jeffer949 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Hey jgkurz could you take the manifold and put the head flange on a table and measure how far the flange is from the table? and from the front of the header flange and rear and the distance from the top of the header flange to the top of the turbo flange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Make sure we send a minimum dimension to SSAC. Distance from head to outside of turbine housing. W/ the current set up, I don't see my T04B fitting that at all. What I'm trying to figure out is what T4 turbo was used when the header was built? Even if the header was used on a right hand drive car there still would be fender issues. Maybe a larger T4 would barely fit since it would be mounted slightly higher then the T3. The A/C hose and brake switch would need to be relocated as well. I provided a photo with the block to flange measurement but I hesitate to make a dimension recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Hey jgkurz could you take the manifold and put the head flange on a table and measure how far the flange is from the table? and from the front of the header flange and rear and the distance from the top of the header flange to the top of the turbo flange Of course. I'll work on that ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 What I'm trying to figure out is what T4 turbo was used when the header was built? Even if the header was used on a right hand drive car there still would be fender issues. Maybe a larger T4 would barely fit since it would be mounted slightly higher then the T3. The A/C hose and brake switch would need to be relocated as well. I provided a photo with the block to flange measurement but I hesitate to make a dimension recommendation. My thinking was it may have been built and not tested? Or it could have been used on a tube frame front end. Something totally custom. If memory serves me, the previous owner never did try it out did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 My thinking was it may have been built and not tested? Or it could have been used on a tube frame front end. Something totally custom. If memory serves me, the previous owner never did try it out did he? He never tried it out, although it looks like it had been used at some point. The good thing about it is the welds and material are seriously heavy duty. The pipes almost feel like cast iron. I plan to modify the turbo flange so that I can fit at Garrett BB turbo, probably the new HTA GT35R. After measuring several times, I'll just cut off the old flange with some unknown length of pipe then TIG on the new turbo and wastegate flanges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 What I'm trying to figure out is what T4 turbo was used when the header was built? Even if the header was used on a right hand drive car there still would be fender issues. Maybe a larger T4 would barely fit since it would be mounted slightly higher then the T3. The A/C hose and brake switch would need to be relocated as well. Like I said, maybe it was used with an on-center T4 turbine. Not sure how much extra clearance they provide though... Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Well, a T4 properly mounted would be lifted somewhat away from the areas of interference, and we can't forget that. Granted, the diameter of the exhaust turbine is larger, but the centerline of that turbine will also not be as low as the T3 in the photo; nor would a T3 mounted on a proper T3 flange on this header, exactly as-is. The brake cylinder in question is an issue that should be dealt with on any Z anyhow, as are the hard lines. I think that maybe with .100-.125" combined milled off of both the head flange, and the turbo flange, and another 1/4-1/2" in clearancing done by backing the turbo flange up a bit, all the space you could need should be made available. Will SSAC have any problems making these changes? Might it not be a decent idea to make the changes to this header somehow before sending it off? Or am I just whistling in the dark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemicalblue Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Im in if it will fit an s130. What is the ballpark price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78280z Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Well, a T4 properly mounted would be lifted somewhat away from the areas of interference, and we can't forget that. Granted, the diameter of the exhaust turbine is larger, but the centerline of that turbine will also not be as low as the T3 in the photo; nor would a T3 mounted on a proper T3 flange on this header, exactly as-is. The brake cylinder in question is an issue that should be dealt with on any Z anyhow, as are the hard lines. I think that maybe with .100-.125" combined milled off of both the head flange, and the turbo flange, and another 1/4-1/2" in clearancing done by backing the turbo flange up a bit, all the space you could need should be made available. Will SSAC have any problems making these changes? Might it not be a decent idea to make the changes to this header somehow before sending it off? Or am I just whistling in the dark? I agree...I think it would probably be best to have those changes made before sending to SSAC. That way, they could copy those changes and the group buyers would not have to worry about further modifications. (Since most of us are going to be using a T04E, T04B, or some other type of T4 turbo, we might as well have SSAC take care of the machining to address any fitment issues.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I agree...I think it would probably be best to have those changes made before sending to SSAC. That way, they could copy those changes and the group buyers would not have to worry about further modifications. (Since most of us are going to be using a T04E, T04B, or some other type of T4 turbo, we might as well have SSAC take care of the machining to address any fitment issues.) I want to emphasize more than I did in my previous post that, "best" in this case is used, KNOWING that it may well not be practical given the group buy nature of this effort. I just wanted to put it out there as an "ideal" that would be achieved in a perfect world is all I seem to have alot of ideas and thoughts on this, even tho I have NOTHING to do with the group buy, so I am trying not to be a pest about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78280z Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I want to emphasize more than I did in my previous post that, "best" in this case is used, KNOWING that it may well not be practical given the group buy nature of this effort. I just