Derek Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 So guess what this is. Give up? First and foremost it is the last item that I had to engineer for the KN20. Everything else is done. The standard block timing set was all that was left and this is the final part. It's also an item that may save you thousands of dollars:) Very early in the testing of the running prototype I suffered a engine shutdown during a run. Towed the car to the shop and after pulling the valve cover I noticed the welch plug had popped out of the upper tensioner. Unfortunately it fell between the chain and the crank sprocket. It chewed some teeth off and bent a whole lotta valves. Fixed it all up and on the new tensioner I put a couple of tacks between the body and the plug with silicone bronze rod. You can see it in the picture on my mockup tensioner. Ran it for a bit and during an inspection I noticed one of the welds cracked and the plug was on it's way out. WTF?? I ended up drilling through the body of the tensioner and pinning it which was a total PIA. I'm convinced it was the crappy Crane Cams lobe design that was pumping the crap out of the chain and the hydraulics blew the plug out. So this bracket is there as a safety just in case. So sad to say this thread is probably going to get a whole lot duller since there won't be anything new to post engineering wise. I may throw a pic up now and then but I'm thinking this is probably close to the end. Thanks for all of the support and great ideas from my HybridZ family. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perra Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I´ve been lurking this thread since a long time, but I feel now is a good time to post. Awesome work Derek! What a great contribution to the L community! Since you feel you're nearing the end of the thread, any chance you can make a post where you list the prices and options so we don´t have to look through 50+ pages to find the info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Perra said: I´ve been lurking this thread since a long time, but I feel now is a good time to post. Awesome work Derek! What a great contribution to the L community! Since you feel you're nearing the end of the thread, any chance you can make a post where you list the prices and options so we don´t have to look through 50+ pages to find the info? Hi Perra Here is a link to the pricing. There are a lot of different ways to build the head so there is no single price listed. You'll need to do some math:) KN20 Pricing Edited February 21, 2019 by Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyMahoney Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just fill this thread with pictures of peoples installs and sound clips:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munters Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Do you know if the jenvey heritage (DCOE like) would fit incl. an airfilter (induction "noise") otherwise I would not pass inspection and change the head every 2 years would be crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 5 hours ago, DuffyMahoney said: Just fill this thread with pictures of peoples installs and sound clips:) Well that would be nice. 4 hours ago, munters said: Do you know if the jenvey heritage (DCOE like) would fit incl. an airfilter (induction "noise") otherwise I would not pass inspection and change the head every 2 years would be crazy. In theoryville, the land of my people, I designed the intakes to hold a DCOE body and a K&N short air filter. It has not been tested yet. I'll see if 005 can get a decent measurement between the shock tower and the face of the throttle body. He is running the heritage bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Well not too much new as you said, and that's fine, this is currently 54 pages of awesome! Do you know if any of these (#0005 especially) have been dyno'd? It looked like the 7K rpm was easy as pie. is the VTC running yet? I'd love to buy one of these, but lack of cash is always an issue. For now I'm just going to need to be happy drooling on my KB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 11:19 AM, Pharaohabq said: Well not too much new as you said, and that's fine, this is currently 54 pages of awesome! Do you know if any of these (#0005 especially) have been dyno'd? It looked like the 7K rpm was easy as pie. is the VTC running yet? I'd love to buy one of these, but lack of cash is always an issue. For now I'm just going to need to be happy drooling on my KB. Hi Phar Sorry for the late reply. No SN005 has not dyno'd his car after the initial tune yet. The intake manifolds were never port matched to the head. He sent them up to me recently and I machined them for him. He had to fatten up the tune quite a bit as it was going lean. I'm sure at some point he'll do it but he is super happy with the power it's making. As he say's "scary fast" Driving my car with the VCT pretty much every day. Got right around 2K on it and no new noises or problems. Had the valve cover off multiple times checking things and it always looks the same. I have a little chain noise on overrun but seems to bother me more than anyone else:) I wish I had the time and money to build my stroker because the head really wants more air. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyMahoney Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I am building a 3.0-3.2L next winter, gosh I might need to save up my nickles for this head. Dammit Derek:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 3/27/2019 at 2:56 PM, DuffyMahoney said: I am building a 3.0-3.2L next winter, gosh I might need to save up my nickles for this head. Dammit Derek:) Yes yes let the hate flow through you. I'd shoot for a 3.2 for sure. I'm planing a 3.2 for my final build. Offset ground crank, Honda rods and custom 11.5 or 12:1 pistons. That should really bring the head alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineptitude01 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 17 hours ago, Derek said: That should really bring the head alive. Speaking of bringing the head alive, has anybody planned a turbo build yet, or still all NA? It seems like a modern gigantor turbo would be a really good match to this head's flow potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 A few