bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 I have placed my oil cooler ~10" in front of the radiator just sticking up. This may be the reason it had little effect on oil temps. My aero airflow is closer to being correct with all the sealing I have done. but because the air in the front opening is slow moving, stalled, and turbulent it is just going around the oil cooler with very little flow through. I will have to mount the cooler in a highspeed airsteam somewhere else, or provide ducting specific to the oil cooler. We will need to test this theory but... The same applies to intercoolers mounted in front of the radiator. They will have to be sealed to the radiator(in series) or the slow moving air will just go around them. This may not be a problem for you guys without sealed grill openings. The high velocity air moving through the grill opening provides enough force to move it through the intercooler before it dumps under the car. I am willing to bet that as soon as the intercooler crowd starts sealing their front openings they will start to loose intercooler efficiency. In this case you are going to have to provide another flow path specific to the intercooler or in series with the radiator. A good idea for intercooler mounting is to USE the gap between the airdam and the radiator crossmember as another exit-duct specific to the intercooler. You can simply mount the intercooler on the front edge of the airdam but duct the back side of the intercooler to only allow air to go between the airdam and the front crossmember. Here is a pic of what could help the intercooler crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsun40146 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 So are we going to a list of everything tested and how much each thing or things helped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Guys, I'm gonna ask that we hold any further comment on the aerodynamic testing until we can get the data analisys done. There are comments that have been made to this point that are NOT accurate. We're all excited about what's been achieved but we have to make sure the statements we make are truly accurate. Give us some time, please. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 hehe.. srry Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 1, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 1, 2007 ........The best idea for intercooler mounting is to USE the gap between the airdam and the radiator crossmember as another exit-duct specific to the intercooler. You can simply mount the intercooler on the front edge of the airdam but duct the back side of the intercooler to only allow air to go between the airdam and the front crossmember. Here is a pic of what could help the intercooler crowd. Couldn’t you just lay the intercooler flat/horizontally, taking up the space between the lower core support and upper portion of the front air dam which would simplify the intercooler installation and ducting as pictured below? Let the intercooler be the restriction to air flow that is going under the car from the pocket just ahead of the radiator. Is there enough air flow “wanting†to go under the car in that region for this to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 2, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 2, 2007 Guys, I'm gonna ask that we hold any further comment on the aerodynamic testing until we can get the data analisys done. There are comments that have been made to this point that are NOT accurate. We're all excited about what's been achieved but we have to make sure the statements we make are truly accurate. Give us some time, please. Mike Ooops. I just read Mikes request. Sorry Mike, I was just wanting some clarification on a previously posted concept. If I’m out of line in that question, please accept my apology and I’ll refrain from further posts.. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I'm sure that would work, but I think it would be better to seal the intercooler to the radiator. Less air under the car is better. If you had hood vents and a rubber weatherstrip between the intercooler and the radiator it should improve the flow through the intercooler compared to having it just sitting there in front of the radiator, and it would still allow the air to escape out the top of the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Quote: Originally Posted by Daeron could this have been it? This was from 74_5.0L_Z's photo album here on hybridz.. but looking at it a second time, it s hard to see if it prevents that much air from traveling under the car.. obviously his setup forces it through the radiator, but the point is (seems to be?) to avoid it pushing below the car entirely, and leaving the airflow no choice but to go through the engine bay and then out the engine bay vents. I dunno if I am right nor not, but that was the car that *I* was thinking of regarding your comment, there, stony.. What you guys have not seen yet is that all the air that goes through the radiator comes out through the hood (I have shamelessly emulated BlueovalZ's hood). I have also closed in most of the gap between the top of the bumper feature and the bottom lip of the hood. I'll try and take some pictures tomorrow and start a separate thread. I don't want to pollute this one more than necessary. The radiator opening is sealed to the radiator with rubber gasket. The ledge between the bottom of the radiator and the front of the air dam is 18.5" wide by 21" deep. I'm hoping to take advantage of the high pressure area in front of the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Death69 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 someone probably already mentioned this but what about simply v mouting it, using sheet metal to block all the gaps, from airdam back. you could direct it anyway, its like how engines are done for drifting. ill find pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 2, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 2, 2007 ....If you were to put a piece of plywood in place of the radiator... and stood the car on it's tail... it should hold water flush to the grill opening. Sounds like that little rubber seal on the upper core support, thats gone from more S30's than not, needs to be re-installed (or maybe improved?). Did you have an opportunity to mess with, or look into its effectiveness? Thanks to all those that participated/contributed!