tannji

OK... I am getting the impression that most of the negative replies are from people who are offended by this systems newness and/or it being non-conventional. I dont often make my mind up on a pruduct based on what the manufacturer says.... So here is what other people are saying. LS1tech.com seems to be a very good site, not a lot of BS tolerated there, and lots of experience in the real world, as opposed to bench-racing. Based on what actual owners of cars with the STS system installed are saying, I am leaning more strongly towards it than I was when this thread started. It would appear to me that for about $6,000, I can have a very nifty 500HP powerplant that is relatively docile when I want it to be, and with IC and Methanol, can go further out on the limb than I will likely take it. Here are some links to Good Threads, from Actual Owners.... please feel free to comment. (if you read them, lol) STS users giving feedback. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223131 Track times from STS owners http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222978 Intake VS water concerns addressed http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222871 Reliability questioned (SC and STS turbos) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222393 Spam post about too many noobs wanting to know about the STS turbo system. Owners seem to think the STS website FAQ is right on the money http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223227 Good idea on running dual mufflers from the STS system http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222757 81HP and 98# torque gain from stock STS@ 4.5#'s of boost. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222102 Some customer testimonials... Obviously bought and paid for.... http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222004 This guy is replacing D1 SC srtup with 630HP with the STS system http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221625 Z71 truck goes from 16.2 stock to 12.62 with STS@ 12 pounds (slips) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220264 Great thread, lots of info and numbers from a lot of owners, alos comparisons to SC projects here. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213703

I am in.... seems to work

OK, so all the F-body owners on LSI.com that have it are idiots who dont know better? The quotes from magazine editors who installed and tested it were payed for? Kenny Duttweiler was talking out his "monkey port"? I think some people have misconstrued a couple things. This isnt billed as the bleeding edge Performance setup. At 5 PSI, you are not looking at extreme temps to begin with... and how many cars out there have run turbos at low PSI with no IC? They never claimed that the 15 feet of intake was equivalent to a high-end IC, they said that it didnt need much cooling to begin with, and the intake tubing helped a bit. The turbos used in the system are designed with this application in mind. The oil line to the turbo does have a pump... just not one that needs a hole plumbed into your pan, and yeah the oil will be somewhat cooler as it has to go thru a relatively long line, but it wouldnt be so much cooler as to cause the turbo or engine problems. As for the weight transfer, I wont argue that in a Z... if it fits, it is indeed more weight in the rear, where I will likely need it. I definitely like the fact that it isnt in the engine compartment from a heat standpoint, and it is less clutter in there when I need to tear something apart. You want to say everything there is lies, sight unseen. I am saying, I have discussed it with people who have it in their vehicles, and they like it. I dont think the majority of people installing this are looking for 11 or 10 second 1/4's.... Tho there are people doing just that.... and guess what? They have IC's, heavier duty Oil pumping, and fuel management. Just like anyone here, except for the location of the turbo. Also, I havent read about anyone having problems with the location of the intake and water.... tho for trucks there is a "snorkel" option for the wheelwell. In fact, my biggest concern would be the fact that the turbo is mounted after the CAT.... but I dont intend to have one in the first place. Did anyone follow the links to the testing done by the "Industry Types"?? Do you think that if this was all a big lie, you would be able to easily find a thread or article debunking it and warning people away? There are several that I found, but not by people that had tried it, just people who were offended by it. Some of what is written there is "marketing hype".... but it is advertising, what would you expect? http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/October_Sport_Truck_Article.pdf This was a good read, and didnt seem to me to be claiming anything extravegant. In fact, they addressed concerns similar to some in this thread. Are they full of it too? Just wondering.

Actually, I have been looking at that system, and talked to a guy who runs it in his Tacoma. It may not be the "Best" for efficiency, but it is creative, space efficient, requires no IC, (tho there is nothing to prevent you from using one, if you want to run 15 PSI or so, which the system is capable of doing) and it enables a person who just wants a little more "oomf" to get it without adding a lot of heat under the hood, not to mention more complicated plumbing. Take look here for a little more info, and some video http://www.ststurbo.com/home I am considering it for my LSI, after some renovation here.... (widows, doors, siding, roof, new dormer, deck, hot tub, and garage. My poor Z is playing a distant fiddle, doesnt even rate a second right now) I just spent $30,000 on the house, another $20,000 to go and my Z will finally get priority attention. Good news is, most of the home improvments were the GF's idea... so with $40,000 or so spent in her column, my Z column is looking better all the time.

