OlderThanMe Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 THIS TESTING IS NOT FOR 70MPH CRUISING ON THE HIGHWAYS!!! Why would we spend multiple thousands of dollars to pick up 1-4 mpg on a 30+ year old car?!?!?! The testing(IMO) should be for how to make a S30Z have best performance on a road racing track with a top speed around 150-160 (400hp). All that without extensive body mods (spoilers, belly pans, fender ducting, front end designs, add on vortex generators, etc... are what we should look at). I think once we go past the point of fixing the body we have to work with you might as well design a new body...then you would not have a Z any more... You would have your V8 powered Z car with a really nice areodynamic body on it with the crappy Z frame and suspension(struts, T/C rods, bump steer etc..), you might as well design a new car. My 2 cents... Maybe someone should start a thread about ideas of how to improve the S30Z's body without going to the extreme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 The car in the pic below has rear fender vents similar to what I mentioned earlier regarding Z-car wide body kits. The air exits upwardly at the rear. Except this one has the intake vents on the top rather than the side. The exiting air aids in applying more downforce to the wing. I wonder if the vents in the wide body rear fenders could be modified for a similar effect and if this could help minimize the size of the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Spillman Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 THIS TESTING IS NOT FOR 70MPH CRUISING ON THE HIGHWAYS!!!Why would we spend multiple thousands of dollars to pick up 1-4 mpg on a 30+ year old car?!?!?! ... I respectfully, partially disagree with above statement. With the information gained, We may be able to "fix" your street driven car to be safer...when driven in excess of normal speeds..Track days, extreme highway speeds. We all will gain benefit from the information.....Ah...to be as slick as a RX-7 on the track...Hmmmm.... And get better gas mileage..... Maybe a pipe dream ... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I don't think that the aero mods that benefit the racer and that benefit the average street driver are mutually exclusive. I think that we are going to find that some of the simplest mods will net the best overall gain. For example, closing up the front radiator opening and controlling where the air goes will reduce overall drag and reduce front end lift. The same goes for enclosing the inner wheel wells (not covering them). I hope that we will establish a baseline for a stock bodied car and then progressively make changes to see the results. Add headlight covers Add different air dams Add rear spoiler(s) Change ride height/angle I have faith that that we will all be happy with the results. By the way, I have been doing some work to my car in hopes of reducing its drag and improving its front end lift. Here are pictures that shows my progress (and my daughter). My next order of business is to close off the area above the bumper and modify my hood to vent the radiator air (very similar to Terry Oxendales hood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Agreed on all points:wink: We are all arguing our own interests (including Mr. Hines), but I'll lay odds that most of the contributors are street oriented, not SCCA. We need to quantify the effect of changes that may be broadly applied. Simpler is also better, if not always possible. And thanks for putting the hatch back in the schedule . <> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. G. Olphart Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 THIS TESTING IS NOT FOR 70MPH CRUISING ON THE HIGHWAYS!!!Why would we spend multiple thousands of dollars to pick up 1-4 mpg on a 30+ year old car?!?!?! Why would anyone spend multiple thousands of dollars on a 30 year old car, if not to make it suit the builder's purposes. Those purposes often do include highway usage. 74_5.0, I'm with you, and nice work! <> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I am not saying that what is being done here won't help on the highway... Just doing wind tunnel testing for MPG on a street car won't be cost efficient. Mike's idea is interesting... Here is a good read on reducing drag... http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~lelo/rvad/reports/rva2002_gr10_drag-reducing.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I thought the idea was to acquire data that's useful for as many members as is possible. I'll bet very few of us (percentage wise) race our cars at the track. Why would the "many" donate thousands for the benefit of the "few"? I've skimmed through the entire thread and found no indication that this testing is to be geared toward track cars. The interest is diffuse and varied. If the purpose and conducting of this test is for the many, then I'm in and will donate. If this morphs into a focused test for track racers, then I would waste my money as I don't think it will benefit me. ANYONE... if I'm mistaken, please set me right:smile: EDIT: Okay... I read a few of the newer posts and I'm convinced that the data will help no matter what type of driving the tests are geared for. Still... I think testing should be geared toward both highway and track driving. THIS TESTING IS NOT FOR 70MPH CRUISING ON THE HIGHWAYS!!!Why would we spend multiple thousands of dollars to pick up 1-4 mpg on a 30+ year old car?!?!?! The testing(IMO) should be for how to make a S30Z have best performance on a road racing track with a top speed around 150-160 (400hp). All that without extensive body mods (spoilers, belly pans, fender ducting, front end designs, add on vortex generators, etc... are what we should look at). I think once we go past the point of fixing the body we have to work with you might as well design a new body...then you would not have a Z any more... You would have your V8 powered Z car with a really nice areodynamic body on it with the crappy Z frame and suspension(struts, T/C rods, bump steer etc..), you might as well design a new car. My 2 cents... Maybe someone should start a thread about ideas of how to improve the S30Z's body without going to the extreme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Adam Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Mike, I agree with you. I do plan on donating, but I