Mustang in Japan...not a V-8 under the hood

[Corzette]

Just wanna say I know about not having support in Japan for V8s. They have a grip on the Rice market here because its Japan. Just like everything else they try to control from the open market. When you can get $3000 for a crank, why in the world would they open the doors to a V8 crank that could be bought for $200 (SCAT 350 STOCKER). Its all about money I think. I remember I needed to line hone a rear main cap that Grumpy so helpfully sent me and the guy handed me a metal file and a majic marker!!! WTF? Its rediculous. Also if they opened the markets to Turboed V8s V10s etc, it would just take away money from the monopoly. The strange thing is that alot of people over here get so brain washed that they actually think 4 bangers will out run an 8 (all being equal) Its just silly. Another thing that is funny is that in Okinawa people always talk about how fast they can do the quarter mile.....guess what??? There is no quarter mile in Okinawa... we all know how accurate or inaccurate the GTech is. Anyway just some thoughts from my experiences.

 

Hey in the end...to each his own, if your suzuki 3 cylinder can run a 9 on a 700 shot of nitro then guess what???? Its still a 9 sec pass.....haha.

 

Terry

[J Taylor]

I think it's pretty cool personally. I have had the idea in my head for a while now about getting some older domestic (chevy II, etc......) and dropping in an import motor of some sort (RB, 2jz). I think it would be cool as hell......probably get alot of crap from the domestic guys about it.

 

JT

[cheftrd]

Maybe you have no support because you're at Camp Fuji? I build American V8's and trannys left and right for people. ATI superchargers, stroker kits......... Most of the shops around you cater to the road race customer due to Fuji Int Speedway being right down the street.

 

The American V8 and classic car market in Japan is thriving. I see more 60's era Impalas and low riders in Okinawa than SoCal.

 

We have a population of around 1.5 million. Okinawa has the highest percentage of high performance cars on the street, per capita, than anywhere else in Japan. Why would HKS, ORC, Omega Oil, and others come down here to sponsor and run race events if there was no market? There are over 50 race shops here, that I know of. I'm sure there are many more back-woods operations.

 

On the G-Tec Pro Competition: Both Road & Track and Car & Driver, among others, have tested it and shown it to be accurate to less than one tenth in the quarter. If my Vette shows 9.5 seconds on the ticker, I'm sure it's running 9's. Henza is over one mile long, dead straight and dead flat. Compare this to what? Sendai? Half of that track is downhill. You can't give the world accurate quarter times from there, either. When 99% of the racing in Japan is done on the street, I can assure you that nobody but the F&F, little kid crowd cares what your car does in the quarter. The common phrase you hear among the real players is "Who cares what your car did at Sendai; bring it to Henza" (Mizugama, Aja, Irijima, and on and on....).

 

As far as machine shops go, you're right that they suck. Most are like mom and pop operations. If you want quality, you must send your stuff to Tomei, Toda, etc. You're going to pay; it doesn't matter if it's an American V8 or an RB26. That's why you buy a balanced rotating assy from Egale etc. Most of the RB's and SR's that I build are standard bore, so that Joe-machinist doesn't get the chance to ruin it.

 

The RB26 we've got going into an S15 almost went into an old six-banger Mustang. In the end, we decided that the body was just too far gone and would cost too much time to refurbish.

[Ed260Z]

I think it's pretty cool personally. I have had the idea in my head for a while now about getting some older domestic (chevy II' date=' etc......) and dropping in an import motor of some sort (RB, 2jz). I think it would be cool as hell......probably get alot of crap from the domestic guys about it.

 

JT[/quote']

 

I think the idea is cool too. Just not on a irreplaceable car.

[Sean73]

I think that the Difference is #'s. There are more Z's out there' date=' than there are Stangs from that Era. Remeber that the Early Mustang had a major change in almost every model year. While the S30 was, more or less, the same from 70-78.

I would say that the 1970 Z is car that shouldn't be tampered with.

 

I have an Early 260Z which in it of it self is a limited run car, but I would not call it a classic (In the sense that it should be restored to factory new condition).[/quote']

 

The classic mustang was produced in gluttonous quantities compared to the first-gen Z. About 1.2 million mustangs the first two years. That's like 4X as many as ALL Z's from 1970-78.

[Bartman]

I would think that more HybridZers would appreciate the engineering and uniqueness of this swap. I enjoy cars and everything that goes with it...and I would enjoy seeing and hearing more about this particular vehicle. The Mustang looks pretty beat up in the first picture of this post, but the other pictures look like the car is pretty clean. Maybe the first picture is an after shot that shows what happened to it during the movie.