The principal politicized it by insisting on having a Candidate's photo in an american spirit montage.... the parents should ask for his keys, and send him back to college... tho I doubt it would help any more than the first time he went.

Between the compression and the lightened flywheel, It should be snappy, I did a similar upgrade way back, went from a good motor to a higher compression motor with better breathing, light flywheel, centerforce clutch, and 411 rear. Simply put, I was stunned. I had been telling myself not to expect TOO much, and was just hoping I would notice it at all. It put me right in there with the cameros and mustangs of the day. I wouldnt spin long strips unintentionally, = ) but first gear definitely took some getting used to, and I could chirp fourth when really "necessary". 8)

No offence (and I am not offended) but you are not reading my posts closely. Iran is only on the side of the Palestinians so far as it is convenient to them. I never said Iran has done more harm to us in particular, but they have supported or ordered more acts of harm than you are acknowledging. You really need to do some reading before posting stropng opinions like that = ) It is well and good to say things about what we SHOULD do if we are nice and they are nice, but thye are not nice, they dont play nice, and Nations have never played nicely. We cant afford to take a "Jimmy Carter" approach. It is read as weakness in that culture, and they are "religeous" about taking advantage of weakness. If I get some time here I will do some searching For You (lol) and give examples, but what you have said so far is admirable in its spirit, but telling in its general ignorance about about recent history in the middle east, not to mention naive about certain country's intentions. I never said anything about the US's inherent nobility either.... but then, all I am looking for is a strong reaction to terrorism. Do gooders and feel gooders do not earn respect in the middle east, they get taken advantage of, and as much harm as we might have done over there, we are trying to rectify some past mistakes. Once again, no offence meant or taken, but we are not talking about what we would like to happen, but what is likely to happen, and the day Iran turns into Ghandi's retirement home is the day monkeys fly out...... well, you know. tannji

OK, first of all... your post implied that you were talking about Iranian acts against the US, and US acts against Iran. So your list is magnified by including other countries we have acted against.... but it is magnified far more so in my favor, as I can now google for 30 minutes or so, and post as many of the acts of terrorism committed by any country that directly or indirectly either supports terrorism, or utilizes it for political gain. I am not going to do so at this point, but I am taking the position, and I believe many others will support me, The United States spends far more money, time, resources, and LIVES attempting to help other countries than it does engaging in destructive actions. Your depiction of the government of Iran being internally evil and externally benign unless provoked is naive, and coincidently wrong. I am not going to generate another huge post, listing incident by incident exactly how wrong you are (at least not tonight, long day, and I am exhausted) but depending on how this thread proceeds and how much time I have, I may yet. I say again, Iran is widely considered by terrorism experts to be one of the most dangerous and active countries in the world, insofar as as their willingness to finance, train, and support terrorist groups and actions are concerned. Their policy concerning Israel is what concerns us, not the fact that they are developing weapons. Would they Directly attack Israel? Doubtful (to me) but they have and will continue to support and fund those who do. Should they develope a nuclear capacity, how long would it be before that capacity was used by an Iranian terror affiliate? We will never know, because there is absolutely zero chance that Israel will allow it to proceed that far, and Bush is on the same page. Israel has learned the hard way to err on the side of prudence rather than diplomacy, when it comes to dealing with her neighbors.... and it isnt due to a lack of effort. It is entirely in Israels best interest to achieve peace in the region... but not at the cost of her security, and that is the only way the powers that be around her would allow it. I have friends and family in many of the countries in the middle east, and I try to temper my opinions with as much imput as possible from people who live there, in addition to what I can see with my own eyes. I have never heard anything to support your views on Iranian docility or tracability from any of my aquaintances over there... indeed, most people fear Iran as much as they did Iraq under Saddam. Iran is arguably much more dangerous, as it is a seat of religeous authority, and influences all countries in the region, regardless of the individual goverment's intentions.

