Mileage engine swap question.

[battlemac]

I plan to purchase a 240z. However, as most here would like to swap the engine. Now what I want to know is what engine will give me maximum mpg while still getting something like 250hp or more. I want something reasonably fast but with the price of gas the way it is I'd also like to have something that is efficient. I am looking to get something around 20mpg or better. 33mpg or so on the freeway is ideal and I know you can kind of get close to that out of the LS2(I saw in a magazine they got 28mpg out the 06 Corvette) and possible LS1. I don't care if the engine is 4 cylinder, 6 or 8 as long as it can get me 250hp or more while still getting good millage.

 

Is it possible to install the QR20 off a Sentra Spec V and then use the Frontier(which also use the same motor) MT tranny but change it for a sportier feel. Then add a small turbo to get the power desired.

 

BTW how much does the average 240z with an LSx motor swap weight? Also why can I not post in the project forum? Thank you.

[Vintage]

Stock LS1 will make that power and better than 20 mpg.

[frank280zx]

BMW 325 or 330 Diesel out of an e90! of the bat with room to improve

[battlemac]

Thank you for the replies. However, I have to make this clear if it isn't already. I live in California where Diesel emissions are pretty stict. Therefore, those diesel BMW motors are out of the question. If I could I would not mind having the 335d/535d motor they have in Europe. Any other options? The idea of diesel interest me as you can make it run on biofuel yet still make it have alot of performance. But I just want something that I can get 250hp out while still having good fuel.

 

BTW anyone thing the price of LS2 motors will go down once the LS3 comes out and the L76(or even the LS9). And what is the weight of a 240z and 260z with an LSx motor?

[auxilary]

well, since you're in california:

 

1. you're not required to smog your vehicle

2. diesel vehicles are smog exempt in california

[JMortensen]

Changed title to reflect what was in the thread.

[dr_hunt]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. HP takes fuel to make, period, end of story.

 

The ability to make big power and still have economy is mostly relegated to turbocharged engines IMO. With your minimum goal of 250HP that's a mostly stock NA 350 chevy, NA351w ford, turbo'd L6, turbo'd 4cyl. I'd think most all would be fairly close on mpg's.

 

Of course if you get more HP then that'd open up options like the LS1, hot NA ford or chevy, and relegate the L6 and L4 to well built motors equalling or exceeding the price of the v8's IMHO.

[Lewis Maudlin]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. HP takes fuel to make, period, end of story.

 

The ability to make big power and still have economy is mostly relegated to turbocharged engines IMO. With your minimum goal of 250HP that's a mostly stock NA 350 chevy, NA351w ford, turbo'd L6, turbo'd 4cyl. I'd think most all would be fairly close on mpg's.

 

Of course if you get more HP then that'd open up options like the LS1, hot NA ford or chevy, and relegate the L6 and L4 to well built motors equalling or exceeding the price of the v8's IMHO.

 

I beg to differ, you can have your cake and eat it too. My 350-400 rwhp SR20DET gets 30+ mpg. I love my setup. I get 30+mpg and for comparison, I got 12 mpg out of my 355 sbc setup. I have a heavy foot, so a normal driver would probably get closer to 40 mpg.

[Gollum]

I understand what doc is saying, and he's right. Power = fuel. You want a high HP and a broad torque curve it's gonna cost fuel. Honda's F20C is a good example, 120hp per liter, but gets terrible gas mileage for a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder.

 

And what doc means when he says "The ability to make big power and still have economy is mostly relegated to turbocharged engines" is that with turbo chargers you have a scenario where you only get boost (extra power) when there's load on the engine. This means that if you're staying under 50% throttle then you're power should stay fairly low, meaning less fuel used.

 

Now, lewis mentioned his 355sbc not getting great gas milage, but I bet that was a carburated motor, and he also didn't mention what heads he was running, or what compression ratio. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying there's a reason his motor didn't get good gas mileage, and I'm betting it's either from 13.0/1 or more lean burning while on the highway, combined with an inefficient head, or he's cruising at a high RPM from poor gearing ratios.

 

But like lewis said, he can get over 30mpg with his SR motor, and other guys are getting close enough to that as well to prove that it's not just him.

 

But, also garrett is getting like 28mpg with his 450+ wheel hp L28ET. That's something not many can boast. But he's spent a pretty penny on it all I'm sure, but he's also running a stock head/cam setup, so there's even more power there untapped.

[Tony D]

Yeah, got to chime in with Auxilliary and say once you convert your engine to diesel, you're one of the few REALLY exempt classes of vehicles out there!

 

Theearly cars are not required to bi-annually test, but they are required to comply with emissions. A diesel conversion is only one of two ways I know of to truly make your car 'exempt' from Emissions Compliance in California. The third would be to give your car to the state so they could use it as a municipal vehicle...cop cars, school busses, Water Department Vehicles, they are all 'exempt' from the smog check requirement due to 'undue financial burdens placed on municipalites with fleets of vehicles... What because they own a lot of vehicles they get a pass? I got 20+ cars, where do I get MY 'exemption' for all MY fleet vehicles???

 

I digress...

[battlemac]

So what is the best diesel motor that I can get in the California for a Z? Thank you.

