H3nrY Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Hey all I have been having difficulties with the following : 6 months ago i let some people in the UK build me an L28 NA high compression engine with the following specs (i´m not a mechanic but I´ll tell you what they told me): -F54 block with P90A head. block hot tank washed, decked&honed, head is gasflowed & ported, skimmed to both faces, fitted S/steel competition valves, 290degree cam, new lash pads and rocker arms. nismo forged pistons I have a 6-2-1 Janspeed full exhaust system and a (custom) 6-carb manifold setup. compression 10:1 on all cylinders. It produces a good 197 rwhp at 6300rpm (dyno tested), so I estimate around 220-230 on the head. It´s not bad at all, but I would like to have more power. I would have to spend a lot more to get more hp out of the NA engine, which I am not willing to do. I have been thinking about turbo. I would like your opinion on this, before I go charging in. My view is that the pistons would need to be changed to lower the compression? Remove the carb system and add a stable EFI, add a turbo + intercooler & electrics. Does this make sense? Could someone help me on this and if possible, give me a estimate price tag. My goal would be around 300-340 rwhp. I have searched on this, but did not anything that started from a built NA engine.. this is a pic of my current setup: http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010061.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010060.jpg Thanks Hendrik Edited August 26, 2011 by H3nrY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robftw Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hey all I have been having difficulties with the following : 6 months ago i let some people in the UK build me an L28 NA high compression engine with the following specs (i´m not a mechanic but I´ll tell you what they told me): -F54 block with P90A head. block hot tank washed, decked&honed, head is gasflowed & ported, skimmed to both faces, fitted S/steel competition valves, 290degree cam, new lash pads and rocker arms. nismo forged pistons I have a 6-2-1 Janspeed full exhaust system and a (custom) 6-carb manifold setup. compression 10:1 on all cylinders. It produces a good 197 rwhp at 6300rpm (dyno tested), so I estimate around 220-230 on the head. It´s not bad at all, but I would like to have more power. I would have to spend a lot more to get more hp out of the NA engine, which I am not willing to do. I have been thinking about turbo. I would like your opinion on this, before I go charging in. My view is that the pistons would need to be changed to lower the compression? Remove the carb system and add a stable EFI, add a turbo + intercooler & electrics. Does this make sense? Could someone help me on this and if possible, give me a estimate price tag. My goal would be around 300-340 rwhp. I have searched on this, but did not anything that started from a built NA engine.. this is a pic of my current setup: http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010061.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010060.jpg Thanks Hendrik You could get an LD28 Diesel crank out of an 80's maxima and stroke the engine out. KA24E flat top pistons will make it a 3.1l but you have to bore out your block, and you should get some 9mm rods out of a 240z. it will be much cheaper then buying all of the turbo stuff. Its about 1000$ in parts depended where you get them from, i was lucky and got my crank for 70$s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Turbo will always be cheaper per hp than a stroker. The only high horsepower stroker I saw in person made 274hp or something like that. Building the longblock( machine work, porting, crank and pistons etc.) cost the guy more than $10k. He was running megasquirt with EDIS and I don't even know how much more it cost him to set that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hey all I have been having difficulties with the following : 6 months ago i let some people in the UK build me an L28 NA high compression engine with the following specs (i´m not a mechanic but I´ll tell you what they told me): -F54 block with P90A head. block hot tank washed, decked&honed, head is gasflowed & ported, skimmed to both faces, fitted S/steel competition valves, 290degree cam, new lash pads and rocker arms. nismo forged pistons I have a 6-2-1 Janspeed full exhaust system and a (custom) 6-carb manifold setup. compression 10:1 on all cylinders. It produces a good 197 rwhp at 6300rpm (dyno tested), so I estimate around 220-230 on the head. It´s not bad at all, but I would like to have more power. I would have to spend a lot more to get more hp out of the NA engine, which I am not willing to do. I have been thinking about turbo. I would like your opinion on this, before I go charging in. My view is that the pistons would need to be changed to lower the compression? Remove the carb system and add a stable EFI, add a turbo + intercooler & electrics. Does this make sense? Could someone help me on this and