cobraz240z Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 thank you ill send them to you first thing tomorrow morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmon Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I'll try to post the ones I have.....lets see if it works. Here are the Calipers peeking through these vintage (haha) wheels Here are the fronts, you can make fun of the suspension for about another week. Here are the rears............. I can't believe that actually worked. Now show me some Brembos on a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 That Wilwood setup looks the goods, maybe better than my custom 295mm rotor Z32 aluminium caliper setup. Which is not perfect, the aluminium Z32 calipers are known to flex, but when you brake at 200kph the car does slow down quite dramatically Lets face it, any half decent caliper working on big rotors on a S30 is going to stop in a hurry. As usual, how much do you want to spend in the high performance world of diminishing returns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 260DET, You make good points... Here's my opinion on why the MML kit is probably a better choice than the AZC setup... The MML kit employes all factory Ford calipers and pads, which means rebuilds or replacements are CHEAP compared to Wilwoods. The Caliper is the same caliper used by BAER for their brake setups. The Caliper is strong, light and doesn't seem to flex. Plus you do retain the E-brake with the rear caliper. The drawbacks to the MML setup are rotor size and weight, which require a 17 inch wheel I believe (Ross can Chime in) and the 13 inch rotor weight is substantial compared to a 10 3/4 inch rotor on 1st gen 300ZXs. It should be though, because it is substantially better. If you want good performance and moderate looks, the Wilwoods will do the job, but if you want the ultimate in performance and looks, Check out any of the 13 inch rotor deals... Nothing beats the impressive look of a a 13inch rotor and bright red caliper filling in between the spokes on a CCW wheel. I like both kits, but if you're shooting for 400WHP, you want as much brake as you can get under the car. If you TRULY plan to drive the car to even 8/10ths, you want the most out of your brake system. Jamie T. and a couple of others have similar kits for large brakes... Check all your options and do your research. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 260DET' date=' You make good points... Here's my opinion on why the MML kit is probably a better choice than the AZC setup... The MML kit employes all factory Ford calipers and pads, which means rebuilds or replacements are CHEAP compared to Wilwoods. The Caliper is the same caliper used by BAER for their brake setups. The Caliper is strong, light and doesn't seem to flex. Plus you do retain the E-brake with the rear caliper. The drawbacks to the MML setup are rotor size and weight, which require a 17 inch wheel I believe (Ross can Chime in) and the 13 inch rotor weight is substantial compared to a 10 3/4 inch rotor on 1st gen 300ZXs. It should be though, because it is substantially better. If you want good performance and moderate looks, the Wilwoods will do the job, but if you want the ultimate in performance and looks, Check out any of the 13 inch rotor deals... Nothing beats the impressive look of a a 13inch rotor and bright red caliper filling in between the spokes on a CCW wheel. I like both kits, but if you're shooting for 400WHP, you want as much brake as you can get under the car. If you TRULY plan to drive the car to even 8/10ths, you want the most out of your brake system. Jamie T. and a couple of others have similar kits for large brakes... Check all your options and do your research. Mike[/quote'] I am planning on using the MM 13" brakes on the front of my car. According to Ross, they will fit under some 16" wheels. I have a new set of 16" Panasports and Ross says they will fit. You just need to let him know when you order that you will be using 16" wheels. Now I need to decide if I really need 13" brakes in the rear too or if Ross's 240SX rear brake kit will be enough. See you soon, Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 How do you tell if your calipers are "flexing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmon Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I don't know how to tell if a caliper is flexing....thats a very good question. I've never felt mine flex. Maybe only answered in a lab under stress testing. The MML kit employes all factory Ford calipers and pads, which means rebuilds or replacements are CHEAP compared to Wilwoods. If the parts are so cheap and I agree they must be because they are mass produced for Ford, then why are the kits so expensive? There must be a fairly substantial mark-up there. Which brings us back to Value......the start of this thread had to do with "piecing" together a wilwood kit. But as we found out during the thread, the AZ kit was less expensive to buy than to assemble separately. We should commission the thread starter to piece together a PBR kit and see if there are savings there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 That brings up a good point... One of the reason's this thread was started. My Ford Cobra Calipers were $220 Shipped and included bolts and pads, along with the mounting craddles. I had Jamie Taylor Make me a set of his 240Z aluminum hubs for $425, including the bearings and races. I also had him make my adapters for the calipers to bolt onto the factory strut "ear" caliper mounts. That was $50 for the brackets. The rotors run about $200 for the pair, and are a bit heavier than a two piece setup, about 3-4# each, which is unsprung weight and is significant. So all in all the front setup, including the new upgraded aluminum hubs cost me $875. This is more expensive than going with a 12 inch Wilwood kit, but also provides more lever effect for stopping. The rotor is probably as thick as the 12 inch wilwood setups, and is directionally vented. For more endurance, I could have spent about $700 on the Wilwood GT rotor kit we put on Jim McNemar's car. That brake rotor is supposedly good for a full season of road racing, according to the Mustang boys that are running the same setup. If cheap is the solution, and you're never gonna track the car, and the car will remain sub-300 HP, then maybe the 300ZX rotor/ 4Runner caliper or this Wilwood alternate "kit" is the way to go... Just depends on your intended use... