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Richard Oben

LS1 T56 240Z springs, what to run? No Coil overs.

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Posted (edited)

Have Tokico springs and struts on a very stock the 240Z and Eibach and KYB on the LS1 powered 240Z.  The Tokico are a bit too rough (for me), the eibach are a LOT too soft.  Both cars have the same big sway bars front and rear.  Looking for ideas on better spring options without going to coil overs.  Did the Eibach and KYB when in a bit of hurry to get the project done a couple of years ago.  

 

The 240Z guild uses one Vogtland on any modified cars, any thoughts?  A buddy has BC coil overs on one car (Subaru) and Vogtland on his 280Z he finds the V better for the street on his 280Z.  I know not the same car 240-280.  Just looking for opinions.  I thought about just taking the Tokico and Eibach springs and swapping them, which is probably what I should do since I have both.  But the LS is a pure street car for me and would like to keep it that way, without being to harsh a ride.

 

Thanks for reading and replying.  Richard.   

Edited by Richard Oben

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Hey Richard, 

I know you are 100% opposed to coilovers but I must say, When I switched from Tokico to CX Racing Coilovers I didnt find to much difference in how "Harsh" the ride was and found the opposite actually... Just a note for you to contemplate. 

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Posted (edited)

They are all "coil overs".

 

When people say "coliover" they typically really mean "adjustable height" coilovers.  That is all anybody gets with "coilovers".  Various manufacturers of "coilovers" offer different srpings and shocks.  But they are all "coil overs".

 

If you can't find the right combination of shock and spring then one of the various "coilover" options might be worthwhile.  But, once a person understands that it's just a spring (AKA coil) over a strut/shock, many possibilities open up.

 

Without a description of the spring and shock, coilover doesn't actually have any useful information, as a word.  Except that ride height is probably adjustable.  And preload, which is a factor in ride quality.

Edited by NewZed

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Quit fooling around and just go to coilovers.  You will be glad you did.  Back in the old days we had to make them ourselves.  Now you can buy from TTT.  I went straight to 250s and liked them, but I now run 450s and like them even better. 

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NewZed, I know that by definition we have a coil over strut set up.  Just trying to avoid the new set of dollars I have to throw at it.  I have been looking at the silver mine motors set up. but did not really want to cut and weld on 50 year old parts.  

 

RebekasZ I know what you are saying.  Again no real want to cut and weld, But I agree it would be silly to put another set of springs I do not like on the car. Changing springs for Autocross vs street or at least adjusting the dampers does have some appeal.

 

Keep the answers coming.    

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I used TTTs weld on setup and it was fairly easy to do. The strut tube is decently easy to weld to. Perches weren't that hard to cut off with an angle grinder. Getting the tubes off the car to work on is probably the worst of it.

 

I can't really comment on what is comfortable though, I went with a fairly stiff setup.

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If you really don't want to cut and section the strut tubes, it's still entirely possible to build your own adjustable coilovers using universal parts.  (I think Mike Kelly used this kind of setup for a long time on his car.)  This is especially true if you have no plans to significantly lower your car.

 

2.5" coilover sleeves, 2.5" springs of your preferred spring rate (7 - 8" uncompressed length should work well), and top hats.  Make sure your front struts still incorporate some kind of thrust or needle bearing capability.  Some guys have even done this while retaining the stock rubber strut top isolators for ride comfort and noise abatement.  Stick with quality-made springs and avoid the generic eBay specials.  

 

The advantages are multi-fold....adjustability, limitless choice of spring rates, and much easier to work on.

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I think stock spring rates were in the 100-120 lb/in range (when new).  Tokico advertised rates were 140/160 (240Z) and 185/200 (280Z).  Don't know Eibach and Vogtland advertised rates, but you may have already dug that up.  (I'd be surprised if they were significantly different from Tokicos.)

 

So go from there, based on your existing experience with the Tokicos and Eibachs.  Keep in mind that a longer spring will be more compliant than a shorter spring of the same rate.  You can go longer than the lengths I suggested, but may need a spring compressor if you go much longer than 8 or 9" uncompressed length.  Not a big deal if you don't mess with it often; but kind of a pain if you pull the suspension frequently.  I like Swift, HyperCo, and QA1 for springs....but that's purely a personal preference.  Everyone has their own favorites.