if possible, give me a estimate price tag. My goal would be around 300-340 rwhp. I have searched on this, but did not anything that started from a built NA engine.. this is a pic of my current setup: http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010061.jpg http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/H3nrY_/Datsun%20260Z/P1010060.jpg Thanks Hendrik I really like your setup, and those are decent numbers at the wheels. I am assuming that the carbs you are using are motorcycle, correct? Who made the intake manifold, and do you have a thread here on hybrid showing how? Are the pistons flat top? Did they cut the head to get the higher CR? Thanks, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 You would be better off selling that engine as is and building a turbo motor from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 You would be better off selling that engine as is and building a turbo motor from scratch. John, is your statement based on too much cam and compression to make even a low boost turbo set-up-just curious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I dunno, just economics really and it seems a shame to tear down a nicely built NA engine. You can sell that NA engine for, maybe $5,000 complete, and use that money for a new build. If you're modifying the existing engine you're throwing away the intake, exhaust, carbs, cam, and pistons. Maybe you can sell those parts separately but they are worth more as part of a complete engine. I've never been too impressed with a low boost high compression engine. All that extra plumbing and complexity for 5 psi? Might as well just keep the NA engine and spend that additional money on lightening the car and making it handle better. Or start over and build a turbo engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) I'll also add that setup could be of interest in Europe since we do have some classic rally races. People are bored with 911's and start to think about alternatives. Z's are nice choices, this engine could meet Group 4 specifications and make wealthy racers happy as long as you've got all the data that goes with such motors. On the other hand, it is not so easy to find a L28 in Europe to make a turbo engine so it could become a challenge to build a cheap setup. The target you're trying to reach with turbo setup seems also out of range with NA (or close to be). So if it is really what you want, I would advice selling this combo. So keep it and enjoy or go turbo! I don't know who build this engine for you but there's definitely some support for Datsun in UK or France if you like to build such setup Edited August 29, 2011 by Lazeum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 On the other hand, it is not so easy to find a L28 in Europe to make a turbo engine so it could become a challenge to build a cheap setup. it's the same in Australia, most of my turbo bolt on parts came from the US. I assume Nissan sold Nissan Patrols in Europe, some of these had the L28 in them, 160 Series (MQ / MK), 1980–1987 Australia, 260 Series, 1986–1994 , The 260 series was a Spanish-built version of the 160 (easily spotted by the rectangular headlamps) sold in Europe and was available in SWB / LWB and with L28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Patrol Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 You're right, we can find L28 but cars that go with L28 are rare. So no way you'll find a motor at the junkyard. So the only way is to get a car with the engine it. Then it is impossible to part the car out. It happened once or twice somebody would have got 2 cars to make one, then an engine would be available... In Europe, s30 & s130 are quite expensive. A good 240z is worth 15,000 / 20,000 € and a 280zx NA 2+2 around 8,000 € whereas a 280zx rusty shell would be aorund 2,000€. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duragg Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 When I was looking 3 months ago Stroker cranks were $500++ IF you could find one. The whole Stroker setup added a major bump in price for pistons, crank, head gasket, etc and truly only a mild bump in HP which you would quickly grow into and begin to resent. Possible to take your existing setup and put in a put in a 2mm Head Gasket to get the C/R low enough for turbo? I didn't trust myself with a turbo motor so I stayed NA which is pretty hard to blow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H3nrY Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I did find a L28 turbo (unmodified) from a 280ZX turbo, but hes asking 900 euros without ancillaries because, as already stated, these engines are pretty rare. I did not realise though it would be such a large modification to the car when just changing to a turbo engine (exhaust etc..) I´ll see if I can drop something of that price for the turbo engine. Ill check how much i can get for my current engine (has about 1200 km). What do you reckon the price would be for all the changes I´ll have to make to get some decent outputs from the stock