hope the baseline car represents what the majority of us have to start with. Don't get me wrong, I'm very curious about all the different aspects of aero-modifications but how many of us are going to drive a street S-30 with flushed windows, filled gaps, blocked radiators, 3' wings, puddied over drip rails...ect? I don't have to have a gaurantee that a certain unique combination of parts are tested before I donate but what BJ is describing seems very narrow to me for a starting point. Or am misunderstanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 BJ / MK... I think we need some clarification regarding what type of testing will be done... for what type of driving. Are these tests geared to highway, track, or a combination of both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 We need to start another thread in the Body kits/paint forum... I have one titled Aerodynamic Testing Candidates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 THIS TESTING IS NOT FOR 70MPH CRUISING ON THE HIGHWAYS!!!Why would we spend multiple thousands of dollars to pick up 1-4 mpg on a 30+ year old car?!?!?! The testing(IMO) should be for how to make a S30Z have best performance on a road racing track with a top speed around 150-160 (400hp). All that without extensive body mods (spoilers, belly pans, fender ducting, front end designs, add on vortex generators, etc... are what we should look at). I think once we go past the point of fixing the body we have to work with you might as well design a new body...then you would not have a Z any more... You would have your V8 powered Z car with a really nice areodynamic body on it with the crappy Z frame and suspension(struts, T/C rods, bump steer etc..), you might as well design a new car. My 2 cents... Maybe someone should start a thread about ideas of how to improve the S30Z's body without going to the extreme... Olderthanme, Please don't put things like this in my thread. These comments only polarize what we're trying to accomplish here. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 We are trying to satisfy a lot of different people's desires... We want to get data on the most common aero parts and mods for our cars... but we are finding that there are a lot of parts that may not work.. or may make things worse... There are also a lot of things that have not been tried... SOME of the mods we are testing may be a little over the top for the Z car community in general... but we are keeping a goal in mind... We want these things to be within the realm of the average fabricator... We dont want to significantly change the body shape of the S-30 cars... I didn't want to scare anyone off... but at first glance... the Aero experts don't think much of a lot of the parts available... and we need to address things like flushing the glass that a lot of you won't want to change... We are also running into some issues with the underpan and diffuser that may make the cars DANGEROUS to drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 A bit off what we are talking about right now but, I and I'm sure many others would like to get a list of everything that is being tested. From air dams to body mods. BTW is removing the side markers / bumpers being considered? Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 yes side markers will be tested on and off the car... About our list... We hope to have our testing parts together in the next few weeks... We may need some donors for certain parts... We would like them brought/shipped to one of our shops... We will take care of the parts... but things do get scratched and dinged in this kind of testing... That is one reason that Mikelly bought a G-nose for this test... Those are the most expensive parts available for our cars and he doesn't mind if we put a little hole or scratch here and there... We would like any potential parts donors to take care of shipping(or transport) both ways... We can arrange times and places to meet for parts drops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Thanks for the quick reply, I can't wait to get into the wind tunnel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 SCCA? Heck, I'm in the SCTA, and run a Land Speed Racing Z-Car. Most of what anybody will be testing here will be totally illegal for me in the stock production classes I run. But for other classes, any reduction in drag will help me---wether what anybody uncovers in the testing to be beneficial would be legal in my classes will remain to be determined. I may "get nothing" out of the testing in that regard. But the curiosity over the myriad of "AERO" and "STYLING" Kits out there intrigues me: I seriously doubt the "AERO" kits sold will provide anything useful in the end. And that curiosity fuels my interest in the project. There is a LOT of that crap out there on the Flats---stuff people put on an S30 because it said "AERO PACKAGE" and went land speed racing. having seen how fast our car went, compared to many others with V8's (and much more horsepower) with these "aero parts" on them just has my curiosity piqued at really how bad these parts really are.... I have my thoughts along that line, and this testing will ultimately prove beyond a doubt if they really are "AERO" or just "STYLING" add-ons. What BJ is saying about the small BRE spoiler meshes really well with what we have seen first hand on the lake, and once and for all to have numbers put up there for everyone to see will at least give meat to silence ingorant theorists fed a steady diet of marketing pablum on what is functional and what doesn't work worth a sh**! To do it just to do it is reason enough... To know is better than not knowing. That sums it up for me! "Curiosity Killed the Cat, Satisfaction Brought Him Back!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 bj or mike, i have an spare rear spoiler [same as on my car-except fiberglass]. mounts with 2 bolts from the underside of the hatch. i'd be happy to take care of $ round trip if u would like it for the testing. check my gallery if you're unsure of which spoiler. it's brand new and still hasn't been trimmed after coming out of the 'mold'. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Another small paypal sent as promised!!!! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Money sent! Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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