Modern Car most like an S30 ?

[Leon]

FRS is nice, but if you're looking to not pay too much depreciation finding one a year old already and for sale will be difficult, and will still drop a bit in value over the next 3 years. And no matter what it won't be under 10k....

 

The miata seems like the clear leader in this catagory, but I feel it's still a LONG ways off from being anything like a vintage Z. Most like a Z built today in the mass production market? Maybe.

 

Personally I'd look at something older and find a really clean example. You can find a FD under 10k in good shape. The FC is also a killer car for what they go for and they fit an LS1 nicely still But you might not like the idea of a project, and in all reality even though a 20 year old car might have low miles you should still go through the car looking at bushings and such because there's items that will wear over time, not just miles.

 

I'd scratch the WRX off your list. They're wonderful, but nothing like a Z...

I'd skip the RSX all together and find a Type R if you're going that route...

BMW Z3 feels like a big since it's so heavy for it's size, which leaves you feeling gypped when you drive it.

Audi TT is so bloated it makes me wonder where your head is at get a mustang instead if you're considering something in this weight range...

The crossfire was a good idea, that never caught on thus the car never really got refined the way it deserved

The RX8 is a great car that has that magical mazda feel when it comes to cornering, but it still feels like a 4 door to me when I drive them. If you can get around that sedan-ness the car has it's a wonderful all around performer that's hard to ignore.

 

 

It's a bit out of your budget but the genesis coupe is hard to ignore. It's a well equipped car for not much money and definitely has enough power to be fun. Many note that hyundai's cars still lack something in the character department, but I can make comparisons to MANY cars people buy that I feel the same about...

 

The S2000 is a great car, but I still feel they're overpriced, even in the used market. I'll probably never personally own a S2000 for that reason, as the fanboys will never let prices come down into the real world.

 

Another interesting older car in that price range is the MR2. Definitely "different" but I'd say it's more like the S30 than the WRX or RSX... Getting hard to find those really clean examples though that are really worth paying the premium for a low mileage older car.

 

Also, if you're willing to forgive some weight like you are with the Audi, look at the RWD lexus cars, like the IS and the SC, both of which are great cars for modifying and come with wonderful powerplant options. No manual for the V8, but the auto isn't terrible if you don't abuse it, and the other option is the 2JZ, which you can't really complain about as a bad option either....

 

The funny thing is that I see people looking for pretty much this same exact fantasy quite often, but there really just isn't a great replacement for a vintage RWD car like the S30, which has more character (in my humble opinion) in just it's bumper than most modern cars in their entire lineup. Cars are made for the average idiot these days that just wants a car to go from A to B in the most comfortable and fashionable way possible. They're also made to the most ridiculous safety standards that force designers to work around extremely limiting structures. If you want an old car, buy an old car.

 

/rant off.

 

Sounds like you've never driven an S2000. I can change that.

 

I think the price is very reasonable for what you get, but I got mine at the start of 2012 so they may be a bit more expensive now. Still, an advertised price is not typically the sale price. I looked at a few cars before I got mine and could've had an AP1 w/ 80k miles for $10k (clean title but had dents and needed some maintenance).

 

My vote goes to an S2000. It will be the only Honda CAR I am willing to own.

 

S2k's can be found for under $10k but they are beat, generally you can find a private party one going for $12k, but with more milage than you are looking for. 

 

I think you can still find a nicely taken-care of AP1 for $10k. It'll have over 100k miles but with good maintenance it'll go for another 150-200k. It's a typical Honda in that department.

 

But enough of me trying to talk it up. It's a great car and if you can find one in good shape close to $10k, it may be worth at least checking out to see what you think.

[tfreer85]

I'll keep my out for an S2000 just in case.  I'm not too hopeful for them, but I know they are great cars.  Thanks all! Much appreciated.

[Lazeum]

My dad had got a Z3 coupe with 3.0L. The car felt very close to the z in term of behavior with seats close to rear drivetrain. Power wise, it was close to my previous L28. It was just more refined.

 

I had also a Silvia s14, 200 sx with sr20det in Europe. Handling, stock, was very bad.

 

S2000 would have my vote also but I'm 6"2 with 210lbs. I don't fit inside. It is just impossible to heel-toe, double clutch. Same goes for Miata, fun but way to small inside.

 

Over priced & very expensive to maintain but my best car was a Mitsu Evo, handling, power, 4 seats. It was great.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Lazeum

[Leon]

My dad had got a Z3 coupe with 3.0L. The car felt very close to the z in term of behavior with seats close to rear drivetrain. Power wise, it was close to my previous L28. It was just more refined.

I will say that the E36 M Coupe is also a fantastic car and reminds me of the S30, except with a lot more refinement. I almost got one but maintenance and price drove me away. I haven't driven a Z3 Roadster so can't comment there.