turbo engine? thanks all for you input ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 As john said, you're better of selling and starting over from a stock turbo motor. That said though, your compression is probably just about perfect for running E85 if it's available over there. Regarding your last question though, you can get 350whp out of a L28ET (stock 280ZX turbo motor) without taking off the valve cover. Let me rattle of what I can think of off the top of my head. Needed: L28ET Longblock T3/T4 hybrid turbo (or holset or something similarly sized) 500cc+ injectors Manual boost controller Intercooler + plumbing Decent BOV (recirculating type can help with maintaining turbo spool) RRFPR (if using stock EFI) Custom turbo-back exhaust (MSA makes a downpipe for S30 application if you want something over the counter) High pressure fuel filter High pressure fuel pump Recommended: Megasquirt or better aftermarket EFI system Wideband O2 with datalogging capability Fuel Rail Better fuel lines In the US I could purchase all that for under $3k easily, but I'd also be doing a lot of work myself. Since you stated yourself that you're not extremely mechanical you're probably going to have someone else do it, so you're entirely up to the mercy of them and their rate of hire. I personally like the L28ET because if you're on a budget you can get away with changing very little to get to 300hp and it helps keep the budget low. You CAN spend a lot of money doing it "right" but I've seen very few actually put the time and energy in doing it "right". There's many more of us with hobbled together setups using lots of stock parts and making it work. All that said, you can just go get a RB25DET which is much more available in Europe than here, and be done with it. 350whp is a walk in the park and you can even leave the stock turbo in there. Instead of spending $3k on modifying an engine you'll be spending $3k to buy the motor and put it in, and then spending a few bucks on getting someone to tune it. But swaps aren't for everyone. So it's just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotech84 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I was debating on if I should post because all that has been said was what I was thinking. But I just wanted to say WOW that setup looks amazing! Love the work that has been put in there. For not being mechanical ( sounds more like intimidated to me) a turbo build with tearing the old motor down seems like wasted money and time. Not sure how you feel on swaps but as stated the RB, BMW, and Merc straight six's are vital options as well. Most are close to drop in and go. You might get over your mechanical fears while tinkering too! Any who, not sure if the rest of the body looks like the engine bay but you have a great looking under hood area....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Any who, not sure if the rest of the body looks like the engine bay but you have a great looking under hood area....... The rest of the car looks nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The rest of the car looks nice too. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3c0y Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Any reason you havent looked into getting some more head work done and getting a bigger cam? Even if you go turbo you are looking at spending in the thousands more. Maybe a 300 duration 500 liftish cam with the appropriate headwork will give you enough hp to keep you happy? Everything about hotting up Lseries N/A always seems to come back to one thing - how much you can make the head flow. With the forged pistons you will be able to rev it harder too and that's how N/As make power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Are those old Triumph Tiger Carbs (before they went to EFI???) Unique solution indeed. I'm with John Coffey up to the 5psi low boost turbo part... It's amazing the boost response you get in a well ported and cammed engine. But I agree you should just sell it as-is and start another dedicated build. Why go to the UK, doesn't Miroux do that work on the side? They have a nice 240 they run at Spa 6 Hours every year. Though I'm apparently banned from their pits (as well as Frank 280ZX) after questioning the F54 block "L24" they SWEAR they are using to run times equivalent to GT350 Shelby's around the course there... Speaking of which, if you go to Spa Sept 23,24,25 look for me, I should be there! Hanging around the S30's that show up for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Not trying to be too sarcastic, but this IS Hybridz, why not put in a more modern alternative, such as an RB25 or 1JZ? It might wind up costing about the same, in your case, easier to source, with better technology & more power. I don't know about the legality in your area though...Plenty of 1JZ's have made more than 300 rwhp with only a downpipe, intake & free flowing exhaust as mods...and the response is incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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