Daeron

I just re-read this entire thread from cover to cover, and I realized something. Olderthanme was the first person to mention the concept of "vortex generators" being used to even and straighten the flow, and it was flatly turned down (I will not mention by whom out of manners, I am not trying to talk down about that person.) In the end, the "honeycomb" effect that was noticed on the air intake at the Air Museum, and integrated and ultimately tweaked into nearly perfect airflow balance, seems to me to be just that: vortex generators, air straighteners, a comb. A honeycomb. When we think of VGs on the roof of a car they appear very different, because thats open atmospheric airflow, but for something like an intake tract simple plates suffice, instead of the "dolphin dorsal fin" shape of roofline aero VGs. So, I wanted to point out OTM as the one who initially came up with the REAL "silver bullet" in this design. It seems to me, at least, that the baffle plates are somewhat unique to this plenum design (at least in the Z world.) Once they had been tuned to lengths appropriate for each plate, the effect seen in the CFD diagrams was phenomenal. One question I had (and its probably not worth bringing up) is this: Once you weld the piece together around the perimeter, what is to stop the diffuser plates from moving relative to each other? Not only alignment-wise, but also through warping, any relative movement of these would starting buggering that beautiful laminar flow all to hell. Overall, my impressions of the entire thread are thus: In retrospect, the entire design seems so mind-blisteringly obvious! Jeff, I realize that you in NO way wish to make a profit off of this, but have you considered simply letting someone pop a mold off of it before you weld it together, and then selling the mold????? and finally, I just wish I had contributed more substance and less clog.

another thing to point out is that many, if not most OE fuel injection systems cut injector output entirely at zero throttle. Take your foot off the gas, and no fuel is being injected whatsoever. (below a certain RPM, usually around 4 grand) In other words, if you see a red light ahead that you know will be green soon enough, and let off the gas 1/4 mile away and AVOID hitting the brake, approaching the red light at 20 mph as it turns green, you are using the least possible amount of gas. It IS amazing how much more effort it takes to drive for efficiency than it does for power/performance. I deliver pizzas in a town on the outskirts of our baby metropolis down here, and and 3/4 of my delivery area is a large, essentially rural area. I have up to 12 miles one way that I can drive into that turf, and more than once I have forgotten to get gasoline as I was leaving the store. 20 miles later, when I am still 5-8 miles out, I realize that I am in dire straits, and once or twice I HAVE actually run out of gas.. but three or four times I've made this mistake and just cut the radio, and ignored everything else but driving with as steady and light a throttle foot as possible. Believe me, it feels almost like I am in a fighter plane over enemy territory with a fuel leak, because it is MORTIFYING to call work and have them send someone with a gallon in a can to me. IMHO, CRX HF is the BEST car to tinker with for ecomodding. The shape of the car is already SO close to ideal, that with minor work making a boat-tail on the back, and cleaning up a few body lines, you can easily get up over 50mpg as you already mentioned. Installing an engine and EMS specifically designed for economy? Well, Honda already did that, but its GOTTA be able to be improved upon.

ohhh, shutup. any time anyone quotes a piece of widely accepted lore that jeffp's car refutes, you chime in.... you dont HAVE to do it dripping with sarcasm... (just to make it abundantly clear, this entire post is tongue-in-cheek because I always forget he is running the stock piece there. For the record, I would KILL to see what simply swapping say, Monzter's ITB plenum for the stocker would do for numbers. Naturally the tune would likely need to be changed, but you get my point)

why has no one else thought about getting a 4x4 truck front axle and using two motors connected to 4.11 gears and 13 inch tires?????? add a small diesel generator and you have an AWD, electric Z with battery power and diesel generation a-la modern locomotives... i LIKE this idea!! I had no idea it could be done so simply in a Z. For some reason most of the other conversions I have seen seemed far more complex. I suspect I may have been exposed primarily to AC conversions. This would make a GREAT car to deliver pizza in