have enquired about it but there are no concrete plans that I have heard of. There is no historical data on the head as to how much boost is too much boost. Pretty big risk on something this expensive. I'm sure someday someone will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 7 hours ago, Derek said: A few have enquired about it but there are no concrete plans that I have heard of. There is no historical data on the head as to how much boost is too much boost. Pretty big risk on something this expensive. I'm sure someday someone will. As much as the block can handle But really, I know this isn't EXACTLY like a K head in any sense of the word, but if we let the four cylinder crowd bench race for us, I think 600hp on pump gas at around 16-18psi wouldn't be unreasonable. Going beyond that you'd better have done some serious prep to keep bores round and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 Pete McDonnell made a comment on FB about how much pressure and stress a head that flows this much will put on the deck. The head being hot isostatic pressed and then heat treated to T6 will help for sure but unless you know exactly what you are doing with a turbo build of this nature you may be in for sad times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Yes, the Turbo world will be interesting. All depends on how easily JeffP's SOHC build goes. Got over $4K into making a stiff rigid block and really can't see myself cashing in $30K for an L-Series Bullet Billet Block to be super rigid and stiff enough not to twist around like Pete talks about... Actually in the conceptual stage a high flow, high rpm turbo application was EXACTLY what this head was envisioned to be employed upon. Something that didn't NEED 15psi plus to make decent horsepower... A GT42 on this thing with a smaller than you might think hotside A/R coupled with variable intake valve timing might really be surprising to a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 It seems the pent roof chamber would be a real plus for a turbo build detonation wise. I know next to nothing about turbo builds and what it takes to get in the range of 500 HP at the crank with a P90. Normally aspirated with the KN20 you are looking at 3.5L slinging it at 9000 to 9500 RPMs RPM's and displacement are what drives NA builds through the roof. Maybe a standard 3.0 stroker with a custom piston to take advantage of the chamber design and a small turbo might result in a very fun driver. But like I said I'm no turbo guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 The trick is no block boring---thick cylinders with a filled block that keeps everything stable... Make your power on flow and rpms, the stock L28 wouldn't usually use a big turbine but the RPM's will need the flow from the bigger turbo to maintain the lower boost power. I mean a 3.5 is only 25% larger than a 2.8 so that's nothing that boost can't achieve... a 1 bar boost should give you the performance of a 5.6 out of a 2.8 revving to the same rpm...twist it tighter and make more power! If you got the FLOW. That's what the head provides, and the proof of concept of how the car runs on 10:1 CR is a GREAT indication of how the turbo car would run off-boost as for a Honda/PentRoof design 10:1 CR is relatively conservative when it comes to turbocharging compression ratio! If nothing else you get the torque of an L28 with 10:1 CR to drive around below boost threshold. But not needing a lot of 'boost' to massflow through a 350cfm port you end up with a lot of air and fuel in the combustion chamber, mowhahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 On 9/21/2014 at 3:52 AM, G-E said: Cometic will stamp out mls gaskets for you for all sides if you order 25 sets btw... might even be fairly economical considering they can just add ports to existing gasket designs for intake/exhaust if you're keeping any of them k-series style... Five years down the road almost to the DAY that this is posted and JeffP is awaiting his 'first article' head gasket. It's 'fairly economical' is at a cost of over $5,000 for the die tooling. That was to CORRECT the measurment issues with their current issue gasket. It appears they simply copied a FelPro, and never actually checked a block, or a head to see how they lined up! JeffP remedied that, and his gasket which will arrive within the coming weeks is thusfar costing him probably $15,000 in developmental work on the cooling system and the die costs for the first gasket. On the upside, anybody buying one of these heads can rest assured JeffP will have gaskets that EXACTLY match this head cooling hole configuration, and will accept up to a 91.5mm bore if I recall my last phone conversation with Jeff correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 On 10/5/2014 at 10:57 AM, 1vicissitude said: I don't have the money at this time for a head like this, so what I am saying is purely conjecture at this point, but I have the feeling if one were built, running and making good power the orders would come. It is not uncommon for modified k24s to be making 350-400whp N/A these days, honestly it's just a matter of a port job and a combination of the right parts. There's no wizardry in it, anyone with a credit card can copy and paste one of the many known combinations. At the end of the day a $8,000-10,000 is surely expensive, however if these heads are 400whp capable and proven it puts them in direct competition with most swaps both in terms of power and cost. I bet you'd find there are more customers than you would first like to think. I mean even a basic LS or RB swap costs similar. Oh, finding this... Rebello built a 3.5 with a V3 Head, running some beautiful headers and small 45mm intake bodies and it made 498HP at 7500 rpms... with relatively low compression like 11:1... So seeing it work is pretty satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 I know a lot of you follow this thread and I wanted to give you a heads up I'm coming out with a CD009 bell housing. I just posted a pretty detailed build thread over in Driveline. https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/131751-cd009-bellhousing-build-thread-warning-lots-o-pics/ There is a bonus video towards the end:) Thanks Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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