I'm torn again, I've gone gun crazy

[josh817]

Alright simply put, I like the 1911 but I like the .357 Magnum. Would be a carry gun. Revolver is nice and reliable, leaves no witnesses, double action, and not to mention the .357 magnum with a hot load should hit harder. Bad thing is that the most I've seen in a revolver for .357 was 7 rounds, the person it's aiming at can see whether or not it's loaded. The 1911 is bigger (because I like the GI size), holds 8 rounds but I can find a wide body that holds 14, just more to carry...

 

Pro's and con's of the two? I figure why do I need 8-14 rounds. It should only take one or two shots to get someone down. The same idea applies to hitting power, I would think. .357 magnum hits 200 ftlbs harder. Sigh.

[Inferno 08]

Have you shot them both? How the gun feels in your hand and how comfortable you are with it are some of the most important parts of choosing which one is right. I know I've personally read up on a gun and thought I'd love it, only to find out I hated the way it felt once I got a chance to shoot one. I've shot both a 1911 and a .357 Magnum, and I've gotta say I loved the trigger pull on the 1911. However, the .357 definitely packs a punch, and you're not going to have to worry about a casing not ejecting properly and jamming the gun. Again, it really comes back to personal preference. Shoot both, and the decision shouldn't be too hard.

 

Also, the person its aimed at being able to see if its loaded or not should be a moot point, seeing as you shouldn't be pointing a gun at someone unless you fully intend on using it. Unholstered and unloaded gun is a bad situation to get into.

[Doc Hawk]

This is the Ultimate Handgun Debate, and it's all pretty much nonsense. A 9mm is completely adequate for a defense handgun, as is a .44 mag. The real question is whether you can put your rounds on target with your handgun of choice. Below 9mm +P, there are some legitimate concerns that the round won't penetrate into vitals through winter clothing, but above that all penetration and expansion is really enough to penetrate and disrupt vitals.

 

When you compare your .45 ballistic gel performance to that of a 9mm +P, think of the practical gain you are actually receiving. An extra 1/4" radius is probably not going to mean that much if you can't get your round within an inch of the vitals. And if you're not hitting vitals, it's all about the psychological drive of your target. You won't be happy waiting for bleedout while your attacker shoots you back.

 

Lastly, disabuse yourself of any notion of "knockdown power." There's no such thing. Hopefully you know that so I'll forgo the explanation.

 

Shoot what you're good with!

[josh817]

I've shot my fathers Gold Cup National Match and it was alright as well as a some sort of Springfield 9mm my brother in law has. I sucked at shooting both but then again I don't have any experience with them. 1 mag through each gun for the first time, it was all over the place. I've never handled a revolver but the grip doesn't look comfortable.

 

I also strongly agree with you Doc Hawk. Wikipedia, for what it's worth, actually says there is a certain 9mm round that hits with the same energy as a .45 and even if it doesn't the argument is like you said, moot, considering the 1/4" less expansion.

 

I feel like I'd be more comfortable with a 1911 however its size may be a problem to carry. I also like the 9mm and .45's because they have .22LR slide conversions so you can have fun at the range and not go broke. I guess I'll have to go to our local range and rent out a revolver.

Edited November 17, 2010 by josh817

[stprasinz]

wow, this on a car forum.... did your parts get stolen, get an alarm and call the police. in a car gang and parts or whole car got stolen, you and your crew get the stuff back with riot shot guns, or automatics.... but seriously go to the cops, get an alarm... now knock down power... hmmmm someone wearing bullet proof armor(not just a jacket, bullet will have penetration, just no hole... ) but a armor vest or jacket (wether its lexan under kevlar or whta ever.) there is knock down power... but honestly i don't think many of us joined to be witness to premeditted murder etc.....

[josh817]

Well... someone has been in the technical sections too long. That's why this section is here, doesn't have to be technical Z stuff.

