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HybridZ custom suspension design thread


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on a different note guys. do you think i should use the stock rack, lower control arm (maybe get the AZ one) and fab up an upper control arm and shock mount?

 

If you stay with struts that would be one option. You could move the top mount back towards the firewall to increase caster and not have the fender well interference. If you had power steering you could use large caster angles to overcome the large SIA of the stock strut. Ideally you need to run one-half the SIA as caster to cancel the camber loss from steering.

 

You could fab a new cross member to allower you to move the rack towards the axle centerline to help with ackerman. And while you were at it you could put in some vertical adjustment for the lower control arm to play with RC height. A lot of what you want to do is going to depend on your engine and what you have room to do.

 

Cary

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With your tube frame, you have a clean sheet. Now is when it would be prudent to define what you want and stick to it, else it becomes like my project and many others... never finished. Its far to easy to get caught up in exotic, when all you really want is reasonable improvement. If you don't define where to stop... you wont.

 

As Ron points out you have a lot of options. I gave some basics to get started earlier in this thread. Using Ron's pics and Terry's idea you get what similar to the front end of a Aussie touring car (at least under a Falcon). They are setup with rear steer and a upper arm that goes into pockets welded on top of the frame rail. The upper arm is splayed with equal angles, unlike Ron's arm. This keeps the forces more equal on it and allow room for the coilover assembly. In the Falcon the pics I have show that they use an extender on the shock to tie it into the strut tower that's no longer used. This is the direction I think I'll eventually take with my XP car.

 

 

Cary

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Its far to easy to get caught up in exotic, when all you really want is reasonable improvement. If you don't define where to stop... you wont.

 

 

SO true. I am actually in process of scaling back my project from the exotic extreme end back into something I can reasonably accomplish and learn from. It all starts with a good plan. Or as my old man would say "Remember the 7 p's. Proper prior planing prevents piss poor performance"

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It took me awhile to find this link http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/MGB-Front-Suspension-Upgrade.htm but I had read about this in a magazine and thought that something like this could be made for a Z car and bolted into the stock cross member location. By scratch building something like this someone could put the steering rack in front of or behind the cross member.

 

Dragonfly

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Been out of town for a few days so I'm a bit late to this thread. As I understand it from a quick read the main design parameters are:

 

1. Low Cost

 

Use existing off the shelf suspension components. The most likely source for these components are in the Circle Track industry or from an existing OEM source (Mustang, Honda, Camaro).

 

2. Easily Fabricated

 

Use the existing frame rails, crossmember, and steering position.

 

3. Improve Handling

 

The new design must improve the street handling of the car.

 

4. Better Packaging

 

The new design must make room for more wheel, tire, and brake options.

 

Are my basic design summaries above correct?

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It took me awhile to find this link http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/MGB-Front-Suspension-Upgrade.htm but I had read about this in a magazine and thought that something like this could be made for a Z car and bolted into the stock cross member location. By scratch building something like this someone could put the steering rack in front of or behind the cross member.

 

Dragonfly

 

Here is something similar but more complicated and also includes a subframe connector (for a g-body)

 

http://www.hdrcoupe.com/pages/Max-G-suspension.php

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The front end of the Z is not appropriate for the crossmember supported A-arm designs. How many of you have cut open your crossmembers. It is going to require a cage and specific reinforcement to the front end to support the crossmember mounted A-arms. The stock Z car has a highly reinforced TOP side to take the struts loads. The frame rail also spreads out these loads by keeping over a foot between the X-member and the TC buckets. If you guys try to bolt on one of those fancy crossmembers it will buckle your frame rails.

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Cary,

I have also seen Trans am cars here tat use bell cranks to get ackerman. I guess it also allows you to use a rear steer rack in a front steer position, If thats your thing. I guess the issiue with a trans am car is that the regs put the engine right where the rack should be.

 

Douglas

 

Just realized i replid to the end of the preivois page.

 

BJ I see your concerns however if you extended the sub frame to pick up the trailling arm points and then up into the strut mounts you might have something that works. Be a bit heavyer though.

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The front end of the Z is not appropriate for the crossmember supported A-arm designs. How many of you have cut open your crossmembers. It is going to require a cage and specific reinforcement to the front end to support the crossmember mounted A-arms. The stock Z car has a highly reinforced TOP side to take the struts loads. The frame rail also spreads out these loads by keeping over a foot between the X-member and the TC buckets. If you guys try to bolt on one of those fancy crossmembers it will buckle your frame rails.

 

Thats a good piece of information to know. I can tell you I would have certainly found out the hard way. I have been designing in my head for a while a crossmember mounted A-arm front suspension very much like the one shown in the article I posted above, looks like I may have to change it up a bit.

 

Dragonfly

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Been out of town for a few days so I'm a bit late to this thread. As I understand it from a quick read the main design parameters are:

 

1. Low Cost

 

Use existing off the shelf suspension components. The most likely source for these components are in the Circle Track industry or from an existing OEM source (Mustang, Honda, Camaro).

 

2. Easily Fabricated

 

Use the existing frame rails, crossmember, and steering position.

 

3. Improve Handling

 

The new design must improve the street handling of the car.

 

4. Better Packaging

 

The new design must make room for more wheel, tire, and brake options.

 

Are my basic design summaries above correct?

 

YES. seems like a perfect combination.

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since the suspension is designed to flow through the top of the frame around the shock towers, why not just build a heavy duty metal bracketry that goes all the way from a new K member up to the shock tower mount, then you can put an upper a arm on it up there, along with having a strenghtend shock tower and can put whatever shocks/springs you want on it.

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That only costs $12,000. I can buy a beater BMW Z-3 and have money left over to spend on the suspension. 4uck!

 

You keep refering to the Z3 - that is far from what I would call an ideal suspension to start from. I know first hand as I extensively tracked an M Coupe, (the coupe version of the Z3). I went through no less than 6 suspension itterations on it. The car is extremely capable, but the semi-trailing arm rear suspension just flat out isn't as capable as later generation designs, (either the M3's, or just about any multi link rear suspension). Sure, the front is slightly better than our Datsun's, but suffers from many of the same maladies being derived from a strut based design, (lack of camber gain, limited tire width inside the hub face). Yes, you can flat out haul in that setup if properly done, but the same can be said about the Z.

This is why I have the shell of a 94 RX-7 cut up and will eventually be grafted beneath my old 73, (no, not the "super datsun" as that is a '72). A-arm front suspension, multi link rear, very light, proven, lots of aftermarket support.

-Bob

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