Absolutely. That's one way to gain resepct and Iraq has tried that repeatedly. Its a very traditional way of gaining resect in the middle east and you're probably 100% correct in assuming that's exactly what the Mullahs in Iran are doing. But, that's a street gang way to respect. My hope is that an Arab country stands up and says, "Islam is not about murder and terrorism. We do not support and will actively hunt down and bring to justice anyone in our country who advocates or commits terrorism in the name of Islam." A statement like that from an Arab country FOLLOWED by real, public action would establish that Arab country as a courageous leader in the eyes of the reast of the world. Unfortunately, we get wimpy monarchies that may say the above in private but publicly encourage the teaching of Wahhabism, privately fund terrorist organizations, and provide sanctuary. Great point. It will NEVER happen without our support, and very few American civilians will really understand that. It is figurative and literal suicide to pursue a "Western" Idealogy in the Middle East, yet we have leaders in Afghanistan and Iraq trying to do so, knowing that they are literally uninsurable as a direct consequence. Makes a pretty bold statement on how SOME people over there perceive the value of our political system, to the point of committing slow suicide by supporting our initiatives. The last thing any fundalmentalist-extremeist wants is an Arab country following in the footsteps of Israel, with a western style democracy, and educated, liberated civilians. They would immediately lose their powerbase, and THAT is what this is about. Dont buy into Any countries vocal support for "our repressed Palestinian brethren"..... The Palestinians are merely a convenient political foil for extremism in the middle east. That being said... we probably should make them OUR political foil, and get them their statehood. But never mind Israel resisting that, all the other countries will sabotage that at every opportunity.... for their own political reasons.

You need to do a little more research before you say they have not attacked us.... at least you backed off the position that they havent supported or originated terrorism. Also, we have commited 2X the number of "bad actions" they have? in our history, or year for year in direct comparison with Iran? Either way, wrong again. Terrorism is the use of force or violence by A PERSON or GROUP to intimidate or achieve political or idealogical goals. When we do it, it is our foreign policy, as decided by an elected government. When we act directly against a group, that is counter-terrorism, when against a country, it is usually war. If Iran used its army or secret service to accomplish its foreign policy, it would lose a war, and badly. The Iranian goavernment uses GROUPS to accomplish its goals in an attempt to maintain deniability, or merely to insure that we dont declare war directly upon Iran... but waste our efforts and resources chasing its agents. What has gotten a few countries (not to mention joe blow internet commentator and self-empowered expert) in an uproar is that the US just changed the rules. We will now hold all involved Countries directly accountable. (I understand that there is controversy over the definition of Terrorist VS Patriot, but there always will be. People have a tendency to define it according to how it affects their country or group) We do or should have issues with how Israel has handled their "Palestinian problem".... But face it... they are combating an Idealogy that is committed to ERASING the Jewish State, not just claiming a state of its own. Both sides are resisting efforts to copmpromise... so I will not completely support either side, nor stand by attempts to paint Israel (and the US, by extension) as the sole responsible party. If not the US, they will always have other candidates for "The Great Satan". I dont condone what was done in the past any more than you do. I probably wont condone everything we do in Iraq (like the prison guard scandal... tho that wasnt a policy issue) But that area has issues that conflict with our own, and physically threaten our interests and assets. There is a permanent power void there, and we can let it fill itself, or have a hand in choosing who is most influential there. Hate reality all you want, heck I dont blame you in the slightest, because I dont like it either, but we stand to regret not being involved there far more than being involved.

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=362 http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/st_terror/iran.htm http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/watch/Policywatch/policywatch1996/212.htm Iran has done a decent job in establishing plausible deniability, but is listed in several estimates as perhaps the greatest contributor to terrorism world-wide. Here is a very interesting read on the US's position regarding Iran, its nuclear pursuits, and terrorism. http://www.state.gov/t/vc/rls/rm/24494.htm No one is denying that various nations (including the US) use their foreign policy to advance their own interests. That is what a foreign policy is for. Trying to villify the US in particular over its policies (and mistakes) in the middle east is disengenuous. Every country that thought it had the means to make its policy stick in the middle east has tried to do so. We are currently at odds with several nations that have a tendency to enact their foreign policy utilizing rerrorist groups, or to fund groups that are actively engaged in attacks on our interests. I do not wish to say anything as dismissive as "Its water under the bridge".... but essentially, the history is what it is. The US is the most likely target now for labeling, but it is by no means the ONLY one. Regardless of how we got where we are today, the issues with terrorism will be dealt with, and it is unfortunate that very few will like how it has to be done. People seem to think that peace and good will are the natural state, and big bad bullies like the US are responsible for disrupting it. That region has been at war in one way or another almost continuously for 3000 years that we know of, and for that matter, so has the rest of the world. North America has been spared much of the typical turmoil, and there are reasons for that. Israel has survived against over whelming numerical odds, and against countries with exponentially greater resources for almost 60 years, and there are reasons for that as well. Eggs are going to get broken.... but to blame the US for a regions problems when that region has had similar problems for most of its history is wrong. I will acknowledge the mistakes the United States had made in general, but that doesnt mean I think we will or should be uninvolved. Someone is going to exert their will on that region, REGUARDLESS..... I support the fact that our government has decided to be involved, and protect some of our interests. I cant think of another country that would put as much effort into TRYING to benefit the local population as much as we do. That effort will cost us more money, time, and lives.... but at least it will be made.