 

Mind you, lets not get too strung up in whether or not guns should be allowed or not, that would be political talk which forum rules do not permit... as well as your non-capitalized letters and misspelled words if we REALLY wanted to get technical.

Edited November 17, 2010 by josh817

[JMortensen]

1911 is too big for me to carry, so is a large frame 357 that would have greater than 6 capacity. If you want to carry your gun I'd get something smaller. For an exposed carry I think I chose pretty wisely with my P226 in .40, but it is also too big for concealed carry for me, unless it's the middle of winter and I'm wearing a parka. I've been looking at concealed carry options for a while now, and I keep coming back to the small revolvers. I like Ruger revolvers, and the LCR is now available in .357. I think I'd probably buy a .357 and run it with .38's Your idea of going and renting both is a good one. FWIW, I think revolver grips are generally speaking more comfortable than semi-auto grips, and I'd even go so far as to say single action revolver grips are the best for comfort as they convert the recoil into a rolling motion, but they're obviously not very practical for concealed carry...

Edited November 17, 2010 by JMortensen

[jt1]

It all comes down to which one you like and can shoot most comfortably. Try to shoot the guns you are considering, either thru a range rental, or shooting with a friend who has something you like. Then make your decision.

 

I jump around between a j frame Model 60, a K frame model 65, and a para single stack 45.

 

jt

[BLOZ UP]

I had a Glock 22, which was a little too much for me. I have a G26 now and love it! The trigger pull is uh, well it's a Glock, but it's a great concealed carry weapon. My friend got a Springfield 1911 and after getting it fixed, he loves it. I want one now, but I've got enough firearms for my budget at the moment.

 

You're old enough to carry?

[BLOZ UP]

wow, this on a car forum.... did your parts get stolen, get an alarm and call the police. in a car gang and parts or whole car got stolen, you and your crew get the stuff back with riot shot guns, or automatics.... but seriously go to the cops, get an alarm... now knock down power... hmmmm someone wearing bullet proof armor(not just a jacket, bullet will have penetration, just no hole... ) but a armor vest or jacket (wether its lexan under kevlar or whta ever.) there is knock down power... but honestly i don't think many of us joined to be witness to premeditted murder etc.....

 

Your the first one to mention anything about murder. The mere mention of guns on this forum doesn't necessarily mean that someone wants to kill anyone.

 

But I will make a somewhat political statement, if someone's charging full out at you and you know they intend to kill you, how will taking out your cell phone and dialing 911 help you?

[Inferno 08]

It really comes down to what you find most comfortable. Just go out and try to shoot as many different guns as possible to see what fits you best. I've shot quite a few different handguns in the past year, and if I had to choose one for a concealed carry, it'd be a tossup between the XD45 or a M&P 9mm. The XD has an awesome recoil suppression system and it fit in my hand great. The M&P is the gun that my friend carries on the job (he's a sheriff). It felt great had a 17+1 capacity, and I found it real easy to be accurate with it.

[josh817]

Not old enough to carry but soon.

 

Every time I go to wave flags for a club race I meet a lot of strange characters. It's become a regular occurrence to have most of them toss out a bunch of **** and claim its true. What I'm getting at is one dude said you don't need a license to carry as long as it's in sight. Just last weekend another dude said you don't need a license to carry but only if it's in your car out of sight and you are traveling.

 

The second guy carries some truth but not 100%. Indeed you are allowed to carry a weapon in your vehicle without a CHL only if it is unloaded, out of sight, and if you are traveling somewhere to use it like a gun range or gun show. Back in the 80's/90's you were allowed to carry a gun with you in a car without a CHL (this was before CHL's) only if it was out of sight and if you crossed over more than one county line. Therefore, my father legally carried his .45 with him since he traveled from Burleson to Fort Worth everyday for work. The traveling rule was superseded by CHL's.

