280Dan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hey everyone, I have a '77 280 that I'm looking to swap a motor into in the near future. I tried to do some searching but didn't find what I was looking for in terms of build suggestions based on the head/block combo I have. I'll give you guys as much insite as to what I'm looking to do as I can. What I have: I purchased a bare F54 block with crank and a bare P90 head. I have not had either checked yet in terms of cylinder condition, valve guides, etc. Goals: The car is my daily driver and I want to go the turbo route. It will be my first turbo'd car and build so I'm aiming around a safe but fun 250-300whp range to start. I'm not worried about emmisions so I know I want to have a pretty cleaned up intake manifold and overall as simple a setup as possible. I want to go distributorless. RELIABILITY (I'm a pretty aggresive driver so although I'm not looking for crazy power I want it be able to handle some weekend abuse etc). I know I would eventually like a custom equal length tubular manifold but we'll just start with the OEM one I guess. My technical background: I've been a Mercedes Benz tech for 4 years. I've already rebuilt my current motor in the Z when it spun a bearing a couple years back. So most of the build will be done by myself unless it's machine shop work. Budget: Exactly that. It's going to be a budget build. I understand I can't have all the best when were talking budget build but that's why I made the choice to build an L28ET. I was able to get the block crank and head for an unbeatable deal and I know it's a great motor. I was searching for Austin Hoke's old build thread to use as somewhat of a guide because I had the pleasure of meeting him and his buddy Gabe, who has his old turbo L28 in his Z, at ZDayZ 2 years ago. And I got to take a ride in Gabe's Z and it put a smile on my face from ear to ear. So what I'm looking for from you guys is helpful suggestions on brands to use, engine management, order of building, turbo setup, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm surprised that nothing came up in a search because this very subject has been discussed a gazillion times. "Budget build" means different things to different people. Do you have a number in mind? Stick with the stock exhaust manifold unless you are looking for 500+ hp, Megasquirt is the most budget friendly engine management. EDIS for distributorless ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Seriously the stock ex mani will do even more than 500hp. If you want distributorless you have to go with megasquirt. If you want to go distributor less you would probably want to regrind your cam for more top end( the stock dizzy should be good till 6500rpm). Spend money on porting the head and intake. But you could get 300hp from a stock system( upgraded turbo with an intercooler) with just megaquirt keeping the dizzy. This has been discussed a lot. This thread may get locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Dan Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Really? I'm not new to forums so I know to search before posting a new thread but I haven't ever come across a thread pertaining to the P90 F54 combo. I had a feeling it was going to seem like a redundant post but I couldn't find anything. As far as the cam, I was planning on buying a stage 2 perhaps. And then as far as the EDIS set up, what do you do about the spot the distributor sat in? I was thinking about using the bracket zccjdm.com has for the coil packs. What about fuel system? Upgraded pump? Rail? Injectors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes. Really. It's all been discussed over and over. No need to repeat it here again. Edited January 21, 2012 by rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Dan Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Alright FAIL on my part then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianZortiz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Like stated there are many post about this subject. Go to forum FAQ and you will find a lot of info. Edited January 21, 2012 by brianZortiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 P90 / F54 is the stock Nissan turbo engine combination. The pistons and heads are the main differences between engines. The blocks probably don't get identified because they are all very similar. As noted above, there are some turbo-oriented threads in the FAQ section, L6 Engine forum - http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/50208-the-ultimate-l28et-guidewhat-n you-need-for-350whp/ http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/38461-240z-260z-280z-turbo-swap-guide/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Dan Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks! Those links are perfect. Mods can delete this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The threads live forever, for the next guy's search. Good luck with your build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 **and for the next guys search who refuses to click above links** rebuild head to stock (since it's bare) add stock turbo manifolds ms 1 or 2 + EDIS add fuel add boost voila!!! intercooler, BOV and other turbo supporting mods would be a no-brainer Shortest informative post of the month for me! w00t!