Dyno'd my stock L28ET today - coolant everywhere!

[AlbatrossCafe]

Went to the Dyno today expecting to do 5 pulls and get a horsepower number. I am planning a significant amount of upgrades soon so I wanted a baseline. This place lets you run the car yourself on the dyno. I had never done something like this before, so my first run I stopped at 5500 RPM.

 

The second run I went all the way to 6200 RPM. Better numbers, but we thought there was an air leak. Upon closer inspection, we saw coolant going everywhere! Apparently a weird old T-fitting on coolant lines had failed. It killed my dyno session. Luckily, the shop let me replace the T-fitting there myself using their equipment and I was able to head home.

 

But not without this interesting dyno chart! This is a 99% stock L28ET. Swapped by previous owner around 2004. The only thing not stock is that the air intake is moved in front of the radiator and there is an oil cooler.

 

Dyno Chart

 

Peak Power: 148.86 hp at ~5700 RPM   -   MEGA POWER!!!

Peak Torque: 161.37 ft/lbs at ~4400 RPM

 

EDIT: Done with 1978 280z 5-speed transmission and rear diff in 3rd gear.

 

I'm gonna be honest - I thought there was more power under there lol. But I'm not complaining! It certainly feels like it with how light this car is.

 

But what the heck is with everything taking a dump @5k?

 

 

Action Shots:

 

 

Coolant Pouring!!

 

The busted T-fitting - wtf is this thing?

 

 

Fresh T-fitting Installed!

 

 

My buddy who was nice enough to come by and help!

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by AlbatrossCafe

[AlbatrossCafe]

This was a baseline. In the next month, I plan to add the following:

 

• Megasquirt 2 with electronic boost controller
• Electric Rad fan
• Intercooler with 2.25" piping
• Blow-off valve
• 240sx 60mm throttle body
• Supra 440cc injectors
• Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
• MSA 2.5" downpipe
• 3" custom mandrel-bent exhaust with Aeroturbine 3030XL muffler

 

Looks like I should probably add "inspection of all hoses and fittings" to the list haha!

[Gollum]

24 minutes ago, AlbatrossCafe said:

But not without this interesting dyno chart! This is a 99% stock L28ET. Swapped by previous owner around 2004. The only thing not stock is that the air intake is moved in front of the radiator and there is an oil cooler.

 

Dyno Chart

 

Peak Power: 148.86 hp at ~5700 RPM   -   MEGA POWER!!!

Peak Torque: 161.37 ft/lbs at ~4400 RPM

 

I'm gonna be honest - I thought there was more power under there lol. But I'm not complaining! It certainly feels like it with how light this car is.

 

But what the heck is with everything taking a dump @5k?

 

Believe it or not, those numbers aren't THAT BAD.

 

Sure, lots of stock L28ET's dyno closer to 160-170who, but there's a myriad of things that could be reasons why your numbers are low. Regarding the dip in power, that could be a million things as well. The AFRs show stable though, so it's likely mechanical in nature of some form. If it makes you feel better, here's a random dyno I found of a 350Z with a similar dip, and that's a heck of a lot newer design in all areas:

 

 

I bet with a proper timing curve tune it'll just... go away. Also, could be something as simple as the factory knock sensor getting triggered by valvetrain noise or what have you. That'd be the kind of thing to check when doing FIVE runs instead of TWO.

[Skull_Leader]

It's just a feature to help cool down your starter!
Can't be driving around with a hot starter, y'know...

[turbogrill]

I wouldn't bother until you have ms installed! You should get a wideband, what about timing?

[AlbatrossCafe]

2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

I wouldn't bother until you have ms installed! You should get a wideband, what about timing?

Yeah, exactly. I barely know anything about this subject. Turbos and engine stuff is all new to me. I am getting a tune put on the megasquirt from user Chickenman I believe so ideally I'll not have to mess around with timing and whatever else barely if at all.

I'm assuming the stock O2 sensor is not wideband? I was hoping that MS would pick that all up for me.

[cgsheen]

Get a 14point7 Spartan 2 wideband to go with your megasquirt.

[Chickenman]

Yep. 14point7 = good stuff. Just stay far, far away from Innovate. POS.  OEM O2 sensor is Narrow Band. You need a Wide band. 

[turbogrill]

29 minutes ago, Chickenman said:

Yep. 14point7 = good stuff. Just stay far, far away from Innovate. POS.  OEM O2 sensor is Narrow Band. You need a Wide band. 

 

What is your concern about innovate? 

[malibud]

Innovate is terrible i am on my 4th controller (its brand new in the box still in the box they just keep sending me new ones i have practically rewired everything trying to get it to work 

[madkaw]

If course I think my 14/7 is going out also, so not sure what’s the best,

 

As far as the dyno numbers, good baseline to start with. At least you did this so you can relate numbers to Butt dyno. 

[turbogrill]

I assume controlling timing is very important for turbo. He also needs a DIYAUTOTUNE trigger wheel to pop into is dizzy right?

 

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

I assume controlling timing is very important for turbo. He also needs a DIYAUTOTUNE trigger wheel to pop into is dizzy right?