 

The point that I'm getting at is here in Arlington I don't feel safe all the time. My girlfriend goes to get gas or throws out the trash and she has these dudes clapping and whistling at her. I would too... Anyway, I figure its a good idea if to get something if I plan to hang around here. I already have a measly .22 rifle in the apartment but even in an instance where someone is breaking into my car, I don't think I would take it outside. I run through the situation in my head and where the legal boundaries are. I argued with the stubborn worker this weekend because he kept on urging me to purchase something and to carry if I'm so worried. I explained to him that campus rules wouldn't even allow me to carry in their parking lot, where a lot of crime occurs in the first place and also if I'm not of age then I'm legally screwed. The way he put it was you can shoot the person, and good luck finding 12 people to all agree that I'm guilty, or you could be dead.

 

Regardless, I can manage to wait a year and get a CHL rather than illegally carry a firearm. Shooting a gun is efficient but there are other ways to defend yourself. Of course that is IF anything were to happen at all from now until next year.

 

 

EDIT:

Oh and one more thing because I just saw you guys mentioned accuracy. I'm not one of those guys that needs a gun to be accurate. I mean you can throw all sorts of crazy situations at me but I still feel like the fact of the matter is if I'm shooting at something, its going to be right in front of me. So my buddies argument of a super-duper Glock or whatever can shoot 100 yards... I don't know I'm just making these numbers up... is pointless to me when the target is within 25 yards. I think that general logic also phases out the "hitting power" of a round when you consider the subject is so close to you, any round above 9mm should do. Contrary to my desire for the GI framed 1911, a shorter barrel would work well. Rock Island Armory had some decent .45's. People bash the quality and how the clearances aren't tight, not the best accuracy, typical GI sights (not much of a sight), but once again, I'm not shooting at something and eighth of a mile away.

Edited November 17, 2010 by josh817

[BLOZ UP]

"You handgun is used to fight your way back to your rifle." -Boston's Gun Bible

 

You can keep a loaded handgun in your glove box now without a CCW license, thanks to Texas' version of the Castle Doctrine. You can also open carry rifles and shotguns in some areas (rural). A lot of city ordinances don't allow it. But I wouldn't try it anyway...

 

You can also keep your handgun/shotgun/whatever in your car at UTA, but that doesn't help you when you are walking away from your car. It's also a bad idea since the UTA parking lots are a popular auto theft/burglary spot. Ask me how I know.

[josh817]

Ah yes I forgot in Texas, the vehicle is your private property under your protection, even if its parked on public property. I believe the bill says you can carry without a CHL only in a car that you own or control. AKA you can't carry, while you're in your buddies car. Makes sense. I guess a CHL is same thing as CCW and it only applies for if you are carrying it on you? I already figured next year I'll make a road trip to Utah and get my license, check out the national parks and such.

 

This is about the guns though. You were saying you're Glock was a bit much and I can see how the revolver grips help "roll" the recoil. I'll have to see.

Edited November 17, 2010 by josh817

[BLOZ UP]

I just didn't like the trigger feel combined with the recoil of the .40. That, and the case failure reports pretty much ruined any ideas about reloading.

[Derek]

As a long time owner of a 1911 I can verify that they get heavy in a hurry. If you don't have a properly suspended rig you will be uncomfortable in no time. You really need to analyze your carry requirements. If it's in the glove box then in your belt to the house and then properly stored then it's not a problem. But if your out and about you will stop carrying because of the weight. I ended up with a stainless steel mustang as well because there were times when I needed something small but I was comfortable with the 45 and the mustang just felt right in my hand.

 

 

But now that I live in a smaller town I no longer carry and I let my permit expire about 10 years ago.

 

Derek

[Doc Hawk]

A few things:

 

- Inferno hit the nail on the head, XD45 Compact is an excellent choice for CCW; there are similar models from competitors to find one that fits your hand and firing posture. If you're shopping by caliber, this is a gimmie.

 

- Derek is correct; the 1911 is not a CCW. Period. There aren't many absolutes in firearms, but I think this is one of them.