 

Whether it's an American engine in a Foreign car or vice versa, it's still interesting and if you understand the builders needs and desires...maybe it makes sense. Maybe if you think it's WRONG your not to far from thinking putting a V8 (or v10, or v12, or inline 4, rotary, etc.) in a 240Z is WRONG too.

 

Just because it's not what you would do, doesn't make it wrong.

 

Viva le Difference

[Ed260Z]

The classic mustang was produced in gluttonous quantities compared to the first-gen Z. About 1.2 million mustangs the first two years. That's like 4X as many as ALL Z's from 1970-78.

 

True, but there are less today in restorable condition.

[Tim240z]

I think it's great.....purism kills imagination and inventiveness. I think that is a fantastic conversion...bet it hauls @$$ and sounds great....yeah, I'm a V8 guy, but seriously, as mentioned above....What a double standard!!

[Vintage-TechZ]

The classic mustang was produced in gluttonous quantities compared to the first-gen Z. About 1.2 million mustangs the first two years. That's like 4X as many as ALL Z's from 1970-78.

 

Thanks for those figure's. Well put and true. I've watched this Mustang thread pop up on EVERY board I've been on over the last few weeks.....Syclone,BMW, Skyline,Jeep,Composites,even over sea's and its just amazing to me the amount of double standards exposed here given the subject.

To act as if its sacreligious to do THIS swap when ALL others are OK just slays me into unsympethetic laughter to all of the sudo-purists who blow this spit.LOl.

Clean air is RARE.....an honest Human is RARE.....a good dollar exchange rate is RARE......people agreeing completely is RARE....

 

Nothing is RARE about sheet metal hunks except an ancient one owner car !Or a "one off" or less than 20 made sort of deal.

So take a deep breathe and remember...this is HYBRID-Z....not PURIST NAZI !lol.

Relax,unwind and finish a car.

Vinny 8)

[rudypoochris]

I think they did this swap simply to piss off domestic guys and make ricers happy. I know that is heavy speaking, but the general worshiper of the skyline is a kid who thinks that r34's are god and that mustangs are the worst car ever made. By putting in this engine I think they are making a pretty bold statement. That isn't even what doesn't sit well with me, what doesn't sit well with me is that the mutang is a strong brutiful car. By putting in the rb26 I think the car becomes more nimble and highstrung, no doubt it is still beautiful but it isn't brutiful. In a Z when you drop in a V8 I think the car doesn't loose so much of it's appeal. An s30 came with a very torquey engine, and was ment to compete with the muscle cars of the time, i think, except it can go around corners too. By putting in a v8, handling can be improved and in some cases weight can even be lossed. The torquey character it had before is amplified and the car becomes distinctly stronger. If the same is done in reverse to a muscle car like the mustang it just doesn't seem to work out as well, the stang becomes sort of emasculated in a sense, losing it's low end torque and becoming a little more high pitched. No doubt the rb26 is a hellof alot better then the stock block that was in there. I just feel that stangs are supposed to look heavy have a big motor and go straight. Putting in this nimble turbo motor kind of detracts from that for me. In the s30 I don't think that happens. Thats all really.

[Corzette]

Maybe you have no support because you're at Camp Fuji? I build American V8's and trannys left and right for people. ATI superchargers' date=' stroker kits......... Most of the shops around you cater to the road race customer due to Fuji Int Speedway being right down the street.

 

The American V8 and classic car market in Japan is thriving. I see more 60's era Impalas and low riders in Okinawa than SoCal.

 

We have a population of around 1.5 million. Okinawa has the highest percentage of high performance cars on the street, per capita, than anywhere else in Japan. Why would HKS, ORC, Omega Oil, and others come down here to sponsor and run race events if there was no market? There are over 50 race shops here, that I know of. I'm sure there are many more back-woods operations.

 

On the G-Tec Pro Competition: Both Road & Track and Car & Driver, among others, have tested it and shown it to be accurate to less than one tenth in the quarter. If my Vette shows 9.5 seconds on the ticker, I'm sure it's running 9's. Henza is over one mile long, dead straight and dead flat. Compare this to what? Sendai? Half of that track is downhill. You can't give the world accurate quarter times from there, either. When 99% of the racing in Japan is done on the street, I can assure you that nobody but the F&F, little kid crowd cares what your car does in the quarter. The common phrase you hear among the real players is "Who cares what your car did at Sendai; bring it to Henza" (Mizugama, Aja, Irijima, and on and on....).

 

As far as machine shops go, you're right that they suck. Most are like mom and pop operations. If you want quality, you must send your stuff to Tomei, Toda, etc. You're going to pay; it doesn't matter if it's an American V8 or an RB26. That's why you buy a balanced rotating assy from Egale etc. Most of the RB's and SR's that I build are standard bore, so that Joe-machinist doesn't get the chance to ruin it.