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aguyandaredhead Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Maybe I missed it somewhere in the above posts, but how come nobody has mentioned the fact that it is not advisable to run a caliper that has no dust seals on a daily driven street car. If you follow Wilwoods recomendation I believe they say that for a track car this is fine because it will get rebuilt several times a season. On a street car I bet they can go untouched for a few years depending on driving styles. Now I am no expert by any means so the flamming will go "For Not" but I would rather run a caliper designed for street use ie: Baer, PBR, Brembo(ouch), ect. It might be worth listing in this thread which of the ones talked about here use a dust boot on the caliper piston. As this will extend the life of the piston and thhe bore of the caliper for quite some time. Oh and by the way I did not always have this opinion, I had 13" rotors and 4 piston JFZ calipers (large road race) on my last 72s30. They were not sealed either. I will not do it again. Just my 2cents. Jeff:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 No, Jeff, It is a good point you bring up, and one that has been discused before. Most of the guys using Wilwoods on the street haven't had issues with failures, but you're right about track only calipers. They do require more maintenance due to this issue. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buZy Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Arizona ZCar also has an upgrade for the fronts which is another 750. 13 rotors and 6 piston wilwood calipers. With the 12.2 / 4 piston rears that would be a great package too. Again no true parking brake but the price to performance factor looks great. After spending so much time sweat and money building a car... I would not trust a parking brake anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Re caliper flex, it can be felt as a sort of soft, springy feeling under hard high speed braking. But of course other brake problems can also show up as a similar feeling. Really bad calipers can be seen to flex visually, won't mention a particular pretty looking brand model that fails that test Take a wheel off, work the brake hard with the engine running and look. Similarly a dial gauge can be used on the caliper body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 http://www.outlawbrakes.com/brakes.html How about the stage "2" setup for the s30? $650 gets you a 11.5" rotor .81" width with vents and outlaw 2800 calipers with pads and all the necessary hardware to bolt it up. I don't think it has dust boots though. Can anyone comment on the quality of outlaw calipers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmon Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Those look like the right materials, Aluminum housing, SS pistons, etc. Their website says they're for NASCAR, but they don't have any references on their site, which kinda looks like they need some graphic design assistance. But of course they aren't red, so they won't look as good through the CCW wheels, as one of the respondents wrote....which I have to say when you're spending serious money on a car does count for something. Does anybody who is watching this thread run ITS in SCCA. I'd be interested to hear what brake solutions are allowed and revered for the 240Z in that class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 its isnt allowed many mods.really just stock brakes with upgraded friction material.but limited horsepower helps save the brakes.this makes for alot of maintenance work.like bleeding brakes between heats if you overuse the brakes.i put an instructor off at turn 6 at laguna becuase he was bummed that he couldnt pass my street z and he ran out of brakes.my car runs toyota truck calipers.84 300zx rotors all around.front rotors are drilled .rear has 2 piston willwood calipers on dp racing brackets.pads are changed in front for track days.track pads are porterfield r4-street just napa pads.rear are porterfield r4s-i leave those in.there is a bias valve by the shifter.i run ford fluid.you really dont need fancy stuff unless you are running lots of horsepower and have to scrub lots of speed.when my car is running again with new motor ,efi,turbo,ic i will be hitting some track days.i like smoking trailered in race cars.sometimes at thunderhill i turn the a/c on on the cool down laps-it gets hot with a helmet on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 MIke Gibson (goes by the name of SCCA on this board) used to sell Outlaw brake setups for Zcars. I owned one and sold it to a member here. JOhn Coffey has also used Outlaw calipers on his Zcar for racing, but not in SCCA ITS. Nothing wrong with those calipers, except for the lack of dust boots. As for colors, well you can disassemble any caliper and have it powder coated or anodized. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 MIke Gibson (goes by the name of SCCA on this board) used to sell Outlaw brake setups for Zcars. I owned one and sold it to a member here. JOhn Coffey has also used Outlaw calipers on his Zcar for racing' date=' but not in SCCA ITS. Nothing wrong with those calipers, except for the lack of dust boots. As for colors, well you can disassemble any caliper and have it powder coated or anodized. Mike[/quote'] Do you have any clue as to fade resistance and performance compared tot he 12.2" wilwood AZC kit? Weight? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 The components are largely the same. The Outlaw setup is a 12.2 setup as well, uses Coleman Racing components, as does the AZC setup (Pretty sure all that stuff is sourced from the same manufacturer for the rotors/ hats) and the calipers are very similar. The pads are the pads. Everyone likes a certain brand of pad, but Wilwood and Hawk both make excellent pads in a wide range of uses. Weight wise there is little to no difference. I've had all these kits in my hands, so I feel reasonably confident in these remarks. The money I could have saved if I'd just kept ONE kit and been done... They are all GREAT kits and the only reason I'm using the JamieT. hub/ Cobra rotor/ PBR caliper is servicability and "Overhub" hat design. Sawpping them out doesn't require unbolting a hub, which is old technology in this day and age. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 He's talking about the smaller 11.5 x .81 Outlaw setup. I believe that is the one John used on the ROD. The 12.2 x 1.2 is a different heavier setup. The reason that I ended up with the larger one is that it was cheaper to buy at the time than the smaller setup. The Wilwood and Outlaw calipers do seem pretty similar, FWIW. There are lots of different sources for the brake parts. I think http://www.behrents.com or http://www.pitstopusa.com are the cheapest. Just make sure you get the right bolt pattern for whatever hat you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Do you have any clue as to fade resistance and performance compared tot he 12.2" wilwood AZC kit? Weight? Thanks. Pads have an ideal operating temp. You can get different compound pads to suit the temperature you will be using the brakes at most. Wilwood makes several pads that fit a Superlight caliper. A full race pad will not have good cold stopping power on the street when cold, just as a lower temp street type pad would be prone to fade on a road course with a high hp car. Re caliper flex, it can be felt as a sort of soft, springy feeling under hard high speed braking. But of course other brake problems can also show up as a similar feeling. No way you can feel the caliper flex. I can go push on any brake pedal and feel a springy feeling, it's the way brakes work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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