what about setting up the steering like it is in a honda?? My buddy had a 2003 civic SI, and the steering knuckles are much higher on the entire strut assembly than on most any other car I've ever seen. The steering rack sits up above and behind the motor. If you are going to have to tube-frame the front anyhow, then why not radically relocate the steering and redesign the front suspension? Regarding the transmission, I discovered a long time ago that the spline count and shaft diameters of at LEAST the L-series engines, and the EA series engines, are the same. From what I understand, the EJ is the same as the EA. I have always thought it VERY likely that combining a soobie engine with a datsun or nissan gearbox would likely be a piece of cake. Maybe, for instance, the 4x4 out of a pickup truck... hmmm... is there any way to modify the center diff on that? Anyhow, I would say some research on using a nissan box (either the stocker, or a 240SX or Z32 unit that has been swapped in by many in the past and is already explored territory) might save some trailblazing fabrication on your part. MY thought on a soobie engine in a Z has always been REAR engine, RWD.... FWD Impreza drivetrain anyone?? That, or twin engine it with an old EA82 on either axle

I and my family have thought about it a great deal, for many many years. The easiest route depends on your definition of easy.. an old 2 liter roadster engine and bellhousing would bolt straight on to an early 240 transmission with the bellhousing removed, and you would simply have to figure out motor mounts and fuel injection.. or you could swap in the engine and trans from an s13 240SX or even an older, RWD 200SX. Surprisingly, the aerodynamics of this vehicle are NOT the greatest.. but can be VASTLY improved with some work. See the Aerodynamics sub-forum for more details (You *might* still need to PM an admin for an invite into that sub-forum if it doesn't show up automatically) If you REALLY want to make a SUPER cool high-mileage daily-driver, the S30 is a decent chassis to start with. Have you checked out the eco-modder forum yet? I am not sure what the URL is but a google search of the term I typed should bring it up. If you do get into this, please post a project thread!! I would love to see what kind of results you attain.

helmet clearance at 5'11"??? thanks for the find! this may come in handy for my brothers' racecar

grumpy: forwarding to my dad and brothers

are you talking about two 3->2 collectors mounted directly to the throttle body, not dissimilar from six exhaust runners merging just before a turbo flange? Interesting idea, but I think you might encounter more eddies and impedances from the bending of the runners than an intake charge should be subjected to. The stock manifold is far too much of an impedance (runner diameter) to even bother with modifying. An LD28 manifold would be worth tinkering with, and some have. If you want to play insane games, there is the SU EFI manifold setup like what Z-ya has posted in the "Fuel" subforum.. or you could just buy a Lone Wolf intake or something similar. He re-used the flange from a stock EFI manifold... but the entire rest of his piece was made from an SU intake manifold, and he mounted two stock TBs onto it in place of SU carburetors. Add fuel rail and voila! Many have said that the intake manifold is one of the chief places to massage on an EFI L28, especially with a turbocharger. There is one manifold in the works that has had some SERIOUS computer development go into it; Personally I cannot WAIT to hear power results from it. (Not to mention the accompanying tuned exhaust note!)

Good question, I cannot say that I have seen a number ever bandied about.. I imagine it is probably very difficult to get much of a good idea, because it isnt exactly easy to vary in a controlled situation.. but I hope someone posts up a usable answer. Unfortunately, if I am not mistaken, the best you are likely to get will be vague statements, at best anecdotal evidence (such-and-such an engine with X mm intake tract length ran this kind of power/torque band) rather than "this range is good for this, that range is good for that, this totally other range is utterly worthless, and this specific length will give you 124834 horsepower."