 

The RB26 we've got going into an S15 almost went into an old six-banger Mustang. In the end, we decided that the body was just too far gone and would cost too much time to refurbish.[/quote']

 

Yeah I know all about it...I spent 16 years in Okinawa since the late 70s....still not what I would like to see. They need to turn Chataan into a race strip and start making some money out there...

[Corzette]

Thanks for those figure's. Well put and true. I've watched this Mustang thread pop up on EVERY board I've been on over the last few weeks.....Syclone' date='BMW, Skyline,Jeep,Composites,even over sea's and its just amazing to me the amount of double standards exposed here given the subject.

To act as if its sacreligious to do THIS swap when ALL others are OK just slays me into unsympethetic laughter to all of the sudo-purists who blow this spit.LOl.

Clean air is RARE.....an honest Human is RARE.....a good dollar exchange rate is RARE......people agreeing completely is RARE....

 

Nothing is RARE about sheet metal hunks except an ancient one owner car !Or a "one off" or less than 20 made sort of deal.

So take a deep breathe and remember...this is HYBRID-Z....not PURIST NAZI !lol.

Relax,unwind and finish a car.

Vinny 8)[/quote']

 

Ok what he said........

[Ed260Z]

To act as if its sacreligious to do THIS swap when ALL others are OK just slays me into unsympethetic laughter to all of the sudo-purists who blow this spit.LOl.

 

So take a deep breathe and remember...this is HYBRID-Z....not PURIST NAZI !lol.

Relax' date='unwind and finish a car.

Vinny [/quote']

 

If I thought I was a pusist I would never have wondered onto this site. May be it's because the Early Mustang was the first car I ever "fell in love with". I had a 64 1/2, 67 & 69. This is a straight line runner.(no turns please) They were OK on the road at best, handled marginaly, but hitting the gas when the light turned green gave me a grin from ear to ear.

 

The Mustang, Camaro and Corvette are American Icons. I'm sure that there are more than a few Japanese that think dropping an American V8 into a Z is Sacrilegious.

 

I suppose the ripping the heart out of a 1967 427 Corvette Conv, and dropping in the RB26DETT would be OK for some. NOT ME

 

Don't get me wrong I think thet the RB26DETT is an ASSOME motor, Hell I want to put one in my Z this Spring.

[AKWIKZ]

This is bound to get me into trouble here, but I've never been any good at keeping my mouth shut. For anyone, especially anyone on this site, to have a problem with this proves a complete double standard along with an unfair and unfounded slant against Japanese machinery. So many have referred to putting an American V8 into a Z as an "improvement". There are always plenty of psudo rationales for this thrown about, most of which I sincerely question. But all of a sudden the idea of putting a Japanese motor, not just any Japanese motor either, into a second string American car, that's right I said SECOND STRING, becomes blasphemy. Am I the only one missing the punchline to this joke? If anyone here that has preached the benefits of a V8 swap would apply their logic to this situation they would find no leg to stand on. What I think they will find is complete emotion controlling their arguments. And don't go telling me about the inflated HP per dollar available in a V8, I can't tell you how tired I am of that argument. On a somewhat related note, I remember just a little while back someone discussing with me the idea of getting a Hakosuka Skyline and putting an American V8 into it. Now, you want to talk about blasphemy. This, in my humble opinion, begs for the Car Gods to strike someone down. But I don't recall anyone here having a problem with that idea. Mutilate a classic Skyline, hey great idea, swap a Japanes motor into a Mustang and the sky is falling. Now I'll step down from my soapbox.Brian

[speeder]

Am I the only one missing the punchline to this joke?

 

No.

 

I am truly amazed and amused at the double standard exhibited here.

 

And those who think they know my bias will reassess when they see my next engine for the "Chop".

[Dan Juday]

What I think they will find is complete emotion controlling their arguments. Brian

 

Yup, I agree totally.

 

But you can't deny that emotion and fast cars go together. Nothing makes me more emotional than great clouds of Goodyear wafting through the drivers door window!

 

I'm not a Ford guy or a Mustang guy. It's just where I grew up. A Mustang's got to have a Ford V8 in it. I don't even like Ford six cylinders in Mustangs. Corvettes didn't become Corvettes untill Chevy put V8's in them.

 

It's my memories of being a kid, seeing and hearing those great muscle cars and then wrenching on my own hot rod. I just can't deny those memories, those emotions. No matter how much better a Japanese turbo charged six may be it will never stir my juices like an American V8. It's not where I grew up.

 

If I grew up in Tokyo I'm sure I would feel the same way about Z cars.

 

So we can be bigots when it comes to cars. So what, it's just a car. But people are people wherever they grow up. I respect a guy who is pissed at me for 'butchering' a nice 240Z with a V8. Hey, that's where he grew up.