wanted to put it out there as an "ideal" that would be achieved in a perfect world is all I seem to have alot of ideas and thoughts on this, even tho I have NOTHING to do with the group buy, so I am trying not to be a pest about it I know what you mean. I was just saying that I think it would be a good idea even for the group buy. I mean, looking at it from a business standpoint, I don't think the majority of customers want to buy a product that they then have to immediately modify for it to work properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Well, a T4 properly mounted would be lifted somewhat away from the areas of interference, and we can't forget that. Granted, the diameter of the exhaust turbine is larger, but the centerline of that turbine will also not be as low as the T3 in the photo; nor would a T3 mounted on a proper T3 flange on this header, exactly as-is. The brake cylinder in question is an issue that should be dealt with on any Z anyhow, as are the hard lines. I think that maybe with .100-.125" combined milled off of both the head flange, and the turbo flange, and another 1/4-1/2" in clearancing done by backing the turbo flange up a bit, all the space you could need should be made available. Will SSAC have any problems making these changes? Might it not be a decent idea to make the changes to this header somehow before sending it off? Or am I just whistling in the dark? I'm willing to send the header to SSAC after my modifications are complete but I can't make a commitment to a completion date. Due to other non-Z priorities it could take months before I get the work done to my satisfaction. Also, if I wait to send the header I risk SSAC not being interested compensating me. Another note, I will likely keep a T4 flange on my header even if I modify the flange location. The pipes merge into a collector like area that is much larger then a T3 flange. A new header might not have this issue if it's designed for a T3 flange right out of the gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Hey jgkurz could you take the manifold and put the head flange on a table and measure how far the flange is from the table? and from the front of the header flange and rear and the distance from the top of the header flange to the top of the turbo flange I added three more pics with descriptions to the main album (48,49 & 50). I doubt if I got all the measurements you requested. After reading your request over and over I wasn't positive what you were asking. If you are dying to get more measurements then I'll take some more pics but I'd like to be done for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I'm interested in principle, I don't get a chance to go on the forum that often so could the organise PM me when something concrete has been organised. Many Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Update: I have started correspondence with SSAC on arranging shipment and payment. He seems to be under the impression that he is selling all the Group Buy headers to a retail shop for resell to HBZ. At least that's my first impression. Also, he will be needed some guidance on how to design the header and what options it should have. Unfortunately this all may be a mute issue. After taking some more time looking at clearances and measurements, I've come to the conclusion that my header needs MAJOR modifications to ever fit non-tube chassis S30. To work properly, the flange cannot simply be moved closer to the block without ruining the merge collector. The S130 would not even be close to fitting at his point. I can't in good conscience send the header to SSAC knowing that it is not an accurate template for what this group has/is desiring. This is a major bummer for me as I'm out $800.00. on good faith that the header would fit. My only recourse is to spend an estimated $200.00 to $300.00 to have the header re-worked to hopefully fit my car. I'm still willing to send the header to SSAC but I don't see how this helps anyone. If someone has a different take on this mess then I'm all ears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 No they aren't not talking about selling it to another shop. They are just willing to sell it under a fictitious name so that no one would really have to know its a SSAC header. But we aren't worried about that. So we will just have SSAC sell us the header. Basically they are treating me as a business making a large purchase from them. I have asked them if i need to receive the money or of they can do that and they said it can be handled either way. I would just let them take care of the sales. So lets not worry about that part. We just need to make sure we have header that will fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Also for moving the flange. i think it would be alot easier if you left the collector together and moved it closer using the runners. Like cutting and shortening the runners at the spots i have marked in red. Obviously it will be a little more difficult than that but it would be easier than reforming the collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 what about just angleing the flange up some? this would give must more clearence for the compressor housing.. It seems to be pretty far away from the intake manifold you really could angle it up a good bit and not have any clearence issues.. Here is a pic of the current angle.. Now what about angleing the flange back some like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 wigenout: that would be impossible to do, as it would wholly bugger the collector. However, the MASSIVE amount of room between intake and turbo manifolds leads me to think that one *might* be able to get enough rotational soace out of it by machining the HEAD FLANGE at a slight angle to achieve the same rotation you mention. The turbo flange itself could also be machined to accentuate this angle. Basically cut some material off of the TOP edge of the head flange, leaving the base of it untouched to angle the entire header up a bit, then machine the turbo flange in the same way (take a bit off the top, leave the bottom the thickness it is) and you JUST might get your turbo clocked up above the rail. As for cutting in the runners, I think that may be more problematic than you make it seem as well... ..but all of these are just my thoughts. I REALLY hope you guys get this baby figured out, as it is SO close to being a nice header.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 What about some kind of elbow that tilts the flange upwards so the turbo sits farther upwards where there is more room in the engine bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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