The lightened flywheel will lessen fuel economy... but perhaps the othermods will compensate. I ran CF2 clutch and lightened flywheel in a beefy NA 280 and I loved it, but I saw a significant affect on MPG.....

I hear ya on the extremes the Syrian government is willing to go to, but you lost me on how that means they harbor no terrorists. Syria has been one of the most egregious sponsors of terrorism in the world. I dont know to what extent terrorists are allowed to operate bases in Syria.... but it is all semantics, as a very large number of terror leaders call syria home, and syrian-controlled areas in Lebanon supply any needed real estate for the more humble terrorist henchmen. Here is a very in-depth and informative link that might widen your eyes a bit about terrorism and syria, they have quite a history together. http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/st_terror/syrian_terror.htm One comment on the prospect of HEU processes in the middle east.... the technology is for sale, and there is money laying around. We recently busted Iran on their purchases of supplies for the required centerfuges.... so anything is possible. More to the point.... Terrorists dont necessarily NEED HEU (highly enriched uranium) it is far more likely that they would use a "dirty bomb", which is easily made from conventional explosives, and relatively easily obtainable power plant waste products.

WTF?? too good to be true?

Same here

Love it! The flat black look grows on me every time I see it.

It errors on me, couldnt download codec or something

snicker

Ask some ex-russian-children and find out. They might tell you that living under totalitarian leadership sucks, and that they support what the US is doing.

there is a time and place for forced induction......

Boner is legit = ) I cant imagine boner or woody being offensive to someone who uses the nomer "Pop N Wood" unless there is something else at stake. as for the link.... I already read that, nothing struck me as offensive, but I am not already pissed off at anyone in particular, so I may be a little less sensitive.

would that last post be a flame, or just judisciously close to one? Come on Boner..... if I can reign it in, so can you. Freedom needs to tone it down slightly, but he is correct that he has not been any more extravagent than the replies to him. The moderators do an excellent job here, and dont need EITHER of you telling them how to run the site. It isnt often you can have relatively civil threads like this on politics OR religeon. Lets keep it the way it is, police our own posts, and leave the admin to the admins.

lol! I just deleted a time consuming post in the interest of not pissing any more people off. Everyone has their opinions, and their right to them. I thoroughly enjoyed the post on the historical progression from state citizen to federal, and it was for the most part very well done. 99% of our fellow citizens wouldnt understand it, and most of them wouldnt care. I do not feel that I better or worse off regardless of my citizen status.... I am what I am, and I deal with that. The country is what it is, and I deal with that as well. It is noble and noteworthy to be concerned about our rights.... but I prioritize my anxieties based on different criteria, obviously. We have different situations now than we did in Roosevelt's or Lincoln's day, so I expect the conditions to be different. I pay attention to my quality of life, and proceed accordingly. I do look towards the future, and what may be coming. I agitate about what I think needs attention, and so on and so forth. We live to a higher standard and have more liberties than any other country on earth. There are penalties to pay for that. I am just comfortable with our traditions, and those traditions include some tough times, as well as good. I do not anticipate the gestapo tactics that some here do. Time will tell.

