A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)

[rossman]

Congrats!

[Zetsaz]

Between the all the transmission and finalizing the last few pieces of the engine I've been working on this thing almost all my free time and the baby mistakes are adding up. That being said here's the engine bay update, now with completed charge piping and some mediocre wiring and vacuum hoses I plan to redo completely and tidy up at some point.

 

Next steps, some of which are just fixing my own mistakes are:

 

-Get new shift knob at my door because I've been running without haha. Datsun threads are M8 and all the later Nissans use M10

 

-Check and adjust oil feed. Dripping just a bit while running

 

-Adjust exhaust more. Occasionally starts rattling. May just need to tighten the hangers at the back.

 

-Tighten couplers.... Only made 3psi boost earlier because I didn't have the couple on the throttle tightened 🤦🏻

 

-Make top bracket(s) for intercooler. Just running some flimsy brackets on bottom. Charge piping is helping keep it stable but it shouldn't have to

Edited May 17, 2022 by Zetsaz

[Dat73z]

Looks great! How are you liking the turbo versus na? 😁

[Zetsaz]

15 minutes ago, Dat73z said:

Looks great! How are you liking the turbo versus na? 😁

 

Not entirely sure yet because I've only barely made boost. Was making like 3psi yesterday and realized a couple clamps weren't tight. This morning when I felt like I was ready to try a short pull in first I didn't even hit peak boost because the coupler on the compressor housing got blown off haha. 

 

I think I DEFINITELY want to go with flat top pistons on this eventually to help the off boost responsiveness, but part me almost wants to go with an ITB 3UZ in the super long run if this thing ever blows. I kind of like the simplicity of NA.... that or I'm just used to it and will completely changed my my mind once this thing is properly dialed in.

 

Turbo noises are definitely satisfying though  

[Jboogsthethug]

Dang man it looks awesome! I'm stoked you're getting back on the road! I'm interested to see how the turbo ends up treating you!

[Dat73z]

@Zetsaz I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun once you get it all sorted. You have some good mods and the compression to crank the boost 😁. Post up some videos once you get it dialed in!

[Zetsaz]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:05 AM, Jboogsthethug said:

Dang man it looks awesome! I'm stoked you're getting back on the road! I'm interested to see how the turbo ends up treating you!

 

Okay now that I'm making boost and starting to work on the VE maps it's SO fun. Took a break from tuning and engine stuff last night to install the headliner. What I thought would be 2-3 hours took 7... fortunately it turned out mostly  okay, especially for a DIY job and the noise levels are noticeably better now that a bunch of holes in the car (wiring etc) that technically lead right outside aren't pumping wind and exhaust noise into the cabin.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 12:26 PM, Dat73z said:

@Zetsaz I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun once you get it all sorted. You have some good mods and the compression to crank the boost 😁. Post up some videos once you get it dialed in!

 

They are good mods.... because I hit 20psi yesterday according to my data logs with no issues haha. This is technically a bad thing because it means I'm over boosting. Not sure if I have the actuator arm just a couple turns too tight or if it has a leak somewhere. Might try to figure out a way to test the Tial actuator with my air compressor. There's also the small chance I was shipped the wrong one. I'll check the part numbers and make sure I wasn't accidentally sent their 22psi actuator instead of the 10psi I ordered. 

 

Anyway, here's a poor vertical video I sent my brother of some baby pulls i was doing on a a rural dead end road with a looooong straight. Wide open and super convenient for some mild testing. Including my squeaky clutch i fixed when i got home.

Didn't even get it to 5k here. Once I was comfortable that the charge pipes were holding the pressure I pushed it a bit more in 1st and second after double checking the VE map. Took it to about 5.5k getting onto the interstate and honestly it pulls SO much harder than expected, but that may just be the 22psi haha. The block was fully balanced by Top End including the balanced crankshaft according to the build sheet I managed to get, and the basic cam info I got supposedly claims a 7200 redline on the cam... can't imagine what that's like since I haven't even hit 6k yet while tuning

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Zetsaz

[Dat73z]

Dude that is so sick! Looks like it pulls hard

 

Yeah def check the spring. Also not sure if you'll run into this but with the ultimate internal wastegate my engine was seeing boost creep on the dyno so the port on the hot side got hogged out and I took out a bit more just to be sure. 

 

What're you running for your rear end? 3.54? 

 

By creep I mean with a 10lb spring it was getting up to 15+ by redline I believe but on a 3.2

Edited May 19, 2022 by Dat73z

[Zetsaz]

27 minutes ago, Dat73z said:

Dude that is so sick! Looks like it pulls hard

 

Yeah def check the spring. Also not sure if you'll run into this but with the ultimate internal wastegate my engine was seeing boost creep on the dyno so the port on the hot side got hogged out and I took out a bit more just to be sure. 