 

Now that I think about it, an E36 M3 fits the bill great! Find a '98 and call it close enough.

 

S2000 would have my vote also but I'm 6"2 with 210lbs. I don't fit inside. It is just impossible to heel-toe, double clutch. Same goes for Miata, fun but way to small inside.

I'm 6'2", 200lb and fit nice and snug. I sit a bit high though but there is space to drop the seat down an inch with custom brackets. I've had no issues with heel-toe downshifting, you have to realize it's set up for heavy braking rather than heel-toeing on the daily commute (which I love to do anyway ).

 

Now Miatas are just absolutely tiny, no way do I fit in those!

[RTz]

I will say that the E36 M Coupe is also a fantastic car and reminds me of the S30, except with a lot more refinement. I almost got one but maintenance and price drove me away. I haven't driven a Z3 Roadster so can't comment there.

 

Now that I think about it, an E36 M3 fits the bill great! Find a '98 and call it close enough.

 

I've put about 60K miles on my '98 M3 over the last 3 years. Stock for stock, the M will KILL an S30 in darn near any performance category. It's been one of the better cars I've owned. BUT... it's pretty boring and, while it does generate a lot of grip, you always feel like you're forcing it. It doesn't have that anxious "play play play" feel that you get in an lightly modded S30. In my opinion its a darn good car, but it's not nearly as fun as some cars. Heck, my winter beater is an '88 Civic with stud-less snow tires mounted all year long... and it's more FUN to drive

[T-Bone028]

Maybe it's out of your Budget, but why sell the Z? If I had to, I would buy a "beater" used sentra/Hyundai/civic/versa/sub-compact car etc.

 

While I'm sure you have your reasons to sell, you'll never get it back once it's gone. A $150 car payment for a 6-7k car w AC and solid MPG would be worth it to me. Change the insurance on the Z to classic car insurance and your annual cost to own becomes minuscule.

 

FWIW, my "daily" is an Xterra (which I love) and I'm thinking about getting a beater to add to the fleet to save on gas!

[rayaapp2]

BMW Z4. Looks and feels like a well setup S30... My 260Z drove almost identical for daily/spirited driving.

Price used is around $23K+ though.

I like the M3 as well if that's more in the price range. Id consider the S2000, but I have a Datsun 2000 and Im American so I need at least 2 more cylinders or Im not happy. BTW I have driven a 435hp S2000(centrifugal supercharged!). Its a cool car, just not my thing.

[Gollum]

Sounds like you've never driven an S2000. I can change that.

 

I've driven ONE S2000, which is far less than the other cars I gave my input on, I admit. But I could just never get around that FOR WHAT THE PRICE IS, it's just meh. If Mazda offered a Miata for near or over 40k you can bet it'd rival the S2k in just about EVERY way. But they've never wanted to target their market that high. Even the turbocharged version didn't near S2k prices. In all honesty I just don't see it as that much better of a place to start as a platform, unless you're just willing to spend the extra money to save time and energy to start at a higher level of performance all around, which is a perfectly valid reason and opinion to like them and buy one. Just doesn't excite me which is something I want a car to do, ESPECIALLY if it's replacing a S30....

 

Now Miatas are just absolutely tiny, no way do I fit in those!

Maybe YOU haven't driven enough miatas I'm 6' and 200 lbs now and have never had an issue climbing into a miata, especially the new ones. The latest revision that you can find for decent used prices now is quite room and I feel 5'-10" to 6'2" is the sweet spot that they designed it for. It's definitely geared towards the american market. And remember, the S30 is fairly tight too, which is something many of us like about it. I'm sure you understand, since you drive a S2k.

 

I've put about 60K miles on my '98 M3 over the last 3 years. Stock for stock, the M will KILL an S30 in darn near any performance category. It's been one of the better cars I've owned. BUT... it's pretty boring and, while it does generate a lot of grip, you always feel like you're forcing it. It doesn't have that anxious "play play play" feel that you get in an lightly modded S30. In my opinion its a darn good car, but it's not nearly as fun as some cars. Heck, my winter beater is an '88 Civic with stud-less snow tires mounted all year long... and it's more FUN to drive

 

Bold quotations for highlight of truth. Ron explained my issue with the Z3 platform as a whole. They're just not a DRIVERS car, which is hilarious because that's something the M3 has always killed at, so you'd have thought the M Coupe at least of all Z3 cars would be golden....

 

BMW Z4. Looks and feels like a well setup S30... My 260Z drove almost identical for daily/spirited driving.

Price used is around $23K+ though.

I like the M3 as well if that's more in the price range. Id consider the S2000, but I have a Datsun 2000 and Im American so I need at least 2 more cylinders or Im not happy. BTW I have driven a 435hp S2000(centrifugal supercharged!). Its a cool car, just not my thing.