 

What about the Toyota 1.8 motor from the Celica GTS/Matrix/Lotus Elise? My friend has a Matrix with the motor and gets like 26 out his auto tranny and right tune and parts maybe get 230hp and 30mpg with a manual tranny?

[nbesheer]

Have you driven your friends matrix. Eh if thats the same 1.8 thats in the rolla then bah. that thing doesn't even move out of it's own way. maybe with a stick but no way with auto. And isn't that FWD as opposed to RWD ?

[auxilary]

So what is the best diesel motor that I can get in the California for a Z? Thank you.

 

What about the Toyota 1.8 motor from the Celica GTS/Matrix/Lotus Elise? My friend has a Matrix with the motor and gets like 26 out his auto tranny and right tune and parts maybe get 230hp and 30mpg with a manual tranny?

 

I am really not buying the whole 230hp and 30mpg out of a matrix. slapping bolt-on parts like intake, exhaust, and such on a car does not automatically do +15, +10 hp.

 

The matrix also had a detuned celica gts engine, zz2 same as the corolla xrs, rated at 164hp. I've test driven the 6 speed corolla xrs and it was turning out 3000 rpm at 60mph in SIXTH gear. It was rated at 34mpg on the highway (and that's an aerodynamic car). According to autos.msn.com, the matrix xrs with 1.8 liter zz2 motor (164hp vvti) and 6 speed is rated at:

 

6-Speed Manual Overdrive 25 / 32 mpg

 

Which is kind of sad, because that's what my mazda 3s 2.3 liter is rated at. with a 5 speed.

 

Back to the topic, question: why bother with fuel efficiency for a 240z? I don't want to steer away from hybridz's guidelines, we do encourage all sorts of swaps and do not bash new ideas. Given that, I think ca18det or sr20det are you best options for fuel economy.

[Pete84]

Plus, the stock aero's on the S30 are really bad.

[battlemac]

See I would love to do SR20det swap, but the SR20DET is not legal in California, and only the FWD SR20 is legal. I think the same goes with the ca18det or so the 240SX guys are telling me.

 

What are some diesel(pref a turbo) engines I can use that is easy to get in California or near by states, but yet give me some decent power. I know realize with the weight of the car 200hp should still be sufficient enough as long as I have some nice tq numbers and considering this is a diesel that shouldn't be an issue. I understand there are truck motors, like a Cummins motor I can look into, but that seems odd to me a truck motor in a sports car. Plus I would think that the engine would weight a little to much to shift the balance of the car? I want to make this a track car that has power, but yet wont cost me much to fill and diesel looks like a nice choice(seeing as it cost 15cents less per gallon at the gas station I go to).

Will those MB motors of the E300(new or last gen) work?

[Tony D]

July 17th there was a Dovebid Auction wher a guy in Ceres had a whole slew of LD28 and LD28T's up for bid! I was travelling, and could not pre-submit bids so missed out. I wanted to bid on one LD28T, and a pair of the LD20's he had. The LD28's were apparently forklift or marine duty with REAR SUMPS so they would be a literal drop in for a Z-Car!

The LD20's were going to be for my son's 510 Wagon, and my 69 Coupe. Imagine a late ZX gearbox, with a 260Z R180 in a 69 510 Two-Door Coupe, cackling down the roadway...something like 2300rpms at 50mph, and in any case passing just about everybody by 3200rpms. I think that would have been one sweet setup. The LD20 was 54 HP, more than enough for a 510...and not much less than the Non-US models had with L13 and L14 petrol engines! Imagine the economy there!

[battlemac]

May i ask what this has to do with the topic at hand?

[Guest aznjoker604]

F20 motor from a S2000

2.0L N/A 240hp stock

plus its rwd application and a datsun 240z is probably lighter than an S2000

[myplasticegg]

Cummins makes a 4cyl turbo diesel motor that is fairly stout so i am told. They were placed in a lot of the ford vans. With an adapter, they bolt directly up to a ford 5spd trans.

 

(my plan if i ever get a CJ...)

[Gollum]

July 17th there was a Dovebid Auction wher a guy in Ceres had a whole slew of LD28 and LD28T's up for bid! I was travelling, and could not pre-submit bids so missed out. I wanted to bid on one LD28T, and a pair of the LD20's he had. The LD28's were apparently forklift or marine duty with REAR SUMPS so they would be a literal drop in for a Z-Car!

The LD20's were going to be for my son's 510 Wagon, and my 69 Coupe. Imagine a late ZX gearbox, with a 260Z R180 in a 69 510 Two-Door Coupe, cackling down the roadway...something like 2300rpms at 50mph, and in any case passing just about everybody by 3200rpms. I think that would have been one sweet setup. The LD20 was 54 HP, more than enough for a 510...and not much less than the Non-US models had with L13 and L14 petrol engines! Imagine the economy there!

 

May i ask what this has to do with the topic at hand?

 

He was responding to your question.

 

What are some diesel(pref a turbo) engines I can use that is easy to get in California or near by states, but yet give me some decent power.

 

 

But I'll have to look into it, but you might not be able to legalize a diesel swap in CA. It has to do with the fact you can't 'degrade' the emission system of the vehicle, meaning that if your car had an EGR then the new motor must have an EGR even if it's from a newer car. I'd thought it was kinda the same think about gasoline cars, that you can't convert them over to diesel. I might be wrong, I'll look it up again.