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 This doesn't have anything to do with the testing, but sealing the core support to the hood isn't the best way to go. If you make an air box that goes all the way to the grill opening, then the WHOLE hood can exert it's pressure difference, from the front all the way to the back. If you seal it at the core support then you lose (guessing) 20% of the surface area of the hood. If you can get just a little bit of a pressure differential going, and spread it across the ENTIRE surface of the hood the downforce #'s will be a lot better than if you cut off the front 20% of the hood from that pressure differential. That was poorly worded, but hopefully the idea makes it through... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 2, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 2, 2007 Jon, I had to re-read that a couple times, but I think I follow. It assumes that you're able to create a 'negative' under the hood though correct? Are we anywhere close to being able to accomplish that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 I am definitely getting onto conjecture here. We can get some more specific info frmo the data we have. Further specific testing is REALLY required. We could not get into the level of detailed study we would like. We need a second date once we chew on the info we have for a little while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I drew this picture a year ago after I took an aerodynamics course. How did my guestimation come out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairjj Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 All, Here is an interesting read for background on vortex generators. (This is on an EVO but I still found it informative.) http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I had to re-read that a couple times, but I think I follow. It assumes that you're able to create a 'negative' under the hood though correct? Are we anywhere close to being able to accomplish that? I think we can. Limiting the amount of air getting into the engine compartment is a huge part of getting this done. The gaping maw in the front of a Z is way too big and allow a ton of air to get under the car, hence Z's with fiberglass hoods look like they're going to pop right off of the car. I think once the airflow going in HAS to pass through the radiator, then it's just about utilizing some hood vents to get the air out. By the way, I got that idea from a circle track site, but you see the same type of airbox almost universally throughout the racing world. I was looking at several catalogs today as I was packing them and they had the same basic radiator duct in them. Starts off with a small rectangular hole, then angles up to where it attaches to the core support. I can't remember what one it was... coleman, tc cline, pegasus, one of those. Only thing better than that in my opinion is a radiator/hood/airdam combo that never lets the air into the engine compartment like 74_5.0L_Z and blueovalz have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Thanks for the hard work and I will assume frazzled nerves. Getting all this done in one day is awesome. Sorry I missed out on all the fun. I have been planning to someday add a pan from the inner bottom lip on my Gnose to the front of the radiator and now your results tell me someday is now. Until that happens I'm sure that it will prey on my mind every time I drive at speed. Fabbing a belly pan with an AZ 6 qt oilpan will take more work. And I guess I shouldn't wait much longer to mount the headlight covers either. During our Z Club's annual spring inspection event, we all noticed the Subaru WRX, top rear window mini-spoiler and whale tail and wondered if the window mini would help an S30. The data that supports a 5-inch rear spoilr echos the C&D piece done in the late 70s with their fabbed " camaro" style spoiler. Look forward to seeing all the results and waiting for the call to donate for Round II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
het976 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What would happen if you vented the air under the hood into the cowl area by drilling some holes through the firewall into the box that hold the wiper motor? When I talked to my stepdad yesterday, he reminded me that is what he did to keep as much air from going under the car. He remembered drilling 4 - 3" holes. He also blocked off all the other holes in the core support so only the radiator passed air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 On the testing you did on the headlight covers, did you test them sealed well to the body, or leave a gap around the edge? Some of the ones I've seen come with a gasket, but it doesn't seal perfectly, since water collects on the headlight nacelle in front of the headlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 The headlights were taped on with gaffers tape. It was a smooth seal. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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