 

Exactly why I didn't bring up the Z4. Way out of budget range we're talking about for the most part. Hard to find them even for S2k money, and they're going to be expensive to work on once they start breaking.

 

 

 

To OP: I'd also look in to turn of the millennium M3's. I know they're not a 2 seater, but they're more of a drivers car, more fun, and more just all around awesome than many of the cars we've been talking about. After Ray's post I couldn't ignore the recommendation. There just hasn't been a bad variant of the M3...

[Domzs]

What about the Hyundai Genesis Coupe ?

[rayaapp2]

Exactly why I didn't bring up the Z4. Way out of budget range we're talking about for the most part. Hard to find them even for S2k money, and they're going to be expensive to work on once they start breaking.

 

 

Im a cheap bastard, but there are a lot of those Z4's here for sale used! Initial budget: agreed, Repairs? No way, only if your dumb enough to buy from the dealer. Ive had the '06 3series for 5 years now(its the 5th bmw Ive owned). Over a 120K miles now. I drive that car mercilessly ever chance I get. Other than brakes, tires, and oil changes, Ive spent probably about $220 on parts like a wheel bearing, Front TC bushings, angle eye replacement bulbs(which were $100!), and I used only Genuine BMW parts! I bring this up because if the M3 becomes the choice that argument can also be used about repairs! You gotta look around on the BMW forums, and use google and you will find places that sell genuine OE parts or the same price or less than the cost of the aftermarket replacements. I only wish we had the real S52 engine here in the M3(the one they got in Europe).

[Leon]

I've driven ONE S2000, which is far less than the other cars I gave my input on, I admit. But I could just never get around that FOR WHAT THE PRICE IS, it's just meh. If Mazda offered a Miata for near or over 40k you can bet it'd rival the S2k in just about EVERY way. But they've never wanted to target their market that high. Even the turbocharged version didn't near S2k prices. In all honesty I just don't see it as that much better of a place to start as a platform, unless you're just willing to spend the extra money to save time and energy to start at a higher level of performance all around, which is a perfectly valid reason and opinion to like them and buy one. Just doesn't excite me which is something I want a car to do, ESPECIALLY if it's replacing a S30....

There are no more new S2k's, and even then, you could get a new one for $30k a few years ago. I believe the Mazdaspeed Miata was about $25k.

 

For what S2k's go for as used cars, it's an amazing car for the money! Mine is completely stock and I don't feel like I need to change anything on that car, besides dropping the seat down. It's still raw, yet way more refined than the S30.

 

Maybe YOU haven't driven enough miatas I'm 6' and 200 lbs now and have never had an issue climbing into a miata, especially the new ones. The latest revision that you can find for decent used prices now is quite room and I feel 5'-10" to 6'2" is the sweet spot that they designed it for. It's definitely geared towards the american market. And remember, the S30 is fairly tight too, which is something many of us like about it. I'm sure you understand, since you drive a S2k.

You're right, I haven't driven many and it's because I don't fit! At 6'2" and 200lb, both the S30 and S2000 give me some headroom issues, but the legs fit great. The Miata attempts to decapitate me while holding my legs hostage at the same time! I fit OK in the passenger seat, but the top has to be up. The Miata just does not have a good driving position for my body, whereas the S2k almost fits me like a glove. Shoot, the S30 is spacious in comparison to both of these cars!

 

Bold quotations for highlight of truth. Ron explained my issue with the Z3 platform as a whole. They're just not a DRIVERS car, which is hilarious because that's something the M3 has always killed at, so you'd have thought the M Coupe at least of all Z3 cars would be golden....

I LOVED driving the E36 M Coupe. I still want one...

 

The M3 is a jewel as well. However, the E36 will eat cooling systems and suspension bushings/shock mounts so care must be taken to purchase one in good shape and to keep it that way.

[R3VO 3VOM]

Great minds think alike! Although I have no idea how you fit in there. I'm 6'2" and I'm looking into getting lower seat rails to be more comfortable and not have to duck down to see traffic lights. This is with an OEM hardtop which already gives me another inch or so of headroom. A "wider" person will have trouble fitting the bolstered seats and getting in and out can be difficult. With that said, it's a small sacrifice (for me) to make for such a fantastic car!

Well it's an AP2. If that means anything. Never really sat in an AP1, but they look sorta smaller-ish. Like the miata and the MX5. I fit in the MX5 but not the miata; my knees touch the dash unless there is a race seat installed. I've driven my buddies race miata with the seat bolted to the floor with stock dash and I fit nicely.

 

But for price, if you mod the seat in the miata, it is defintely one of the better options. So many mods and such. So many parts. And they aren't terrible in reliability.

With that being said, I just got home form getting gas and while I was there, a miata serves in and parks. The driver and jumps out, lifts the hood, and a huge cloud of steam comes out.  

