JMortensen Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I was there Saturday looking for seals for this caliper. I may go back and see what he has. One thing to note is the tendency towards a 3.5" bolt space on the aftermarket Wilwoods for Z's. I can't really see any reason why our calipers need the same bolt spacing as the strut has, especially since we're using an adapter bracket. I think if you went to the other spacing (5.25" I think it is) you'd have a lot more selection. I looked at the website linked to above, but wasn't able to identify the same calipers on Wilwood's site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Good point on the spacing. If you are going to use a bracket, it doesn't matter too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublexl240z Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 That was my thought process on the calipers... if I have to make a bracket, what difference does it make if I go to a 3.5, 5.25 or even 6.00. It seems to me that a wider bolt pattern would inheritely(sp) stronger and less prone to twisting under load I was looking at the Wilwood GT3 calipers ( short track front cup) with 1.65in. rotors. That should handle a 2000 lb Zcar withe superlights on the back. I just got my wheels in so the brake fitting will commence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 1.65" rotor seems HUGE. I think the 1.2 rotor is more than enough heat capacity, and you really don't hear people talking about boiling fluid or fading with these larger brakes too much. Downside to too much brake of course is rotating mass. The car looks nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublexl240z Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Jon, You're right I just looked at my notes its actually the 1.38 rotors on the Wilwood front, They use 1.65 on the front APs.( Those calipers are $1000) 35 for hats and 30 for rotors is pretty sweet. When I talked to them the superlights had 1.10 in. or 1.25 piston I was hoping for the 1.75 for fronts. And figured the 12.72x1.38 fronts with the 12.19x1.25 would make a good rear match. Not trying to hijack here... Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 My old car had excellent brakes with Outlaw 2800 calipers and a vented 11.5" OD x .781" wide front rotor and a solid rear Brembo rotor. For a 30 minute track session in a 2,100 lb car that hit 150mph, that was more then enough brake. Again, the key is getting air to the rotors and the calipers. IMHO, a lot of folks run too much brake on their cars. Unless you're running a multi-hour Enduro, focus more on balance and less on heat management through mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Jon, You're right I just looked at my notes its actually the 1.38 rotors on the Wilwood front, They use 1.65 on the front APs.( Those calipers are $1000) 35 for hats and 30 for rotors is pretty sweet. When I talked to them the superlights had 1.10 in. or 1.25 piston I was hoping for the 1.75 for fronts. And figured the 12.72x1.38 fronts with the 12.19x1.25 would make a good rear match.Not trying to hijack here... Sorry Start your own thread. I agree with John though, it's overkill so it's more weight you're carrying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I'm using a 1.45inch thick 14inch rotor on the front of the Porsche, and it's 3365# without me in it. I can say this much... For as fast as Mark is running, I think he needs more rotor than many guys may think... He is running 2:10s or quicker on a road course that is 3.3 miles long with two sections that will allow above 150MPH, along with several heavy braking zones, 6 come to my mind, on a 22 turn course (counting all of the two part turns). Those are seriously fast times, and Mark is using his brakes hard to get those speeds/times/brake forces. I'd venture to say that very few people on this board will experience those forces. Mark is a hell of a driver, driving a 2600# 325WHP track car. The car and the driver are ideal for the issues mark is experiencing. Mark, You need to look at what other marques are experiencing while running those times... That's your answer. Mark, you have a PM... Mike 1.65" rotor seems HUGE. I think the 1.2 rotor is more than enough heat capacity, and you really don't hear people talking about boiling fluid or fading with these larger brakes too much. Downside to too much brake of course is rotating mass. The car looks nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayolives Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Woo now. I'm in the VIR 2:10 club with no problem whatsoever with Dave's 6 pods on the front and 4 pod on the rears. I've been running Wilwood "H" pads for the last year with at least 20 track days on them and they still have a way to go. Mark, I don't know whast going on with your setup and would defer to Wilwood tech support and have a conversation with Dave to get their take on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 I took the other side off last night and removed the pistons. That side is worn just like the right side but not quite as bad. I'm working on what I believe is a solution but I will not know until the next track day. I'll post back after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Was that the C5R that he raced at the 24 Hours of Daytona, or a regular Vette? If it was the race car, the C5R really is in a whole other league with regards to brakes. Yes the CSR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 That's the difference in your setup and what Mark's running... BIG difference there! Mike Woo now. I'm in the VIR 2:10 club with no problem whatsoever with Dave's 6 pods on the front and 4 pod on the rears. I've been running Wilwood "H" pads for the last year with at least 20 track days on them and they still have a way to go. Mark, I don't know whast going on with your setup and would defer to Wilwood tech support and have a conversation with Dave to get their take on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 That's the difference in your setup and what Mark's running... BIG difference there! Mike Really the only difference between Tom's car and mine is the 6 piston calipers vs the 4 piston. Those two calipers use the same pad. The total piston area in the 4 pots is a bit more that the 6 pots. Tom uses the same hub and the same bracket to hold the calipers in place. I'm just really good at tearing up stuff no one else has broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The six piston caliper is quite a bit more "stout" than the four piston unit. The six piston is a billet caliper AFAIK. Dave told me that his four piston kit is good up to about 150mph track Z cars (generically speaking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The six piston caliper is quite a bit more "stout" than the four piston unit. The six piston is a billet caliper AFAIK. Dave told me that his four piston kit is good up to about 150mph track Z cars (generically speaking). I don't think this is true. I think if you asked Wilwood they'd say that the forged SL is stiffer than the billet 6 piston. The 6 piston is used to keep the pads from tapering. Best to ask them directly though, since all of their advertising is filled with superlatives. Funny thing about Dave: back in the day when he was still advertising a full tube chassis he advertised the 12.2" x 4 piston setup as "for Z cars that regularly see 200+ mph". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Both the 4 and 6 piston calipers are forged billet calipers. You would hard presed to tell them apart except by looking at the number of pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 It is not just the number of pistons but the diameter and total piston area that is the issue in terms of force. I run the 4 piston wilwoods and have not had the problems that you are experiencing. The finish on the rotor has an impact on the coefficient of friction and ultimately the stopping power with any given pad and caliper. have you thought of resurfacing the rotors? In the circle track cars we regularly replace the rotors not the hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 It is not just the number of pistons but the diameter and total piston area that is the issue in terms of force. I run the 4 piston wilwoods and have not had the problems that you are experiencing. The finish on the rotor has an impact on the coefficient of friction and ultimately the stopping power with any given pad and caliper. have you thought of resurfacing the rotors? In the circle track cars we regularly replace the rotors not the hats. Iv'e replaced the rotors several times. I think I have an idea about what is going on and how to fix it. I'll get it all sorted out and post results. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just throwing this out there... you are sure that the caliper you are running matches the rotor thickness you are using? There are different versions of the Forged Billet Superlite for different rotor thicknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just throwing this out there... you are sure that the caliper you are running matches the rotor thickness you are using? There are different versions of the Forged Billet Superlite for different rotor thicknesses. Very positive. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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