a battery just for them that will end up being barely discharged most of the time (dead weight). I'm planning on installing an electric heater. People often hack apart those 3000 watt space heaters and install the heating elements where the heater core used to be. They work equally well on AC or DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Up till now I have had little know how about EVs and the build requirements. This thread has brought total light to the subject! Thank you very much!!! You must have been pumped when you drove the Z out of the garage! Congrats! When you are all done...if you are ever done making improvements...Id would love to see a build sheet...a summary of parts and aprrox cost. And I too would like to know more about the all important charge time! I'll tell you a secret, the video of the "maiden voyage" isn't the actual first time it moved. When I realized I was close to that point I stayed up all night working on it. It was around 5am that I finished and I just had to see it move before I went to sleep. The video wasn't until the next morning when the camera woman was with me. I will post the log of all my expenses on the blog when I'm pretty sure its complete. Right now its around $6.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I hear ya....been there done that! A middle of the night drive down the street and back...just to make sure the "maiden voyage" goes well. LOL! I'll tell you a secret, the video of the "maiden voyage" isn't the actual first time it moved. When I realized I was close to that point I stayed up all night working on it. It was around 5am that I finished and I just had to see it move before I went to sleep. The video wasn't until the next morning when the camera woman was with me. I will post the log of all my expenses on the blog when I'm pretty sure its complete. Right now its around $6.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 I now have protective boots around all the battery terminals. Bad things are much less likely to happen now. I will be getting my controller back in a few days (now with user adjustable current limit, throttle ramp rate). By that time I hope to finish the POR-15 treatment of all exposed steel, additional bracing/bracket for 13th battery, main contactor installation along with mid-pack 800A fuse, DC/DC converter installed and running 12v loads with a small battery to provide pull in for the main contactor to energize the other systems. I will then re-assemble the battery pack and hopefully take it to the strip. Then I shift my focus the charging/balancing stuff and the APU in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritz Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hate to sound like a kid but "do you have any more Vids" im a sucker for stuff like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hate to sound like a kid but "do you have any more Vids" im a sucker for stuff like this I'm working on it. I'm finishing up painting all the fresh steel under the hood, re-wiring for the voltage upgrade, upgrading the whimpy 400A fuse to a 800A unit, and replacing the controller with a unit that gives me control over current limiting, throttle ramp, etc. Plus it might actually be legal to drive on the road after this afternoon! But that also means I'll only have 10 days to finish the rear brake upgrade, headlights, horn, and turn signal upgrade before I need to get it inspected. Long story short - More vids in a few days. I will be sure to record the first actual drive, and it would be priceless to capture the look on the guys face when he pops the hood to inspect it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritz Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I'm working on it. I'm finishing up painting all the fresh steel under the hood, re-wiring for the voltage upgrade, upgrading the whimpy 400A fuse to a 800A unit, and replacing the controller with a unit that gives me control over current limiting, throttle ramp, etc. Plus it might actually be legal to drive on the road after this afternoon! But that also means I'll only have 10 days to finish the rear brake upgrade, headlights, horn, and turn signal upgrade before I need to get it inspected. Long story short - More vids in a few days. I will be sure to record the first actual drive, and it would be priceless to capture the look on the guys face when he pops the hood to inspect it! On something as old as the z, they will inspect the engine..? Where im at (nc) all my guy does is check the lights, see if i have a cat, window tint and tires...then your off!! Thats everything thats pre 1996.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 On something as old as the z, they will inspect the engine..? Where im at (nc) all my guy does is check the lights, see if i have a cat, window tint and tires...then your off!! Thats everything thats pre 1996.... LOL, where would the cat get connected to on an EV? I can see it, the dumbass inspectors say: "But you gotta have a cat." Come back with one tie-wraped somewhere in the vehcile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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