[JMortensen]

I bought a 99 Miata (10th Anniversary model) last year, and I love the way it handles, but it badly needs more balls and I don't want to get into serious mods on it until the Z is done. Aside from minivans blowing my doors off on freeway onramps (no joke) it is without a doubt the funnest car I've ever driven. The factory Bilstein suspension leaves a lot to be desired in terms of ride, but when you turn the wheel the thing just turns in, which is something you really have to fight a Z to get it to do. I've driven an MX-5 and it had a LOT more power, although nothing like my triple carbed Z had, but didn't turn in quite as well as my 99. Don't know what tires he was on though, and I've got the super sticky 195/50/15 Toyo R1R's. Sending the shocks back to Bilstein pretty soon and I'm hoping I'll have better handling and ride with a lower ride height and be able to dial in some more neg camber when I get them back.

 

I had to cut some foam out of the seat, Miata guys call this a foamectomy, in order to be able to put my helmet on under the soft top. It would be a lot nicer car to drive with seats that are 2-3 inches lower. I'm 6' 185, BTW. Left knee can't fit between the steering wheel and the door panel either. It's cramped.

[Leon]

Well it's an AP2. If that means anything. Never really sat in an AP1, but they look sorta smaller-ish. Like the miata and the MX5. I fit in the MX5 but not the miata; my knees touch the dash unless there is a race seat installed. I've driven my buddies race miata with the seat bolted to the floor with stock dash and I fit nicely.

 

But for price, if you mod the seat in the miata, it is defintely one of the better options. So many mods and such. So many parts. And they aren't terrible in reliability.

With that being said, I just got home form getting gas and while I was there, a miata serves in and parks. The driver and jumps out, lifts the hood, and a huge cloud of steam comes out.  

 

Mine is an AP2 as well. I sit the lowest in an AP1 and highest in '06 and up AP2. I think it's a function of how old the foam is, plus the '06+ got different seats. Otherwise, the AP1 and AP2 are identical in size.

 

Not sure what you guys mean about MX-5 vs. Miata, since they're the same car. It's like trying to differentiate an S30 and a 240Z.

 

Miatas do seem like a fun sandbox though, if you can fit.

[Xnke]

Take a look at the Saturn Sky Redline. It feels similar to a Z on the road; the interior is quite a bit different, but the shift quality is decent and the engine is *very* responsive. Also, 10K is not a hard price to find on a Sky, since they aren't made anylonger.

[JMortensen]

Not sure what you guys mean about MX-5 vs. Miata, since they're the same car. It's like trying to differentiate an S30 and a 240Z.

 

They did change the model name in the US in 2006. It was Miata before in the states and MX-5 everywhere else. Now it is MX-5 everywhere. Look at an NC and you won't see "Miata" on it anywhere. It's just an easier way to differentiate for people who aren't familiar with NA, NB, and NC.

[R3VO 3VOM]

Mine is an AP2 as well. I sit the lowest in an AP1 and highest in '06 and up AP2. I think it's a function of how old the foam is, plus the '06+ got different seats. Otherwise, the AP1 and AP2 are identical in size.

 

Not sure what you guys mean about MX-5 vs. Miata, since they're the same car. It's like trying to differentiate an S30 and a 240Z.

 

Miatas do seem like a fun sandbox though, if you can fit.

Sorry. meant the third gen NC miata. I've only every heard them referred to as "MX5"'s whereas the others are more "Miata"'s.

 

 

 

Take a look at the Saturn Sky Redline. It feels similar to a Z on the road; the interior is quite a bit different, but the shift quality is decent and the engine is *very* responsive. Also, 10K is not a hard price to find on a Sky, since they aren't made anylonger.

I've always been kinda on the fence about these. They, and the solstice, are nice cars. But that wrinkle in the top on the back part is so ugly. It should be pulled tight like ferrari's and such. To me it looks like they just got lazy.

Edited May 18, 2013 by R3VO 3VOM

[R3VO 3VOM]

 

Mighty car mods says the miata is the best bang for the buck driving experience. haha. So fitting for this. First few minutes of the video.

Marty agrees is it "SO SO slow".

Edited May 18, 2013 by R3VO 3VOM

[cjack300zx]

Why not just get another Z. The 90s 300ZX twin turbo can be had with several mods and all options you listed for under 10K. The only down fall of the Z32 is it is difficult to work on but if a idiot like me can do it then so could you. Go test drive one I'll bet you will be impressed

[Mikelly]

We installed a Flyin' Miata turbo kit and Megasquirt PNP on a 90 Miata and that car was an absolute blast to drive. They are great fun and cheap to run and maintain if you can fit in them.

 

I have never liked the S2000 power delivery. It is gutless below 6k and I just never enjoyed that coupled with the position of the steering wheel in your lap. The Z4 is less nimble than the Z3, but BMW in general would be off my list due to cost of parts and their finicky nature.

 

Happy hunting.