at-jefft Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Ya, i would buy an rear deck sill and probably a full door skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So your saying I can spend three times the money and six times the effort for replacement panels? Sign me up! ... My car needs new rockers, doglegs, the works. I have zero experience welding or with major body work. Whole replacement panels would be nice, even if they cost a bit more. But not 3X more, as is the case with replacement frame rails. Alas, the demise of public education. It costs you 33% more than what you would buy for a coupe. Not 3X as much. (restrain myself....) If you don't have welding knowledge, or experience, then complete panels wouldn't do you any good either, as they have to be welded in... The effort is not that great, it's a matter of squarely sectioning the rocker and splicing it in the middle of the coupe panel, then installing it. If it takes 1/2 hour of labor per side, I'd be surprised. Same for the dogleg. It takes FAR more than that to install them, it's not '6X the effort'...if you aren't willing to work at it, then maybe car restoration is not in your cards. It takes a special kind of person to do it. If your car 'needs' rockers, doglegs, the works I'd suggest getting another chassis and starting on it, as there are plenty out there in great rustfree condition in the southwest. It will be FAR cheaper than repairing it. By my take on it 33% is 'a little bit more work' relatively speaking and the time any body shop would charge for massaging panels after installation wouldn't be any more extreme for the sectioned panels than for some that are 'relatively close' as the Tabco parts. Then again, I have complete Nissan Rockers for a 2+2, as well as Eurospec complete Quarter Panels just waiting for my 76 Fairlady Z 2/2 restoration. Now you want a rare bird, check out production numbers on 73-77 Fairlady Z 2/2's. Total Fairlady Z Production 69-77 was 78,000 or thereabouts. There were more 260Z's sent to the North American Market in one year than almost 10 years of Fairlady Production. And 2/2's were a very small percentage of that. One of the 'rarest of the rare'---far more so than any of the LHD examples. If you think 33% more than what Tabco charges for repop stuff is unreasonable (Or 6X what Tabco is totally out of this world and unreasonable...) don't even ASK or CONTEMPLATE what those babies would cost you to get from my hands. The shipping alone exceeds your 6X criteria. For one quarter panel. Matter of fact, I have had US Spec 2+2's given to me because the people didn't want them around after they got the engine out. And I've bought nice examples for less than the Quarter Panel cost to ship from Europe (from a German Collector's Stash....) And as for 'how many 2+2's do you see... One on my Eastern Driveway, One in my Western Driveway (RHD Fairlady Z 2/2-S Model), One behind my storage container (RHD Fairlady Z 2/2-L Model), One under the pepper trees in the SE corner of my property, and Four under the pepper trees on the western middle portion of my property. 4 S30's and 4 S130's... Oh, and one in the Race Trailer. It's the fastest F/PRO car on record at Bonneville and El Mirage. Yeah, it would be 'nice' to have quality parts available, but quality and cheap? Pick one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau M Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So working on cars is only for people with huge wallets and driveways? I'm not building a top speed record contender or even a turntable show queen here. Like I said, have little to no welding experience. It's not like I'm building a rocket ship full of Swiss watches. I have no doubt that I will be able to learn to weld, and this car is what I am building while I learn. What would be nice though is to be able to buy parts at a reasonable price. Maybe I should get a rust free shell. Maybe I should get a coupe like everyone else. Maybe I should just give up before I have started and not build a car at all. The education crack hits home though. After being in the military for 4 years I decided to get out and go back to school. I am working on my third degree right now, working full time and am still in the reserves, and married. I have little time to wipe my butt let alone play in my giant car shop and cobble together rocker panels. None of this has stopped me from buying a rust bucket that I can call my own and pound on when I have a few free seconds. Anyway, back on topic, I understand that 2+2 parts are going to be more expensive, and not available, but I do not think I should be bent over a barrel for a little more tooling and 12 extra inches of metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Anyway, back on topic, I understand that 2+2 parts are going to be more expensive, and not available, but I do not think I should be bent over a barrel for a little more tooling and 12 extra inches of metal. Figure 40 hours of work on the tooling at $90 per (fully loaded) given a reasonably priced tool and die maker. That's $3,600 and that's a bargain. Spread that $3,600 over 100 parts (typical cost projection for small runs) and you're looking at an additional $36 each part over comparable coupe parts - for one part. And that's