I may as well relate my emissions testing experience... I learned this from my old man on our 87 E-250 conversion van (351 Windsor HO, 4-bbl) and in retrospect, apparently this engine had been running with the headgaskets reversed, or swapped, or somehow inverted (they tore the engine down a year or two ago, this story happened over ten years ago.) We could NOT get the thing through emissions for BEANS, and we do not have incredibly strict standards. We put a rebuilt carburetor on there, replaced the catalytic converter, and still flunked. My dad's final effort (he had tried before changing the carb and cat, but not since) was to totally run one gas tank dry, and put a gallon of Denatured Alcohol from Home Depot in. We got in the van, drove to the station.. and right past it, to the highway it was off of. (Howlermonkey: this was at Beeline and Military, circa 1994) He got out past the fire station, and we were in the middle of nowhere a mile away from the inspections place. 4-5 miles at 85 westbound, U-turn, 4-5 miles at 85 eastbound, switch over to the alcohol a little bit before he slowed down. Got in line at the inspections place (short line, did this early on a tuesday) still burning alcohol.. I think there was ONE factor that wasnt virtually ZERO, and it was like 4 ppm or ppt or .004%. Sorry I can't recall the specific units and measurements, but FL hasn't had emissions testing since 1999, and I only ever had to personally do it on one of my cars once. Anyhow, Alcohol is perfectly safe to run in any engine as a fuel, as long as it doesnt SIT in the fuel lines, pump, carb, rail, etc. The END of my story is, we immediately filled that fuel tank (gee, at like, $1.03/gallon, too) and drove 40 miles away to go to the beach that day, and 40 miles back... and so on until that tank was empty, at which point we filled it and ran it dry AGAIN. I cannot vouch for its safety in turbo cars, but I know its perfectly fine in fuel injected vehicles. High-performance engines MAY experience tuning issues with this; again, that is beyond my experience. I certainly hope someone with more knowledge to back me up can answer those questions, but to me, this is the ultimate "trick" for passing emissions testing in a tough vehicle.

Chances are that the dinky battery had more juice in it than your previous one. The light on the roof that you are having issues with is not a stock light. No 280Z ever came with a sunroof like that, and they all came with the same dinky dome light behind your headrest in the ceiling. If that light that you showed is powered by the stock dome light wires, then nevermind... BUT if that thing has its own wiring (which seems like a reasonable possibility) then your entire problem may lay with that. http://s170049317.onlinehome.us/V8-240z/Files/Datsun/Wiring/Common%20Electrical%20Testing.pdf read that page, it should help you understand how to use a multimeter, and with any luck reading that and solving your problem will make alot more about automotive electrical systems "click" in your mind.

the runner diameter of the stock intake manifold is 38 mm. The intake valve diameter is something like 42-45 mm... or larger. You do the math, but keep in mind that doubling the diameter of a channel increases its cross-sectional area by (1/2 x Diameter)^2 x pi. I haven't personally mic'd the interior diameter of the SU manifold, but I know PLENTY of people that make plenty of power out of a pair of roundtops. Z-ya: my family and I were talking about your setup today. Poor Mom :-

I know when I kicked a rear wheel on my 75 280, the outer trailing edge of the lower control arm was the point of contact. Stock suspension. I don't know if that helps, or if that much is simply stating the obvious but its what I know.

the site still lists the 75 as "Waiting on scan" Is this accurate, or will the site be updated to include a link shortly? Hate to sound like an eager kid in a candy store here, but truth is.. I've been waiting for a 75 FSM to surface on the 'net for free for ages.

I have my ideas that might work surprisingly well, with a short stroke and a big bore. Shhh. Regarding the 280ZX motor.. Oops.. Well, I just mentioned that it would be the cheapest way, i was brain farting on even mentioning it as an option. Whatever you wind up doing is going to be a customized job, and its up to you how close you want to match factory specs, and how you want to put it all together. Its just like Legos!!!

That's the spirit!!!

