Invincibleextremes Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, jpndave said: BTW, any re-spline work is most likely going to be cut, not rolled. Rolling basically forges the spline into the shaft but is for much larger scale production and would be near impossible on the hardened stock. Moser would likely not have the reduced diameter on the shafts but again, price will be great for a custom shaft. For maximum strength, you need to step away from a lot of the stock pieces and prices go up. That's where the 930/934 CV pieces with corresponding stubs to hub and differential come into play. HTH, Dave The $1,200/pair price tag isn't for shafts, its for the entire thing, 930 cv joints and all. With 34 spline stub axles into the housing and 32 spline stub going into the hub bearing. Totally agree with you on the smaller diameter full floater style shafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Went digging in the junkyard today with the CV spider in my pocket. Turns out the 02 explorer has the same diameter shaft ends... but courser splines. The good news is its a solid heat treated shaft and its the same thickness its whole length, necking down only for the splines. I also called moser and talked to them about sending in a core shaft and paying for two pairs of CV axle spline service and they're happy to do it so long as they look everything over and it seams like it works. Cutting the heat treating off the hollow shafts just wasn't sitting well with me. I also discovered that the two left shafts are different on the ends in diameter and one had a slightly smaller cv joint pair... I'm guessing i got one v8 shaft and the other from a v6 car. Both are splined the same into the housing and at the hubs... but one is stronger than the other with bigger cv joints. The left and right v8 shaft have the same size cv joints... its just the spare left shaft had some differences. Going back to the junkyard tomorrow to compare my cv joint to the explorer outer cv. If they are the same internally i plan on building a hybrid cv. But if they're different I'll pay for 2 pairs of spline service and know that I'll never have to worry about the strength of those shafts... Edited January 22, 2019 by Invincibleextremes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Did some digging online. The left hand axle that ends with "BC" is for the v8. The one that ends in "ac" is for the weaker ecoboost. Ending in "38-BC" is right hand, and "39-BC" is left hand. Edited January 22, 2019 by Invincibleextremes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 An example of what to avoid... the "AC" axles. It'll be on the tag, but this seller put it on the shaft as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Went digging in the junkyard today. The hybrid cv joint idea is a no go, mustangs used 8 balls while the explorer (2004) used 6 balls. Would have saved me $125 by not having to spline both ends. But not a deal breaker. Still much cheaper than the 800hp axles, just not as cheap as I'd hoped. Here is a picture that shows why i picked these axles as cores. The shaft in the middle is the mustang one that i cut a section out of to make the perfect length. Edited January 23, 2019 by Invincibleextremes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Waiting on my axles to return. Meanwhile I'm finishing everything up and will be ready to drive it once the axles are back. Need to plumb up my wilwood pedals and maybe weld up some of the rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Got my axles back from moser and they messed them up pretty bad. Now I'm out a couple of $35 cores and the money spent cutting them. I have contacted them and they told me to email them pictures and that they'll send it up and see what they'll do about it. The only right thing to do about it would be to refund me $70 for the cores, pay for shipping and cut me another pair of axles. But we shall see if thats what they'll do. I'm losing a lot of time on the back and forth regardless, but all I want is a proper pair of axles... The darker ones are the sample stubs i sent in, and the in white ones are the ones they cut wrong... even though they had a sample to compare to... all 4 ends are done wrong. The biggest problem is they cut the space between the splines too wide and the cv star or spider has a ton of slop in it... so simply cutting it for another snap ring on the back side won't fix it Edited February 9, 2019 by Invincibleextremes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpndave Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Sorry to hear about the problems. If the splines are loose on the stars, meaning you can twist the star on the splines - scrap metal. However, the stars sliding may not be a problem. If you look at the picture I posted above you can see that the splines are long and there is no shoulder inside. On the Porsche 930 style joints, in a non-steering application, at least one or both joints float on the shaft to allow for changes in length as the suspension cycles. The cups inside the joints need to allow for the movement. Basically the shaft floats between the two snap rings stopped from going "in" by the outer ring and going "out" by the inner. As long as lengths and clearances are correct and not binding it should work. On a cv/tripod setup, the tripod takes up the length change and the cv is set ridgid like those shafts you have. Tripods are heavy and weak but necessary in a steering application. Manufacturers sometimes use them as it can be a cheaper/less precise solution in the rear and they will take up substantially more length change. In that style the star needs to be contained as tripod will just slide out. Maybe an inner snap ring would do it if your second joint is a tripod. Food for thought anyway. Edited February 9, 2019 by jpndave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnickel Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, jpndave said: Sorry to hear about the problems. If the splines are loose on the stars, meaning you can twist the star on the splines - scrap metal. However, the stars sliding may not be a problem. If you look at the picture I posted above you can see that the splines are long and there is no shoulder inside. On the Porsche 930 style joints, in a non-steering application, at least one or both joints float on the shaft to allow for changes in length as the suspension cycles. The cups inside the joints need to allow for the movement. Basically the shaft floats