BillZ260 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Very nice! This information seems VERY much worth the donation and I'm sure it will start to shape new and old projects alike for the performance oriented crowd. Great stuff!! Has there been any discussion on how the technical stuff is going to be posted? I'm sure all this information is going to take time to analyze and produce into an article. Just wondering what that will look like? I'm hoping the thread will be in the form where the authors post and we read. Keeping information requests and other meaningful questions and comments in another thread? Thanks again guys, this is unprecedented stuff here. Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Excellent work! I can't wait for the pictures. I've been spending all morning looking on the web for a a place to purchase sheet aluminum to make the airdam to rad support "tray". Are we going to get a who's who from the first picture of attendees? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 We have a lot of info to comb through. I just wanted to give you guys some of the impressions we had and trends that we found in our testing. Keep in mind that these were first impressions we gleaned from the raw data. When we have time to crunch the numbers we may find other surprising results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 The Gnose was a big dissapointment(for those who like the looks). No discernable benefit for all that $$$ weight hung off the far front end. Of course we hadn't figured out how effective sealing the radiator to the inlet was when we blew it. We might have made some improvements but it was pretty well sealed as installed. Yeah, was this one of the 'good' replicas with the undertray that sealed to the radiator core? i have seen some where I have had to make a tray over 10" wide to even come close to what the Nissan Made G-Noses did... And was that with or without headlight covers? I saw something from Fedex Tracking coming my way from Charlotte, arriving on the 3rd---did you guys send me a package? Interesting results, especially about the Type 3. Good job! Thanks! OH, and this datum came out JUST IN TIME! The car is going up to El Mirage for the season opener this weekend, and the radiator sealing results will come in handy... I will be discussing changing the undertray from our Non-OEM G-Nose to my OEM unit from Japan with the larger tray. We already knew blocking the radiator inlet increased the top speed quite a bit, now it is confirmed empirically. GREAT JOB! And again: THANKS A MILLION GUYS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 If I remember correctly the G-nose was well installed and had good close fitting to the radiator core. JT1 will have to take a pic for me though. I was asses and elbows the entire day. I don't have a pic of the inside of the G-nose in my camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Tony, the g nose we used came on an ""unfinished project"" car I bought, unknown origin. It doesn't come all the way back to the radiator support, I guess the gap is 6" or so. It had no headlight covers and no air dam. Surprisingly the gnose didn't reduce the drag numbers much, but it did reduce front lift. The type 3 air dam was much better with the underside sealed, and the g nose would have probably benefited also. It was a heck of a busy day. I thought it went very well, we got pretty much something for just about everybody included. One thing very evident is why big race teams spend so much time testing. Most of our stuff was just one item, but when you get into combinations, the list gets endless, and what pieces work well with others is a big surprise sometimes. One thing the tunnel operator kept emphasizing was that we must work on the car as a package. For instance the whale tail made some big downforce #'s, but increased front lift and drag. (((((EDIT: The whale tail drag numbers are under review, because I am a dumbass.))))) Sticking one end of the car down without doing something equal to the other end won't help the total package go any faster. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Did you happen to test a supra style wing? If not, what do you think it would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 One trend we found was that roofline modifications were HIGHLY effective. It takes only fractions of an inch to make BIG changes in numbers. The Supra style spoiler was on the list as well as another type of rear-upper lip. We simply didn't have time to test them. We did see noticable improvements from the smallest vortex generators. I would assume that the Supra style wing could be highly effective. It may turn out that Mike-KZ's supra spoiler is much bigger than it needs to be and may induce more drag than is worthwhile. The angles and size of the rear roof mods are HIGHLY sensitive and would require specific testing with multiple pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat240zg Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 BJ: When you're referring to the vortex generators, are you thinking something similar to what is found on the Mitsu EVO FQ---? It'd be interesting to see some examples. Bryan Dat240zg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 The VGs were little dorsal fins about one inch tall and 2 inches long. little tee-tiny things that made instant, noticable improvements in drag AND improved the effectiveness of the rear lip spoilers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Great job guys!!!!! Did you try out the headlight covers? Do you need any help crunching the data? I am good at that. I am a mechanical engineer, and one of my prime responsibilities is making test data comprehensible. I would love to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 We used headlight covers. In fact we used them on most of the combinations we tested. I recall they provided a noticable improvement. We will have to sort out the data to get the numbers. It seems that everything we tried showed noticable changes. We will have to do some number crunching to get numbers that represent real world results. Keep in mind that the BEST combination of parts we tried only approached the kind of efficiency and downforce that modern grass-roots race cars achieve. The tunnel operator told us at the end of the day that we had done very well to get our antique car to a point that it was approaching "raceable" efficiency and downforce. He made it clear that modern cars can still outperform our S-30 Z cars and they can take it a lot further. The Z cars have definitely tweaked his interest. We are setting up a meeting with the Aerodyn guys to discuss further modifications for our SECOND session. We might just figure out how to bring the S-30s back into competition with modern cars again. That would really piss off the SCCA who would yet again have to shift the Zs into a tougher class OR add a rule outlawing aero modifications of the types we employ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Thanks again for all the hard work. Wish I could have been there to help. Maybe the next run. I'm already thinking about ways to get some of the more beneficial aero mods past the tech inspectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 I can't wait to get the numbers worked out. My impression is : At 130MPH 1. The numbers on a poorly set up S-30 race car could be HUNDREDS of pounds of lift on BOTH ends and parachute loads of drag 2. A well set up S-30 could have hundreds of pounds of DOWNFORCE and reduce drag to near modern standards. This would have a huge impact on suspension design and tuning. These kinds of things have to be tested in the real world to ensure they do not cause instability in crosswinds and traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 One thing that I am interested in is the position of the center of pressure, and the effect the various modifications have on that position. For high speed stability, it is desirable to have the center of pressure behind the center of mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 We have had the whole balance idea drilled into us by the Aerodyn guys. That is really the problem. We would love to develop a package that works(serveral packages in fact). We had to satisfy the average Z owner in this testing series. We really did not have time to get into package development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat260 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Would this be an example of directing air only to the radiator? This photo was copy/pasted from Mark Rolston's website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 That tray will allow air to enter the nose, go up and around the sides of the tray and under the car. BTW that oil cooler might not get ANY airflow through it in that location. The air in a sealed inlet moves slowly and is turbulent. The oil cooler has no pressure differential in front or behind. The radiator IS HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE. If there is ANY path the air can take that bypasses the radiator it will dump under the car in HUGE quantities and ruin the airflow around the entire car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1 zonly Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I'm interested to know whether any rear diffusers were tested, and if so what their effects were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 how far were the VG's placed on the roof line from the top of the rear window seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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