 

 

You only need that trigger if you want to run COP/Wasted Spark with an easy to setup config. The stock 82/83 turbo can send signal to MS (any version) and manage the coil directly, as long as you have a high current driver you can use for it. Otherwise you can use some form of ignition box to activate the coil from signal with MS. Look up "mobythevan". His setup used MSnS + a GM HEI module to control a factory coil. This is no different than many direct coil control setups that have existed since the first days of MSnS, in that you send MS basic tach signal from any digital distributor and let MS inject it's own control over the ignition module that fires the coil.

 

That said, looking at what I spent I'm not sure I'd go any other way than full Sequential COP. Using MS2 would mean you have to run batch injection, and wasted spark, but that's not a big deal in the grand scheme and gets you GOOD coils with WAY more power. Not to mention I can get replacement coils anywhere and they're not very expensive.

[Chickenman]

" Moby The Van " article is getting pretty dated theses days. You are better off following the MS Extra Hardware manual and using either a BIP373 for a Ignition driver or a PRW2.  Bip 373 is a whole $8.50. PRW2 can be found for as little as $10 to $15. 

 

 A lot of changes and improvements in Builds and Firmware since that article was written.

[Chickenman]

Individual COP is nice, because you can do spark timing trim per cylinder. #5 and #6 running a bit hot?  You can trim them back a degree or two individually. Very nice feature. 

[Chickenman]

9 hours ago, malibud said:

Innovate is terrible i am on my 4th controller (its brand new in the box still in the box they just keep sending me new ones i have practically rewired everything trying to get it to work 

Biggest problem with Innovate and why it kills O2 sensors is that " apparently " if it detects any Error message, even a temporary one. it shuts down the heater circuit. Until the next restart. That will kill O2 sensors in a real hurry. 

 

Other WB controllers including OEM don't do that. You log the error message( Contamination, out of range  or aging ) you don't shut down the whole heater circuit.

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, Chickenman said:

" Moby The Van " article is getting pretty dated theses days. You are better off following the MS Extra Hardware manual and using either a BIP373 for a Ignition driver or a PRW2.  Bip 373 is a whole $8.50. PRW2 can be found for as little as $10 to $15. 

 

 A lot of changes and improvements in Builds and Firmware since that article was written.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. My point was that we've had docs on how to control spark in these cars LOOOONG before anyone was making trigger wheels.

9 hours ago, Chickenman said:

Individual COP is nice, because you can do spark timing trim per cylinder. #5 and #6 running a bit hot?  You can trim them back a degree or two individually. Very nice feature. 

I spent $166 on my trigger wheels, coils, plug wires, and connector kit... It's peanuts in the grand scheme.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Gollum
Correct price looked up

[stupid_fast]

Unrelated to your fueling, but something I noticed with your setup that wasn't addressed, 

The original T-fitting you replaced on the ZXT heater hoses is a bypass reverse thermostat for warm up! 

You cannot simply replace it with a T-fitting, you've created a coolant bypass. 
Hot water is now coming out of the head, and going straight back into the water pump. 
Cap or put the single outlet fitting on the back of the head.  That way the only time coolant will flow back there is when the heater core valve is open. 

I made the same mistake and my car would never stay cool on the track until I found that out.

Also generally a good idea to check all hoses, clamps, and fittings. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by stupid_fast

[cgsheen]

22 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

What is your concern about innovate? 

 

I had an MTX-L and it's gauge was never reading the same as the data sent to MS and Tuner Studio.  I researched it and found voluminous info on the internet about the issue and how Innovate builds (wires) their controllers. 

 

The 14point7 Spartan 2 has an interesting feature to assure that it's output to the ECU is calibrated properly.  (the way you wire your install can have an affect on your sensors...)

 

(I also have to say that my L28ET has never run this smoothly since adding MS3X and implementing full sequential COP and full sequential fuel...  I thought it was overkill for this old tech engine but I'm loving the way it's running now)

[AlbatrossCafe]

4 hours ago, stupid_fast said:

Unrelated to your fueling, but something I noticed with your setup that wasn't addressed, 

The original T-fitting you replaced on the ZXT heater hoses is a bypass reverse thermostat for warm up! 

You cannot simply replace it with a T-fitting, you've created a coolant bypass. 
Hot water is now coming out of the head, and going straight back into the water pump. 
Cap or put the single outlet fitting on the back of the head.  That way the only time coolant will flow back there is when the heater core valve is open. 

I made the same mistake and my car would never stay cool on the track until I found that out.

Also generally a good idea to check all hoses, clamps, and fittings. 

 

I was worried about something like this. Unfortunately I have read your comment like 15x but I am still confused...

 

I mocked up a pic of how I think the coolant flows. Is this correct? (Red arrows are hot coolant flowing through the system, blue arrows are coolant after it has passed through the heater core). I guess I don't understand how the T-fitting is a thermostat and when it turns on. Here is the original pic if you can wanna draw something yourself to explain it better.

 

Furthermore, are you saying if I remove this hose and turn the T-fitting into basically an elbow fitting (that doesn't connect to the back of the head) it will solve my problem?