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaofox Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dan! I remember your z at streetwars! It was nice meeting you and your wife (or girlfiend?). I at the time had the super white 300zxtt with the tints and black interior with the tsw snettertton wheels. I hope to see this build finished! I usually just see your z at streetwars since you said you were close to it. I just picked up a 76 280z in oct . Cant wait to see some progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 EDIS is completely unnecessary, MS can do coil packs natively. The only way I'd use EDIS is if I was starting with an engine that had it stock, it adds some complexity and wiring to the system with very little benefit. I'd use either a crank trigger or the new DIYautotune wheel for the stock dizzy and LS1 coils(keep the dizzy just for the optical sensor, not for distributing spark energy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 EDIS is completely unnecessary, MS can do coil packs natively. The only way I'd use EDIS is if I was starting with an engine that had it stock, it adds some complexity and wiring to the system with very little benefit. I'd use either a crank trigger or the new DIYautotune wheel for the stock dizzy and LS1 coils(keep the dizzy just for the optical sensor, not for distributing spark energy). All very true, the EDIS setup is just plain easier though and removes some of the complexity. That's all. Those new trigger disks for the dizzy sure look interesting though! I'd be really interested to see some logs going up to 8k to see if there's any signal noise/scatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 How does EDIS make things easier? You need to wire power, ground, and the sensor to the box, and then 2 more signal wires to the ecu, and mount the box. To have MS run the coils directly you need to run the sensor to the ecu. I left out wiring for the coils because it's similar for both. Having MS run things directly gives you greater selection of coils as well, namely LS1 coils. The software setup for either is about equally as challenging. The optical sensor is VERY similar to the RB, so there shouldn't be much scatter from the change in the disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Because, if you're doing wasted as per suggested by the MS resources then running an inline 6 with 3 coil outputs for wasted spark operation on ether the V2.2 or V3.0 boards then they suggest wiring in a new connected, like a DB15, because the traces won't support the current draw. Maybe that's changed with some revisions that I'm unaware of, just going by what I've read. If I recall correctly they also suggest mounting the drivers you'll be using for the coil triggers one the topside of your case to remove it from the circuit board. EDIS simplifies it by having good, quality drivers right out of the box and a simpler configuration on the MS side. Yes it's more wires, but it's the "tried and true" method that more people take from what I've seen. I honestly wish more people would go with MS directly driving coils as we'd know the real world performance and limitations that brings the people doing the write ups to suggest these modifications as "required". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) i love the LS coils and i make a disy with rb 30 crank sencer and run a haltec or motec and have now problem with spark i run E85 fuel with 28psi well over 600hp at the wheels Edited January 22, 2012 by PMC raceengines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Wow, that looks incredibly complex for 600 HP, or is the plenum one the 600+ unit? The ITB looks N/A. That HP can be had at half that boost (15-17psig) and with a stock L28ET intake manifold that took a little trip to extrude hone! That one used a Z32 ECU with matching Z32 trigger wheel-the Nissan optical triggers (at least the Z32 JeffP tested) were stable with no spark anomalies and reliable triggering to 12,000 Dizzy speed (that's 24K crankshaft speed!!!) Nissan made some really good optical triggers! Edited January 22, 2012 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Wow, that looks incredibly complex for 600 HP, or is the plenum one the 600+ unit? The ITB looks N/A. That HP can be had at half that boost (15-17psig) and with a stock L28ET intake manifold that took a little trip to extrude hone! That one used a Z32 ECU with matching Z32 trigger wheel-the Nissan optical triggers (at least the Z32 JeffP tested) were stable with no spark anomalies and reliable triggering to 12,000 Dizzy speed (that's 24K crankshaft speed!!!) Nissan made some really good optical triggers! heheh tony your figers are out of control your best l28 na is over 400hp and when its in oz it makes 290hp engine and 240 at the wheels the NA engine in the pic is a 13.5 comp race motor and makes 330hp eng and smashes the rebelo race engine that is over 400hp in the US the turbo engine will mach any you have in the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Because, if you're doing wasted as per suggested by the MS resources then running an inline 6 with 3 coil outputs for wasted spark operation on ether the V2.2 or V3.0 boards then they suggest wiring in a new connected, like a DB15, because the traces won't support the current draw. Maybe that's changed with some revisions that I'm unaware of, just going by what I've read. If I recall correctly they also suggest mounting the drivers you'll be using for the coil triggers one the topside of your case to remove it from the circuit board. EDIS simplifies it by having good, quality drivers right out of the box and a simpler configuration on the MS side. Yes it's more wires, but it's the "tried and true" method that more people take from what I've seen. I honestly wish more people would go with MS directly driving coils as we'd know the real world performance and limitations that brings the people doing the write ups to suggest these modifications as "required". LS1 coils are logic level driven, they have the ignitor built in, the signal wire carries next to no current. I'll be running directly driven LS1 truck coils with the DIY wheel at some point in the near(ish) future, I'll report back with how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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