 

What're you running for your rear end? 3.54? 

 

By creep I mean with a 10lb spring it was getting up to 15+ by redline I believe but on a 3.2

Pretty sure I have the same Tial actuator you have. Other than your stroker setup, I think some of our stuff is very similar at this point. I'm not sure I should be seeing a bit over 20psi if you were seeing 15, especially since I haven't even taken it close to redline. Need to get a boost gauge so I don't have to stare at a screen to monitor it. It's part of the reason I'm playing it so safe right now. Can't just eyeball a gauge. 

 

Rear end is is a 3.9 CLSD from a Z31.

 

Not sure I wanna go through the trouble of pulling the turbo to open up the hot side right now, but if everything else checks out I'll consider that down the line. For now, I think my stock compression, plus the top end of my VE map running a bit rich, plus my timing and AFR targets being safe maps from @Chickenmanwill keep things safe even if I'm boosting more than expected. Just won't take it to redline at all in case it creeps even more. 

[Jboogsthethug]

that video is awesome! I bet that is a lot of fun to drive, it's going to be so cool to have it finished and just enjoy it again!

 

[AydinZ71]

Have you tried running it (just for shits and giggles) with the downpipe only? These motors sound like a mean diesel truck when paired with a turbo. I remember that was the most common comment I got.

 

Apologies, I have not been following your posts very closely. I thought I eyed an internal wastegate. I don't recommend running the motor much past 6krpm. Once you get it tuned, you will notice these motors tend to lose torque quite dramatically towards 6-7k rpm, unless you are progressively adding boost to balance traction and maintain a flat curve. That gets back to the 2-valve and head flow restrictions. These motors are torque MONSTERS when paired w/ a turbo (for their era). My biggest issue was breaking the tires loose at 3500rpm (even in 2nd gear) when the boost came-on realllly strong. You are probably familiar with some of the cooling issues running high HP numbers, and unfortunately those are internal design limitations that are difficult to improve upon. The popular head mod which adds cooling lines to the 5th and 6th cylinder heads (directly) does help but not as much as you need to maintain cylinder temps at high boost and high rpm.

 

All this to say, i recommend spending most of your time at the peak torque curve vs. peak HP. In my experience, I had a lot of time keeping cylinder temps reasonable when boosting near redline. You will still have tons of fun and your rings will last longer (ask me how I know). For me, this was shifting right around 5500-6000.

 

Good luck buddy, and she sounds great!  

[Zetsaz]

37 minutes ago, AydinZ71 said:

Have you tried running it (just for shits and giggles) with the downpipe only? These motors sound like a mean diesel truck when paired with a turbo. I remember that was the most common comment I got.

 

Apologies, I have not been following your posts very closely. I thought I eyed an internal wastegate. I don't recommend running the motor much past 6krpm. Once you get it tuned, you will notice these motors tend to lose torque quite dramatically towards 6-7k rpm, unless you are progressively adding boost to balance traction and maintain a flat curve. That gets back to the 2-valve and head flow restrictions. These motors are torque MONSTERS when paired w/ a turbo (for their era). My biggest issue was breaking the tires loose at 3500rpm (even in 2nd gear) when the boost came-on realllly strong. You are probably familiar with some of the cooling issues running high HP numbers, and unfortunately those are internal design limitations that are difficult to improve upon. The popular head mod which adds cooling lines to the 5th and 6th cylinder heads (directly) does help but not as much as you need to maintain cylinder temps at high boost and high rpm.

 

All this to say, i recommend spending most of your time at the peak torque curve vs. peak HP. In my experience, I had a lot of time keeping cylinder temps reasonable when boosting near redline. You will still have tons of fun and your rings will last longer (ask me how I know). For me, this was shifting right around 5500-6000.

 

Good luck buddy, and she sounds great!  

 

No, but I heard my friends like that haha. Definitely sounds a bit like a diesel, but I'm not a fan. My current cam is already enough at idle. I love the sound much more once it smooths out during accel.

 

I have the head cooling mod now which is my coolant feed for the turbo. Was suggested by a builder in Vancouver who works on a lot of these. So far 0 temp issues, but I'm not on boost a lot, and honestly as a street car I just don't see myself driving it in a way that would get me there. This is already overkill for my use.

You're totally right about the torque drop off. Considering just how hard it pulls when I'm barely getting to into the 5000s, I don't see myself using that supposed 7200 rpm redline either. Maybe eventually that'll become a tuning thing to limit boost at lower rpms, but that'll have to wait until I sort my current boost creep. 

Moving out of the country soon, so that's unlikely haha. just trying to enjoy it as much as I can this summer before it's stored at my brother's.

