The importance of proper grammer.

[ShaggyZ]

The original example was incorrect. To assist your Uncle Jack in his effort to dismount from his horse, one should say:

 

"To help your Uncle Jack off of his horse"

 

The salient point is not the comma but the extra preposition, "of".

The original example was not incorrect, but it did still sound bad. You don't need two prepositions in a row. Would it be wrong to say "Help me off the horse?"

 

It's like the overuse of "that." People use it to make statements clear even though it often results in grammatically incorrect sentences.

Edited December 27, 2010 by ShaggyZ

[Michael]

Shaggy (and everyone),

 

You’re quite right that commonly-accepted usage is not necessarily the grammatically correct usage. In colloquial speech we prefer brevity and simplicity over strict rigor. There are cases where two consecutive prepositions are required, but in common usage they tend to be omitted. Another common error is expunging the infinitive, “to beâ€. Example: “Do you need your rug vacuumed?â€, instead of “Do you need your rug to be vacuumed?†The former is incorrect.

 

I mention this not to be abrasively pedantic, but to point out that (1) some level of ambiguity is unavoidable in written communication, and (2) unflinching enforcement of the rules of English (such as in an internet forum, hint hint....) is ultimately futile and self-defeating.

[cygnusx1]

One of my favorite reference books is "Basic English Revisited". It makes a great toilet book, and is great for settling arguments over improper "grammer". Every US home should come with a copy.

 

http://www.goodreads...glish_Revisited

Edited December 31, 2010 by cygnusx1

[BRAAP]

I for one am not one to be critical of others grammar, my wife is always picking my writing apart, though I am critical of laziness. Not capitalizing or punctuating or using IM text shortcuts comes across as selfish and lazy.

We maintain this forum with regard, a little bit of dignity. We're not elite, far from it actually, but is it too much to ask that member communicate in a semi professional manner, not sound look like a bunch mall rats? Were not asking for college level grammar here, just capitalize the beginning of sentences, punctuate the end of those sentences, perform a basic proofread for gross spelling errors if your prone to poor spelling, and don't use IM text short cuts.

[Tony D]

New rule for the forum:"Please do not be offended if people offering replies to your poorly constructed post expend as much time on their reply as you did composing it."

[RTz]

...(2) unflinching enforcement of the rules of English (such as in an internet forum, hint hint....) is ultimately futile and self-defeating.

 

I agree with you, at least in absolute terms. To be clear, no staff member expects perfection... simply effort. Effort to be 'legible'. If you have to re-read a post 3 times and you're still lost, or you can't read it once without reaching for the Mylanta, there is a problem. Nine times out of ten it's directly related to laziness and lack of respect for the group. That's where we get cranky. If you can't muster the effort to write a readable sentence, how on earth do you expect to rummage the effort it takes to build a car? Tony is correct... garbage begets garbage.

[Gollum]

I agree with you, at least in absolute terms. To be clear, no staff member expects perfection... simply effort. Effort to be 'legible'. If you have to re-read a post 3 times and you're still lost, or you can't read it once without reaching for the Mylanta, there is a problem. Nine times out of ten it's directly related to laziness and lack of respect for the group. That's where we get cranky. If you can't muster the effort to write a readable sentence, how on earth do you expect to rummage the effort it takes to build a car? Tony is correct... garbage begets garbage.

 

Yea, you know it's a serious lack of effort when someone born and raised in the USA can't form a sentence better than most of the FOREIGN members we have on the boards... In all seriousness, how are there people who speak English as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th language, whom obviously don't have a firm grasp on our grammar, that can still be better understood than one born in this country?

[RTz]

 

 

In all seriousness, how are there people who speak English as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th language, whom obviously don't have a firm grasp on our grammar, that can still be better understood than one born in this country?

I would say that foreigners do, in many cases, understand our grammar better. One of my closer friends is not native English. He could rip my grammar to pieces if he wished. It's a social problem, not a geography problem.

[ShaggyZ]

I have better spanish grammar than most of the Mexicans around here in Austin. In spoken word, it would sure sound funny and almost be hard to understand. I only took 3yrs of Spanish in high school.

Edited January 6, 2011 by ShaggyZ

[bradyzq]

So, is your uncle trying to dismount from the horse, pleasure it, or kill it?

 

The most common example is the panda example.

 

Eats shoots and leaves.

 

or

 

Eats, shoots, and leaves.

Edited January 18, 2011 by bradyzq

[Dee]

This has got to be the funniest example here! haha

 

And what about commas?

That whole scenario has to do with the comma!

 

Help your Uncle Jack, off a horse.

vs.

Help your Uncle Jack off a horse.

 

 

Also,

 

 

edit: Dang you for beating me Mario!

[palladin]

Help your Uncle Jack, off a horse........a comma is not proper there.

 

But I must commend you for bringing this up. When you look at some of the idiotic posts we read from people who cannot communicate simply because they did not pay attention in school. "...When am I going to use this?..."

 

Well, I don't know, but are you going to limit yourself so early in your life. I taught math. I got so tired of getting 9th graders who did not know their multiplication tables. As an additional bonus...we allow these people to vote. You should have to pass a test.

[8DC]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

 

[nacitar]

Grammar.

This.

[Tony D]

It's the editorial page of Financial Times... Where editors APOLOGISE for improper use of proper English.

 

Their readers enforce a high standard, and the Editors must bow to the will of the readership.

[woldson]

Test... (btw,, if I did remember name and pass.. HOWDY ALL AGAIN!)

[woldson]

COOL! BTW,, Tony D? Braap? (ive forgotten a few) I missed this site,, and no,,, still have kids and work is limited on my z. :-[

[psdenno]

So, there you go. Capitalization errors, comma errors, IM text shortcuts, and incorrect spelling squeezed into the last two messages. Way to revitalize this resting thread!

Dennis

[hwvigo]

 Just watched this and it  seemed like it should here.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2014 by hwvigo

[psdenno]

Perfect!

Dennis