[rudypoochris]

I'm not a Ford guy or a Mustang guy. It's just where I grew up. A Mustang's got to have a Ford V8 in it. I don't even like Ford six cylinders in Mustangs. Corvettes didn't become Corvettes untill Chevy put V8's in them.

 

Same on this one. The 6's in the stangs suck, and the corvette beofre the v8 sucked. The rb26 is a terrific engine, but if you wanna get picky, it is turbo and it has a high cg, and it certaintly is not light. The ford 302 is probably lighter, has a more better cg, keeps the weight back, and is N/A so plenty of response. Same goes for the 351 cept, it probably isn't lighter. I feel that the ultimate goal in a swap is to make the car better. Going from 8->6 cylinders isn't necessarily bad, but it certaintly isn't better. The handling is not better b/c the 6 is farther forward, has a higher cg, and is probably heavier then the 302. The response is dimished b/c the 6 is turbo and the 8 was N/A. The powerband is personal preference, but I always like relatively low in a heavy car like the stang. The only thing that is better imho would be the power (if comparing to a 5.0) or the potential to make power (if comparing to a 351, and even so, a 351 will put out alot of power, the rb probably bests it though). So while I think alot of people are looking at this with a "double standard" kind of viewpoint, I think my reasons are pretty much justified, opinions?

[HakosukaJD]

C'mon now! I was only kidding! I'm sticking with my L28 and triple Mic's:)

 

On a somewhat related note, I remember just a little while back someone discussing with me the idea of getting a Hakosuka Skyline and putting an American V8 into it. Now, you want to talk about blasphemy. This, in my humble opinion, begs for the Car Gods to strike someone down. But I don't recall anyone here having a problem with that idea. Mutilate a classic Skyline, hey great idea, swap a Japanes motor into a Mustang and the sky is falling. Now I'll step down from my soapbox.Brian

[Gollum]

I'm on the younger side, and as such don't have the same attachment to V8 power. But I LOVE mustangs. I don't admit that much because for the most part most stang owners are idiots, and rightfully so, with how many are sold every year. Between me and by bro (bigger stang fan than me) we know production numbers, trim options, engine options, ect. for almost all mustangs (mustang lls aren't mustangs). We've both been accused of being able to smell mustangs coming becuase we'll say something like "nice 68 fback about 6 cars up" and there will be like 2 semis blocking the view, and after a couple of minutes someone will shout "I see it!" and we'll usually even be right on the motor it has in it.

 

I don't say all this to boast. I just say it to show how much I love the mustang. I honestly didn't know how my brother would react to this swap when I first saw it. But it turns out he's just like me, it's a great idea. Maybe not the perfect motor for the car, but absolutlly awsome for the fact that it's got as much if not more power potential than any ford production pushrod V8 and it's unique, wich means it's more than just a mustang, it's "someone mustang."

 

I always love to tell my brother about all these cool things people do to Z cars and he's always like "why do all that work when it's not even a Z at that point" and I'll simply reply "becuase this way someone ends up with a car better suited to them than any production car and it's a cheep foundation that's a good starting point" to wich he usually reconsiders and agrees.

 

Cars are about enjoying them. It doesn't bother me if someone admits "that mustang wouldn't be for me, and I couldn't enjoy it". That's fine. What I can't take is "oh my GAWD that shouldn't be done. He just ruined that car".

 

Would anyone here be mad if someone took a 280Z and made it look like a AE86 and put a 100hp NA 4 banger in it? I seriously doubt anyone would get hot headed about it.

 

Now, if this were a 67gt500 and someone put a rb26 in it... well, i would be pissed at first, but I might get over it. But those are truly rare, and works of art at that. If the AWD was transfered I might be able to get over it.

 

For me it comes down to this. Cars are ment to be driven. Museums are for things that don't work anymore.

[Guest JAMIE T]

I've been pretty much ignoring this thread. But, I will say something anyway. That mustang IS NOT RARE. A rust free 240Z is WAY MORE RARE. Anyone who has picked up a copy of "Hot Rod" or "Car Craft" knows you can buy a BRAND NEW '67 MUSTANG BODY! All STEEL! Can't say that for a 240Z. There is nothing wrong with the car in question here. No principles have been broken, no highly sought after car has been butchered, and no rare engine has been replaced with a "Ricer" engine. What you have is an American Icon powered by a Japanese Icon. What alot of us have are Japanese Icons powered by an American Icon (name you V8)! When ever I tell anyone I have a Datsun Zcar, they immediately ask, "You gonna put a 350 in it?" Hell, they don't even know what an RB26 is! I'll step down from my soap box now.