just the cost recovery part. No profit in there at all. I think paying an extra $40 per part for 2+2 parts is very reasonable and you're not being bent over anything for that sum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 John is being kind with his estimate.....press time...set up and spotting will easily double his estimate. .....then figure the market for 2+2 skins is 20% or less of the 2 door. Now we get into ROI for that 100 part run and inventory costs. All due rerspect.........Just because you go to school full time and are low on funds doesnt mean the aftermarket owes you low priced items. You made these choices...they are making thiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doradox Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Figure 40 hours of work on the tooling at $90 per (fully loaded) given a reasonably priced tool and die maker. That's $3,600 and that's a bargain. Spread that $3,600 over 100 parts (typical cost projection for small runs) and you're looking at an additional $36 each part over comparable coupe parts - for one part. And that's just the cost recovery part. No profit in there at all. I think paying an extra $40 per part for 2+2 parts is very reasonable and you're not being bent over anything for that sum. Add to that advertising. The 2+2 owners aren't going to just psychically know these parts are now available. All that and how long would it take to sell those 100 parts. I think it's unlikely they'd ever even sell all 100. Maybe if Beau M did all the leg work and found enough people that wanted these parts, went to Tabco with cash in hand they'd be open to manufacturing the parts. If they were guaranteed to sell 50 of them they might think the investment would be worth running the parts. That's actually a good idea for anyone who thinks "they (meaning someone other than me) should make XXX for my car. I know lots of people who would buy that for $XXX". Sounds kind of like the start of a business case actually. One could become a broker and drum up demand and money and take that to part manufacturers and get the parts made. Take a small percentage of the total sale for yourself and everyone is happy. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau M Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The OG poster said TABCO wanted to know what people would be interested in them producing. Because they have the best prices I have seen for coupe parts, I figure that they will also have the best prices for 2+2 parts if they produce them. Of course they will be more expensive. I don't expect anyone to give me any sort of break. I don't expect a company to build parts for my wierd car. I don't expect a damn thing. If TABCO is interested in what s30 owners are interested in, this one is interested in 2 + 2 parts. Look, I know you guys have been around for a while and know how things work with Z parts. You dont make it a welcoming experience to get into the hobby though. If you can show me where I can get 2+2 panels for $40 more than TABCO, please do. I have a lot to learn about these cars, but I was not born yesterday. Sometimes people have to ask questions, ask for help, and sometimes they are wrong. Instead of being argumentative, try being helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Thicken up the skin lad....its nothing personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I don't expect anyone to give me any sort of break. ... I don't expect a damn thing. ... If you can show me where I can get 2+2 panels for $40 more than TABCO, please do. Jeezsus, dude. I did EXACTLY that! You simply couldn't comprehend the math. Maybe with three more degrees you will be able to comprehend that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 annnnddddd, moving on... I would definitely love to see a roof skin made available assuming that the fitment was nice! Dings to the roof are so common in our cars. I demolished a decent parts car just for its roof skin because it was in good shape... For someone doing a reskin, a quality replacement would be well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I second Cockerstar comments as my LS1 car is at the bodyshop right now for a reroof! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau M Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Jeezsus, dude. I did EXACTLY that! You simply couldn't comprehend the math. Maybe with three more degrees you will be able to comprehend that... Its not the math, I couldn't understand what you were saying. I took it that you needed three rockers per side, but after re-reading it I think you mean the third rocker has enough material to extend the other two. That makes sense. I know its becoming the norm to be an elitist jerk on the internet, but its not necessary. Nothing personal. If I have it right this second time around I thank you and will gladly order 3 rockers from TABCO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncfisher Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I second Cockerstar comments as my LS1 car is at the bodyshop right now for a reroof! Joe looking to have mine re-roofed about how much I'm I looking at? I'm thinking about 500 is that far off? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 looking to have mine re-roofed about how much I'm I looking at?I'm thinking about 500 is that far off? thanks Parts and finishing materials plus 6-8 hours depending on what they are doing. Totally dependent on the shops labor rate. At even $50 an hour you're looking at that much in labor. Many roof problems are the result of stretched metal. Really, in many cases a good body man can shrink and work the creases and divots out in half the time a Re-Roof would require. Seriously, if someone sat in the middle of your roof (er, or goats decided to climb atop it because it was their hill') the damage could be repaired in 3-4 hours doing metal work and never have to mess with removing a windshield to do the pinchweld under the gasket. And that's for a good body place...not a 'sound deadening bondo slatherer' roof repair job. I was shocked to find out they could actually repair it properly quicker and cheaper than doing a total reskin on the roof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 looking to have mine re-roofed about how much I'm I looking at?I'm thinking about 500 is that far off? thanks I'm thinking anything under double that and I'd be a happy camper. I'll let you know when I get the bill. Yeah I trust the bodyshop enough to have them do it without knowing what it will cost. Oh and Tony, I'm reroofing to eliminate a 70's sun roof, not because of damage. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnZ Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 "Eurospec complete Quarter Panels just waiting for my 76 Fairlady Z 2/2 restoration" Tony, what is the "Eurospec". Is the only difference no provision for side markers? "Eurospec" vs. JDM? please elaborate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth-Z Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 looking to have mine re-roofed about how much I'm I looking at?I'm thinking about 500 is that far off? thanks Forget the top....Roadster!!! Back to the TABCO subject. Count me in for 2+2 rear Quarter Panels. Both my Fairlady Z's have some sort of damage by either collision or rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm thinking anything under double that and I'd be a happy camper. I'll let you know when I get the bill. Yeah I trust the bodyshop enough to have them do it without knowing what it will cost. Oh and Tony, I'm reroofing to eliminate a 70's sun roof, not because of damage. Joe If you don't mind, could you post or PM me the name of the shop, and what the roof job cost you? I need some rust repair and body work done on my 280z, and my parent's 280z is in need of a reskin if they should ever choose to do so. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes, the Euro Panels are sidemarker free. They have a different P/N from JDM and what is on these for Germany. I can't see the difference (that I remember offhand) from what I have on my 2/2, but it's probably something in the bumper recess, or in the connection near the roof---the stiffeners that are inside. I'll know when I peel mine off I guess. Oooh, 70's sunroof. There is a welded panel repair that I saw done for $300 on Gearhead's car. He did the gob-job weld, and the body shop heat worked and srunk his warpage back to skimcoat smoooooth. That they fixed his warpage (had bondo almost 1/2" thick I think!!!) was what got me to take the next car there to fix the 'goat damage'. They fixed mine for slightly more than Gearheads. He got a special deal since he knew the guys, but I didn't feel it was unreasonable. I've done roofs before, screw that! If I were to do it again, I wouldn't do the pinchweld replacement method. I'd cut close to the curve near the perimiter, and weld on that point instead of the center of the roof. It's stronger, less prone to warp, and easier for me to longboard back to a proper curve without any waves. Plus it doesn't buckle when I start bearing down with the quadratic sander like it does in the middle of the roof! The new MIG's do wonderful thin metal welding in stitch mode. You just need the other roof for the patch panel. Doing a flanged lap weld and then grinding off the excess underneath is also possible as amerpage can be lower and the blowthrough propensity of a butt weld is minimized. But you got to have that flanger! Most body shops will have that capability. I'll do most anything on the car, but when it comes to the roof, I got better things to do! LOL I can do it, but if Ican pay someone to have it done in a day---LET EM! If I had competent help for the shrinking procedure I might do it...but that shrinking is a PITA and nobody wants to be 'dolly boy' inside the car any more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 So... Tabco guy has a name... Tim I relayed some of the requests here (yes, even for 2+2 parts). he's gonna get an exploded diagram in front of him and call me back tonight. So, any last requests? So far i've got: Battery tray area lower radiator crossmember rear sill full door skins full roof panels 2+2 rear quarters/doglegs anything else?? I'll try and get an idea how long until parts will be ready tonight. If you think of anything else give Tim a call at Tabco (http://www.tabcobodyparts.com/index.html) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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