Guest DaneL24 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 I was contemplating the idea of installing an S2000 Motor into a 240Z...and think it would have very good performance. A 2800 lb S2000 can run 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, it would be extremely quick in a 2300 lb 240Z modified with more gear reduction than an S2000. The motor has 150 ft/lbs of torque and 240 HP...thats more torque than a stock L24 out of a 2.0 liter I4...and with the 9000 RPM redline you could use a lot of gear reduction and still have the car fairly drivable and get good gas mileage. With that gear reduction you could easily accelerate like you have over 200 ft/lbs or more from the motor. Now heres what I have been thinking of for the mecanical part of the swap: -Honda S2000 motor (F20C) and 6 speed manual tranny. -Custom motor and tranny mounts (obviously) -Spliced S2000/240Z Driveshaft -Front 4.375 R180 Diff from a Nissan Truck -Fabricated exhaust system The reason you would want the front diff from a Nissan truck (early 80's 4x4s) is that the R180 will bolt right up to the Z and that the F20C spins in the opposite direction as most rearwheel drive car motors...so you will want to reverse the rotation at the rear diff with reverse cut gears for a front diff. Does that make sense? Also, the S2000 has 4.11 gears stock, and the 4.375 gears will allow for more reduction. A smaller tire diameter would help too. Of course there is fuel management and ignition to think about, not to mention activating the VTEC selenoid for the secondary cam lobes. I actually think it would be cool to build a custom intake manifold with your selection of carbs for this motor, and figure out another way to power the ignition and the VTEC selenoid. I just think carbs would be cool an a VTEC motor...not that I'm saying it would actually be better or anything. I saw a really old Honda motor with 4 sidedraft carbs...one per cylinder. Something like that would be cool. Of course, this would be an expensive swap, and realistically not something I'm going to be doing myself anytime soon...just something I was thinking about. So what do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 i dont know about the diff part, but i think the s2000 would make a great track setup, lightweight high reving. its really on and off though, with no feeling of torque until 7500 rpm. ive been to several track events and the s2000s ive seen dont do very well at them though, in a 240z it would be a different story maybe. wish you could carb it easily, it would be a bad ass setup thats for sure. for a car thats rated at 14.5 in the 1/4 mile they are pretty dang slow to me, ive now got two s2000 drag kills under my belt with the L28et, and i dont think i even have 240hp yet, i do know i have more than 200ft lbs though-and its all on from 2200-6000rpm and my car weights about 27-2800lbs, its fun. it would be a very unique swap, and if its what you want to do, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaneL24 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Yeah...I've done a little research on the S2000, and the overall gear reduction between the tranny and diff is about the same as a Z. So I'm figuring a Z with lighter weight, the same gear reduction, and more torque in the low-mid range would beat it through first gear. The advantage of the S2000 though is that with its 9000 RPM redline it can hold 1st gear all the way up to about 40 MPH...I bet 2nd goes up to 70 MPH. Thats why I think it needs more gear reduction though, to take advantage of the high redline...and it would sure solve the problem of a lack of torque on the low end. If you could reduce the gearing so it shifts out of 1st at about 30mph and out of second between 50-60 MPH like a Z, and then reduce the weight by 500 lbs it should haul (ie. put one in a 240Z). I do remember also reading that the engine spins "the wrong way", not sure exactly which way it rotates, just saying that if it does rotate the opposite direction as an L motor, using reverse cut gears in the diff would solve the problem...thats why I say the 4.375 R180 Front Diff from a Nissan truck. Otherwise just use a standard R200 or R180. With the availability of extremely low Nissan Diff ratios, I think a reduction in tire diameter would be needed to get some of that acceleration. Anything taller than a 4.11 diff just wouldn't cut it. I know there are some Nissan truck diffs close to 5:1 ratios, those would be perfect if they could be made to work. Fabricating the manifolds for the carbs shouldn't be that hard...I was thinking something like using 4 sidedraft carbs and just having an individual intake runner for each cylinder...or dual carbs. The one problem I see is that with the extremely wide operating band, it would be hard to get the engine to purr at idle but still scream at 9000 RPM with carbs...you might need multiple secondaries or something like that. The idea of using SUs came to mind...I'm sure they would need custom needles though. With standard unmodified SUs an F20C motor would run pig rich at idle and lean on the high end. Without the ECU for the EFI, an MSD ignition would probably work well, and you just need a way to electrically activate the VTEC selenoid at the right RPM, otherwise theres no point in having the motor. The thing that would make this swap possible is that it already is a rear wheel drive set-up...you could probably put a VQ35DE into a 240Z just as easily...and you know it would haul. Like I said though, not something I'll be doing anytime soon, just an idea I think is cool and would be fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 The reason you would want the front diff from a Nissan truck (early 80's 4x4s) is that the R180 will bolt right up to the Z and that the F20C spins in the opposite direction as most rearwheel drive car motors...so you will want to reverse the rotation at the rear diff with reverse cut gears for a front diff. Does that make sense? Nope. Sorry to burst your bubble. The front diffs from early 80's nissan 4x4's are often used in track and street Z's. It is the same design as the rear R-180's, just used in the front. What you need to find out is what direction the Honda S-2000 diff turns. it might be that the S-2000 tranny works such to make the driveshaft turn in a conventional way. If not you will have to work some S-2000 diff swap. There was an article in Grassroot Motorsport not long ago about a guy who was running a S-2000 motor in a spitfire or something like that. I might be able to find it... -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 What if he took a diff and flipped it upside down so that it could spin the other way? Just an idea. It might seep oil from the vent, but maybe that could be taken care of, possibly. Where there is a will (and $$$) there is a way! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 if you flip it, it's still going to spin the wrong way. if you mean switching the gear directions internally, that might work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Answer for lack of torque: Supercharger I'm a big fan of turbos, but I don't think you could find one that would supply torque down low (lack of exhaust flow) and then take advantage of all the flow up top (too much exhaust flow.) A good supercharger would give you that extra little bit on the bottom and some good numbers up top. Oh, those guys running under six seconds from 0-60 are dropping the clutch at some unheard of RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 What if he took a diff and flipped it upside down so that it could spin the other way? Just an idea. It might seep oil from the vent' date=' but maybe that could be taken care of, possibly. Where there is a will (and $$$) there is a way! Davy[/quote'] It'd be like running in reverse all the time. The crownwheel and pinion would last about 500 miles!! Been there, done that!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I just read the artical in GRM about the spitfire with the s2000 engine. The artical said the engine spins in a conventional direction. Unlike most honda engines. This guy used a GT6 rear end with lsd. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest benjlv Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 the guy with the spitfire also had to run a cat because the computer would throw codes without it. I suppose a o2 sim could be used though. Also you wont be able to run carbs on this motor. The VTEC requires the computer....But i suppose it could be jimmy rigged, but there is no point since youll never get the carbs to run as well. Carbs are a outdated technology and putting them on one of the most advanced motors is pointless/insane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaneL24 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Yeah, basically for the race car look (four individual TBs or carbs) and for the sake of having a custom set-up...and yes its an advanced engine...but the only real problem with carbs is that the motor has such a wide operating range (idle to 9000 RPM)...hence my idea for multiple staged secondaries (or a custom air piston and jet needle set-up). You could make it run well with a custom carb set-up if it was engineered right. As far as the VTEC goes, you just need a way to electrically activate the VTEC selenoid at a certain RPM...not necessarily the ECU. All the VTEC selenoid does is open and allow oil flow to lock up the rockers so the secondary cam lobes can kick in...its really not that complicated. As far as this "Honda equals no torque" myth goes...like I already said, the F20C motor has more ft/lbs of torque than an L24...just in a higher RPM range. And you don't need forced induction (although it definitely would help). With a 9000 RPM redline, you can put really low gears in it and still have it driveable. If an S2000 and a 240Z redlined at the same MPH in a given gear (9000 RPM for S2000 vs. 7000 RPM for 240Z)...the S2000 would have a lot more gear reduction and would accelerate much faster...both off the line and at the high end. Force to the wheels is a factor of both torque at the crank and multiplication after gear reduction...not just pure engine torque. Thats why modern Hondas with 4 cylinder engines can accelerate just as fast as our Z's with the 6 cylinder engines stock (not to mention the advantage of VTEC). Thats the point I'm trying to get across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dero Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 VTEK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 DaneL24 - you are absolutely right about the torque and Honda engines. The Integra Type R runs a diff ratio of something like a 4.38 stock, and JDM higher than that, like a 4.55. Even higher ones are available. I was at the strip last Friday and ran into a supercharged S2000 (Vortech, with A/L IC). He was putting down 300hp to the wheels, and kept breaking into the 13s (he had no helmet or roll bar on his convertible). An impressive little car, and that supercharger setup was very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 To somewhat redirect the discussion... how much does the S2000 engine weigh, with its various accessories, emissions system, etc.? I’m asking the question somewhat rhetorically, because it seems to me that a modern engine strong enough to survive 9000 rpm would need a beefy block, and those can’t be particularly light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Judging from Honda's bike engines it doesn't need to be that beefy to survive 9000rpm. Worth further research however... Anyone know if it uses balance shafts? Usually it seems that is reserved for the larger 4 cylinders mind you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Nah it doesn't, balance shafts are used primarily to smooth out the operation of big cube 4 bangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I'd still like to do a 4G63/4G64 hybrid in a 240Z...You'd have alot more rpm than a L24 but about the same torque output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 What about that post not too many days ago about the Vetec I-4. Looked reasonably priced and very light with respectable power. http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiD-ViD Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I dont know about supercharging an s2000. I think you pick one and stick with it...low end tq or high end hp. a nice big turbo would be nice but then again I would settle for some nice screaming indivitual throttle bodies, a header and sporty exhaust. I also dont think you could get a supercharger to flow right from down low all the way to 9k. just my 2c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Holy Crap. Ed Bergenholtz went Mazda!!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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