between the two snap rings stopped from going "in" by the outer ring and going "out" by the inner. As long as lengths and clearances are correct and not binding it should work. On a cv/tripod setup, the tripod takes up the length change and the cv is set ridgid like those shafts you have. Tripods are heavy and weak but necessary in a steering application. Manufacturers sometimes use them as it can be a cheaper/less precise solution in the rear and they will take up substantially more length change. In that style the star needs to be contained as tripod will just slide out. Maybe an inner snap ring would do it if your second joint is a tripod. Food for thought anyway. I thought that was only something the VW dune buggy guys did. They lengthened and loosened the splines to allow extreme suspension travel. I don’t think it was something the original 930 used. I was aghasted by the amount of slop in an unnamed 930 based CV conversion for the Z I bought. The end to end rotational play was 1/2” (at the 6” diameter. Not sure what that corresponds to in degrees). Compared to any other axle I’ve held it was not confidence inspiring and I can imagine the driveline clunks that would result. I have a set of true 930 CVs downstairs that I can check. Bought them with plans to make a proper cv conversions, but went z31t after more thought. With the the scope of the project at hand and its goal of a bulletproof setup, sliding sloppy spines aren’t in the cards I’d guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Sliding sloppy splines aren't in the cards at all. The cv design on these axles uses an octipod... like a tripod but with 8 balls. And it takes up all the movement. The cv shaft was never supposed to move at all. But like you said i can always add another snap ring. The overall play is what concerns me. It'll wobble itself apart and sheer the splines in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpndave Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 If it's loose on the splines I wouldn't even think about it. They need to back up their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpndave Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 hours ago, mtnickel said: I thought that was only something the VW dune buggy guys did. They lengthened and loosened the splines to allow extreme suspension travel. I don’t think it was something the original 930 used. I was aghasted by the amount of slop in an unnamed 930 based CV conversion for the Z I bought. The end to end rotational play was 1/2” (at the 6” diameter. Not sure what that corresponds to in degrees). Compared to any other axle I’ve held it was not confidence inspiring and I can imagine the driveline clunks that would result. I have a set of true 930 CVs downstairs that I can check. Bought them with plans to make a proper cv conversions, but went z31t after more thought. With the the scope of the project at hand and its goal of a bulletproof setup, sliding sloppy spines aren’t in the cards I’d guess The desert race boys loosen up the star/ball clearance for more travel not the splines. They resort to finned housings to control heat and 300M cages to keep things from exploding. Spline fit stays tight. The shafts need to float somehow either in the splines captured at both ends by snap rings and a plunging style joint which is strongest/best/lightest if the application will allow it. The shafts can be stronger as the inside doesn't need a shoulder or snap ring which allows for zero stress risers in the stressed portion of the shaft. That method needs to be pretty minimal distance change. If memory serves correct maybe 1/2" but don't quote me on that. The other method has both splined ends captured. One non-plunging joint and one joint that has in and out travel like the tripod. Front outer steering joints travel/angle too much for a Rzeppa joint for example. Sloppy suspension design with lots of distance change can be an issue too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreeman1 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Super excited to see these finished!! I’m leaving in July for a year. Traveling for Uncle Sam lol. But if you could hold a pair for me, I’d love to buy a full set when I return! Can’t wait to get my 280 up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Well, the good news is i have a 200 amp mig welder with shielding gas. And i now have a plasma cutter and im decent with it. I have located the last piece of the puzzle, the spindle sleeves and can now make as many or as few kits as i want or can sell. I'm no longer dependent on having to laser cut batches and have some parts be a minimum of 110 pieces. I'll see how far i get over the next few days on a kit or two and will post them for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluidmotion Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 It's great to see this project is not only still alive but getting better and better. What plasma cutter did you get? Is it CNC or you cutting by hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braveplayer3160 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Really interested in the kits when you have them ready! Subscribed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Plasma is "by hand" but stencils etc won't be hard to come up with. The axles I'm waiting on from Moser are STILL not here, due to weather delays. I'll be away for the next week and unable to touch the setup untill i get back. At that point i really hope i return to perfect axles from moser... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Got the axles back from moser. They're not as bad as the first set, and i can finally use them. But they are not the length I gave them and the shoulder on one side is completely wrong. I am now looking for another company for future orders, because there is no excuse for this. They wasted 4 weeks of my time to give me product that doesn't even come close to being correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdone Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Dutchman Axles used to be a local company, then moved to Idaho. They're much smaller then Mosier, but big enough to not screw it up when you explain what you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincibleextremes Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Yeah I'll have to contact them for future batches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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