I am arguing your rights are going to be infringed on either way, but the government wont kill you in doing so. If there had been civilians on the planes 9-11 wouldnt have happened??? WTF You REALLY want guns on planes in civilians hands? LMAO!!! Tell ya what, I lived in Denver while Columbine was going on.... (in fact, my room mate was one of the National guard assigned to Columbine security) I'm telling ya, if the students had been given concealed carry permits, Columbine would never have happened... not to mention my kids Right to go to school without going thru a metal detector would still be intact. One step further: If the students at Kent State had weapons, there would never have been a massacre in the first place..... Hell, if the NCAA and Arena's would just allow weapons, Bobby Knight would never have thrown the chair..... By your logic, gas should be $1.00 per gallon right now..... except that we didnt go to Iraq to take over their oil.... (so thats another right the government didnt infringe on when they had the chance) This isnt about whether or not your rights could get violated.... they already can and do. Its about what is more important: your right to surf porn in privacy, or evade taxes, or whatever.... or the rights of the families of 9-11 to expect a more aggressive defense. I asked before, and I ask again.... we know how you feel about your rights, how do you think REAL victims feel about your rights? You are making the assumption that our government not only will invade you, they will frame you... and that they will get away with it, because I dont care. I do care... I hope your rights never get intruded upon. But given the choice, I will vote to lose a few rights, or some of my privacy (temporarily) over allowing another 9-11. I would so dearly love to see you face to face with a mother or father, or even a CHILD of a DEAD american, telling them that your rights are more important than the rights of their deceased loved one. You so easily state your willingness to preserve privacy or rights over the PA and its INTENT.... tell us about your experiences where your LIFE was on the line, so we can attempt to believe your opinions are credible, and would hold true if the fan was blowing excrement in your face, instead of others. I base my "apathy" about the goverment infringing upon our rights on history, not emotion or worst case assumptions about both capability and intent. Rights Will get infringed upon. They have ever since the origin of the concept of rights, and before. What kind of life have you lived that you expect perfection out of government and bureaucracy? I do not know of another nation or political system in history that has a better track record than ours, but you would endanger the body over the rights of one.... that opinion is of course your right, but we would live in a more dangerous place if the country or the world was run that way. Fortunately, at the earliest possible opportunity, the PA will be done away with.... not because it will kill our tradition of rights and liberties, but because there will come a time when it is no longer needed, and some liberal candidate will seize the moment to use it as a campaign cornerstone. Until then, you will enjoy its protection, while enduring vanishingly small odds of ever being violated by its brutal, primitive execution.

I like most of your alternatives..... but I doubt you are anymore a product of the 60's and 70's than I am. In my experience, the 60's and 70 were not all that different than today. The same number of poorly read people spouting opinions based on idealism, the same amount of selfishness taking priority over selflessness. I am of the opinion that the 60's did far more harm to our country than help. It was very distructive to things that are the core of our nation's strength, like values over freedom. (back then freedom meant sex and drugs to the vast majority, so dont misinterpret me there) I WAS a hippie... but then, the average joe doesnt even know what a real hippie was. My parents were in the "active minority", people who tried to make a difference by actions, and left the talking and posturing to others, for the most part. We did things like start functional communes, where the goal was self support and organic lifestyle, in its true meaning. (Didnt leave a lot of time for demonstrations or sit-ins... tho there was some of that as well.) We started food Co-Ops, several of which are still very much alive to this day. There was a lot of potential good going on, a lot of effort for what people valued. Unfortunately.... there were too many talkers and not enough doers. Too many Idealists who took the path they considered the "most right" (or at least talked a good show about it) instead of realists taking the considered, practical path, and valuing their ideals. Not all that different from what we have going on today, to tell you the truth. Anyhow, I may use an Arab as a practical and likely example of the PA in action (as you did) but it doesnt mean I am biased in applying constitutional protection. I would feel the same if it was my neighbor or my friend. Granted, it would be more immediate to me, but I would have the opportunity do try and do something about it. Unlike the majority of members here, I deal with the situation (Arabs in the United states) on a daily and personal basis, as my GF's ex-husband is an Arab Pilot. I hear both sides of the story from him, and more telling, have observed his slightly anti-american attitudes take a huge swing in direction recently. He has had to deal with bias personally... but he is more concerned with the bias he experiences in Syria than he is here. You want police state or groundless prosecution.... he is serving in the Syrian National Airline.... at about 5% of his usual pay..... to keep his father out of jail, and their estate out of government possession. He was investigated very closely right after 9-11 for obvious reasons.... and I was interviewed by the FBI several times. Crazy thing is, he supports the government's actions 100%, but thinks they are being pussies about the whole deal... go figure.