 

- If you're worried about getting jumped somewhere, all the talk about guns in cars or apartments is not applicable. I think it might be best to concentrate on your identified threat situation/vulnerability, and address that. Anything that doesn't specifically address that is distracting at best and leads to dangerous postulation (as a civilian) at worst.

 

- For practical purposes, there are no such things as accurate (or inaccurate) combat handguns. There are only accurate and inaccurate shooters. A little God-given talent and a whole lot of practice separate these two groups.

 

- Josh, you need (and I say this in love) range time. Many of your answers and questions make it apparent that you've spent some time bench-racing this whole defensive carry idea, but you haven't got a lot of range experience. Go do some shooting, meet some nice folks who are gunsy, learn all you can, and you'll make a much better showing of yourself when you respond to things like Jon's input regarding single action revolvers and their recoil.

 

FWIW, I am medium height, slim/medium build. I carry a .45 compact 10-round S/A for general duty, or a full frame 9mm 15-round DM Semi (Browning BDM) for high risk environments. The BDM is a long discontinued gem which is the only full frame, hicap semi that lies as flat as a single stack. It's a beauty - I just hope she doesn't break down, because parts are NLA.

 

Just one guy's opinion. I have peers that I respect who offer very rational and reasonable explanations for different opinions, so YMMV.

 

Cheers,

David

 

Experience:

152nd Security Police Sqdn, NVANG (Ret)

Private Security Regional Field Supervisor

Dept of Homeland Security, Counterterrorism Instructor, CSTI

Currently Security and Protective Services Director (Private Institution)

Edited November 17, 2010 by Doc Hawk

[Brad-ManQ45]

For a revolver, think about the Charter Arms Bulldog - .44 Special.

 

Nice and compact, easy to control (at least for me).

 

Mt dad and I are into all kinds of guns, revolvers, pistols, shotguns and rifles.

 

As far as sidearms go, he has a 1911 and the Bulldog.

 

I have 2 EAA Witnesses - .45 and 10mm both full size, a Beretta Model 81 .32 ACP, A Makarov, A CZ 52, a Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag w/ Weaver stainless scope, Two Ruger .22 pistols - one long barrel and a long barrel target model as well as a High Standard .22 Mag derringer.

 

For some reason, I am more accurate with full loads in the 10mm than I am with any other centerfire sidearm except for the Redhawk - but it has the scope and is HEAVY! The 10mm is actually my last sidearm purchase.

 

Sorry to go into great lengths, but it boils down to what others have said - you have to find the sidearm you are most comfortable and accurate with.

 

Just a note, I have a medium to large hand - if I have to wear latex or tight gloves I take a large, but for normal winter type gloves a medium usually fits - I HATE loose gloves.

[Tony D]

45 ACP Round was designed to knock down drug-crazed Muslim Rebels in the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The 45 Long Colt would penetrate clean through and they would still dead run and wreak havoc in the line.

 

They make Hydra-Shock Ammo nowadays...a .380 in an old AMT Wallet Holster works just fine. So would a new Airweight, with the following caveat:

 

Revolver more reliable? That's contradictory of field tests done by the military...

 

"Doesn't Leave Witnesses?" Anybody involved in the line of work that is concerned about that knows a locked breech Ruger Bull Barrel doesn't either, and you only need one behind the ear to do that job.

 

Seriously, what does leaving expended brass on the ground have to do with any LEGITIMATE use of a firearm. Not to be too strong here, but that is a very ignorant statement to make...period.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Tony D

[stravi757]

wow, this on a car forum.... did your parts get stolen, get an alarm and call the police. in a car gang and parts or whole car got stolen, you and your crew get the stuff back with riot shot guns, or automatics.... but seriously go to the cops, get an alarm... now knock down power... hmmmm someone wearing bullet proof armor(not just a jacket, bullet will have penetration, just no hole... ) but a armor vest or jacket (wether its lexan under kevlar or whta ever.) there is knock down power... but honestly i don't think many of us joined to be witness to premeditted murder etc.....

 

Must be a fellow californian