 

[AydinZ71]

Sweet man! Yeah sounds good!

 

Oh the temp creep issues I was talking about was at the actual cylinder itself. As in, the block/head at (5 and 6 in particular) get much hotter than what the registered temp is at your gauge (which is reading at the thermo housing). You see this when you tear the engine apart and see heat related wear in the cylinders/rings themselves but never ran hot at the gauge. That’s what I found on my turbo motor. 
 

As you said, not really a big deal for occasional street boosting. If you back-off after one or two pulls, things will normalize and you will be OK. The heat-sink effect is really where you see the most cylinder wear, and that comes from spending time at high boost and high rpm’s without giving the cooling system a chance to “take away” the heat accumulated in the iron. Keeping at or below 6k rpm helps, and so does an oil cooler! 

[Zetsaz]

Well the first failures of longer drives have shown up. Had two MAJOR oil leaks (sprays more like) from the back of the valve cover and from the oil pump.

 

I thought the gaskets failed, but it seems less likely now that I've torn into it. The spacers I used for the new coil pack mounts aren't as sturdy as I thought and can't apply enough pressure on the valve cover without distorting. Got a new gasket anyway, but I'm replacing them with metal spacers this afternoon.

 

The oil pump might be more serious, but after pulling it it looks like the stainless bolts I had from Z Car Depot at some point are too short. They only have 3 or 4 threads into the aluminum on the timing cover and cross threaded. Got a new gasket for that as well, but also chased the threads and buying longer bolts today to get better thread engagement and a better seal.

 

Hopefully that solves my problems, but there's oil EVERYWHERE on the passenger side from my drive home. All over the passenger suspension, on the wheel, and splattered onto the passenger fender and door from spinning around on the wheel while warm and thinned out.

 

Lots of cleaning to do.

[Zetsaz]

New bolts and metal spacers purchased. Pics of the oil everywhere included, plus the old bolts (with the black on the end sort of indicating how many threads were actually grabbing) vs new bolts for the pump.

 

 

[rossman]

What a mess!  I'm glad it turned out simple and non-catastrophic for you.  I've purchased a screw set my steering column cover from Zcar Depot.  Turned out one of the screws was the wrong diameter and it ended up cracking the formally perfect, 50 year old plastic.  I was not a happy camper.

 

Was the oil actually spraying out the valve cover or were you just referring the the oil pump leak?

[Zetsaz]

16 minutes ago, rossman said:

What a mess!  I'm glad it turned out simple and non-catastrophic for you.  I've purchased a screw set my steering column cover from Zcar Depot.  Turned out one of the screws was the wrong diameter and it ended up cracking the formally perfect, 50 year old plastic.  I was not a happy camper.

 

Was the oil actually spraying out the valve cover or were you just referring the the oil pump leak?

 

Was leaking kind of substantially from the cover but I'm pretty sure the only spray was out the pump. The higher rpms from highway cruising plus the fan being right next to it helped it splatter all over. Combine that with being thinner from running at operating temps and it made it easy to spread all over.

 

Got it running a couple hours ago and sprayed engine degreaser all over the passenger side of the bay and the suspension components that got oiled up. Drove out to a car wash and hosed everything down thoroughly.  I think it might be cleaner and drier than it was when I first got the new setup running haha.

 

No signs of leaking so far after a double check and quick highway drive so I think the problem is solved. Will know for sure on a longer drive tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Zetsaz]

21 minutes ago, rossman said:

What a mess!  I'm glad it turned out simple and non-catastrophic for you.  I've purchased a screw set my steering column cover from Zcar Depot.  Turned out one of the screws was the wrong diameter and it ended up cracking the formally perfect, 50 year old plastic.  I was not a happy camper.

 

I think other than their OEM bits they just have generic hardware store stuff in whatever the closest size is. Your diameter issue isore severe, but I've noticed the closest stuff i find is usually fractionally shorter than the OEM hardware which is why I had that issue.

 

Protunerz might be running into the same issue on some of their kits. Still waiting on the rest of my hardware after they told me some of the hardware they got for the thermostat kits was too short. I know for a fact my bolts holding in the lower thermostat right now are shorter than stock and and really hoping to replace those soon with the new stainless bits

[Dat73z]

After more than a few dozen trips to the hardware store over the years I finally bit the bullet and started doing large orders from belmetric. I think I probably saved $$$ overall compared to Home Depot/lowes/Ace/Fastenal even after shipping. They usually have the correct lengths and thread pitches I need although the head/nut sizes are usually different 👍

[1969honda]

Check McMaster.com, you can usually find whatever pitch,  length and head style you want for a decent price.  I don't buy metric hardware from anywhere else due to the issues you have stated.