Good call, it is an old school trick to fool the simple ECU.. not unlike "tweaking" the AFM to run richer, or adding the rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Honestly, its not worth it anymore, thanks to megasquirt, but its cool to find for the street cred. Obviously it will have a direct impact on your fuel mileage, and if you run it too lean and hit hard throttle you risk detonation with potentially disastrous consequences.. so find a good spot, but don't try to skimp too much on gas unless you granny the throttle when you do.

did someone sayyyyyyy..... S30 Ratrod? Howsabout the Grey Ghost, so named during the years it rolled the streets of WPB in primer grey while my old man was attempting to do the ULTRA budget resto (we were so broke he was reduced to driving this beater 240, so thats what he told himself ) That was mid 90's, he got an 83ZXT by 96, and at that point the Grey Ghost became a yard decoration for four years. Around Y2k, it slowly turned into this: Immediately apparent are the 14x7 Toyota Supra wheels on it, with takeoff slicks (from god knows where) and also the cheapo G-nose kit. The g-nose was in poor shape, and massaged back into usefulness when installed on this car. It belonged to my uncle, and had came with a collection of parts. My dad used his car to put the kit back into usable condition. While it was a street car, it had a one-piece fiberglass front end on it on the road that he salvaged from a trashed fiberglass front end, and even grafted a standard ducted glass airdam onto it. We still have the old front end (not pictured) but a racer we know bought this Gnose off of him a few years back. You can see here how ghetto-rigged the G-nose was. This car became the ultimate budget racecar, his total investment was under 2 grand in like, three years of running small time local club races in parking lots. The car spanked its share of Boxters and Corvettes. In this next picture, you can see the 70 hatch with one-piece spoiler molded on. I think we still have this; it may go on my car. This paintjob was done by my dad and a friend of his, using a red color that was the result of mixing a few cans of leftovers from some other jobs his friend had done lately. The white "mouth" and smiley on the back were done because my Dad was afraid the paint would start looking too good, and it was Temporary with a capital T. He figured, he couldn't leave it looking this way for too long.... The Grey Ghost lost its original 240 motor when it threw a rod out the passenger's side of the block. For the record, the engine continued running, belching oil out all over the road while my dad pulled it into a left turn lane, waited for traffic, turned into a parking lot, and then turned the key off. When the racecar was taking shape, I begged him to use the large chunk of rod he had left as a shift knob; alas, discretion prevailed. He built a middling compression 2.8 liter block, and installed the E88 head he had made back in 85 for his OLD 240 (RIP 1989) It had the larger exhaust valves, but he retained the stock e88 intake valves, and ordered his cam accordingly. He says this head gives him great power and fuel efficiency both; all I can do is repeat what he tells me. I've never driven this motor, only seen it, watched it, help build it... My dad has had this cylinder head as long as he has had me, and the car it originally came out of (the '72) IS my earliest memory. The entire interior was gutted, and my dad welded a piece of 1" square steel between the rear shock towers. There were a couple gauges dangling around inside; by the time the car was retired it had been well set up interior-wise, but I don't have any pictures. It was an elemental beast, powered ultimately by a four barrel holley. The engine lives on today in my dad's 78 280, and the one piece fiberglass front end from its road days is destined for my 75 280. Sadly, the rust in the chassis, and the lack of dedication to this particular car wound up sentencing her to be cut in half and sent to the scrapyard about a year ago. My brothers have a 240 ITS car*, my dad has the 78*, my uncle has his 72* and a 73 auto^, and I have my 75 former DD/project^, and no one had any effort or love to give to this car. It wasnt worth selling, believe me. (*=sweet S30, ^= project/ratrod) heres a youtube playlist of six, five second video clips of the Grey Ghost at speed. I think this is in the parking lot of the MetroZoo in Miami. The 4th and 5th videos are my favorite. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=80A011318B890123 To me, the concept embodied in the term "ratrod" is about the vehicle's roots. Underneath that shiny maroon paint, that car was ALWAYS the Grey Ghost... and no matter how nice he made it look (rather clean by the end, but very superficial.. after a two year retirement it was all rusting out again) it was always function over form, with a bullet. This car taught my whole family a number of lessons, many through mistakes but many through successes as well. It will always have a special place in my garage.