 

Proper shock valving (both compression and extension) has a much bigger impact on ride comfort and suspension compliance than pure spring rate.  Lots of good choices to choose from in shocks.

 

Here's a nice write-up which retained the stock rubber strut isolators.  They used a Cosmo coilover kit; but you could use whatever kit you like, or fashion your own from individual piece-parts:  

 

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Question for everyone else: in that thread, they mention the strut tops being threaded and having to drill them out. My original and OEM replacement strut insulators are D-shaped. What am I missing? 

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No, the holes in the stock strut top isolator are not threaded; but they do need to be enlarged to accommodate Bilstein shocks.  They should be fine as-is for KYBs, Tokicos, and other shocks with stock-sized threaded shaft at the top.  The author also pointed out that he could have tapped the enlarged hole to match the threading on the Bilstein (as @thehelix112 had), but decided it was not necessary for his installation.  

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4 hours ago, jhm said:

No, the holes in the stock strut top isolator are not threaded; but they do need to be enlarged to accommodate Bilstein shocks.  They should be fine as-is for KYBs, Tokicos, and other shocks with stock-sized threaded shaft at the top.  The author also pointed out that he could have tapped the enlarged hole to match the threading on the Bilstein (as @thehelix112 had), but decided it was not necessary for his installation.  

But they're round? I've seen several people mention enlarging the hole, but never a word about having to change the shape. 

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No, the d-shape is to keep the shock shaft from spinning whilst tightening the top locking nut. 

 

I don't know about Koni Yellows, but the stock hole should be compatible with the shaft on KYB, Tokicos, Sachs, and other popular strut inserts made for the S30.  Bilsteins are an obvious exception, due to the large shaft diameter and top locking nut.

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Thanks. I'm aware why the D-shape is there, I just didn't realize some aftermarket shocks came with a matching shaft. My setup from T3 with Koni Yellows has a round shaft. T3 probably assumes everyone will use their camber plates rather than stock mounts. I guess I'll just get to work with the file and round out the mounts. 

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15 hours ago, calZ said:

Thanks. I'm aware why the D-shape is there, I just didn't realize some aftermarket shocks came with a matching shaft. My setup from T3 with Koni Yellows has a round shaft. T3 probably assumes everyone will use their camber plates rather than stock mounts. I guess I'll just get to work with the file and round out the mounts. 

 

You could grind a flat on the shaft also.  

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Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2020 at 8:04 AM, Richard Oben said:

Have Tokico springs and struts on a very stock the 240Z and Eibach and KYB on the LS1 powered 240Z.  The Tokico are a bit too rough (for me), the eibach are a LOT too soft.  Both cars have the same big sway bars front and rear.  Looking for ideas on better spring options without going to coil overs.  Did the Eibach and KYB when in a bit of hurry to get the project done a couple of years ago.  

 

The 240Z guild uses one Vogtland on any modified cars, any thoughts?  A buddy has BC coil overs on one car (Subaru) and Vogtland on his 280Z he finds the V better for the street on his 280Z.  I know not the same car 240-280.  Just looking for opinions.  I thought about just taking the Tokico and Eibach springs and swapping them, which is probably what I should do since I have both.  But the LS is a pure street car for me and would like to keep it that way, without being to harsh a ride.

 

Thanks for reading and replying.  Richard.   

My .02
 

I run Tokico Illuminas & Tokico springs on a 240Z body, sounds to me that swapping the suspension between your 2 cars could  help. The Tokico setting of 1 or 2 (soft) is fine for me on the street. just don't put urethane everywhere.  Lasts longer, rides like... a dog. 

 

i added ST suspension beefy swaybars and it made little difference- well the rear didn’t have a swaybar so maybe it helped a little bit.  I don’t track the car, but do some spirited canyon driving in CA.
 

Finally- If you changed wheels from stock to 15”+ you may need to add billet ‘bump steer” spacers to get the geometry right.  They cost <$100 and make a huge difference. Best suspension item I added, and except for rubber track rod bushings was the cheapest. Alignment guy told me it ‘squared up’ better after adding bump steer spacers. 


Another Richard

Edited by Firepower
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