please read the stickies... I am all for trying to help people nail down answers to their specific versions of the same tiny issues that come up with every engine build, but only if the user makes it apparent that they have read the requisite posts that have already explained literally EVERY question you have asked. If you can't take the time to research the engine you are building, then why should any of us take the time to answer the inane questions for the umpteenth time? We ALL know its alot easier to ask questions specific to our situation... but it is unfair to the forum members whose knowledge hoard could actually help you to expect them to teach you all the way from kindergarten. There are dozens of people on this forum posting daily who have achieved 400 horsepower with an L28ET, but none of them want to waste their time holding your hand. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just letting you know that if you do some reading, you will learn more than what you are asking, and be much better off for it.

sounds about right.. the paint might be a tad ambitious though. Try pulling the engine with your buddys' help friday night, and see if you can't get the painting all done with by saturday morning, then spend the rest of saturday working on the engine to be installed (gaskets, tune up, etc) That leaves sunday for the drop in and button up, and replace any hoses that weren't convenient to do on the stand. When you start with a running car, and an engine/trans combo ready to drop into the vehicle, an engine swap on an S30 takes 2-3 hours for an experienced pair of workers. The best advice I can think of is to get ahold of a clutch alignment tool so that you don't screw up and let the clutch disc slip out of alignment on the L26; this might be the sort of PITA thing to happen on Sunday that would prevent you from driving it before sunset.

First off, the l20 rods are different. Secondly, the N42 L28 had about 8.2-8.5 compression. Third, I want the crankshaft out of your L20 (but don't have $$ to buy/ship it, I'm just idly dropping a comment on that one) If you have an L28 that you are going to be using as a base for a turbo build, then you've got a number of options. The cheapest route would be to go with re-using your pistons and rods, keeping the boost numbers moderate, and never running it with anything less than megasquirt as a controller. The tuneability of the ECU combined with moderate boost numbers, and ample fuel, should keep you safe. Most turbo motors built for longevity are lower compression; one route to go to achieve this would be to get a set of factory dished turbo pistons.. but even then (since you are not using the factory turbo HEAD) you are not quite landing at "factory turbo motor specs." Another option is to order a set of custom pistons to lower your compression slightly, and also possibly use L24 rods, and order the pistons with an appropriate pin height. As I just read jmortensen mention on another thread, this also gives you a slightly better rod/stroke ratio. The cheapest way to achieve your goal, by FAR, would be to find a complete running 280ZXTurbo motor, even though you DO already have the one L28. Your options are many, and they are only limited by your budget. I just posted in this thread links to three books that are invaluable resources in building an L-series motor, linked in order of importance. Good luck with your build, and if you feel like chucking that crankshaft halfway around the globe for a song, let me know. I'll start warming up my voicebox.

to get the information straight from the horses mouth, you should get ahold of one of three books (honestly, all three are priceless reading; I have only thumbed through any of them but NEED to get them from my uncle) How To Modify your Nissan & Datsun OHC Engine by Frank Honsowetz How To Rebuild Your Nissan/Datsun OHC Engine and How To Hotrod & Race Your Datsun by Bob Waar Unless it is from one of a handful of other sources, any specific engine internal info I gather from the internet is treated as "regurgitated internet knowledge of possibly questionable accuracy" and NOT to be used when ordering parts. My understanding is that even when your technical specs ARE all 100% accurate, your block and crankshaft sometimes wind up not quite matching them due to machine work done in the past. In that case, the only 100% reliable way to make sure you get the right pin height is to measure your parts as they will be assembled in the shortblock, and order based off of that.

What do you need off of it?? Seriously, the time for just randomly stripping parts off of these cars for your collection and sending the car to the junkyard is 20 years past... and that car is in good enough shape that someone will want the shell at least (like you said) so, why bother stripping anything off of it? the more complete it is, the more value it has to anyone else. Of course, if the dash or any other interior pieces are good, and you ARE selling it to someone as a racer shell, then you might want to keep the dash.. but my point is, I wouldn't take anything off of it unless you wind up selling it to someone who will specifically be stripping things off of it (ie a racer) and THEN you make the call of what you keep and what you don't.

fascinating.. I'll have to see if my dad saved the plates from his 70..