Deal Gone Sour - Not All 'Hybriders' Have Code of Ethics

[Tim240z]

Take care of your business with him FIRST and THEN let us know.

 

He has been trying with no further response....like I said...last resort......

[J Taylor]

I know Ivan personally and can wholly attest to his integrity as well. I'm not sure exactly how getting the wrong parts happened but I know Ivan very well and know that he would not knowingly screw anyone over, especially someone on here. His car was built and torn apart in my shop. I rode in the car on more than a couple of occasions. I know the stuts that came out of his car were used for a very short time and were indeed in a 240z......73 I believe. Have you tried to put these struts on your car and them not fit or are you going by the part number? Maybe there is a small difference in the struts but will work on both cars. I dunno. Has to be some explanation for it. I know when I went to buy rear shackles for my lightning the local shop sold me a set for a chevy and said they would work. Sure enough.....and the chevy ones were cheaper. Anyway, just wanted to add my .02.

 

JT

[DaleMX]

Sure hope this Ivan guy steps up to the plate and makes it right. All can still be made right Ivan, just get involved or risk business losses caused from posts like this.

[Z-Gad]

Wow, I'm kind of floored by this as well. I can't believe you are talking about the same Ivan that I know...honest, stand up guy...surely there must be a logical explaination. I can't imagine Ivan intentionally misleading anyone...

 

C'mon Ivan, contact this guy and get this matter resolved. I hate to see people's names dragged through the mud

[240Z2NV]

wigenout-S30

Since you know him personally, and he has yet to come public with his perspective, AND, he is an immigrant, could he have a communication breakdown in this matter? I tried to make myself crystal clear with Ivan that if they 'worked' in his car, great; but, I'm not spending years and over $10k on this project to have 'good enough'. I expected the CORRECT part, in excellent condition. If he was ripped off by the original installer who sold him incorrect struts, that is unfortunate; HOWEVER, after I brought it to his attention that they were, in fact, 280ZXT struts he should have done the right thing by taking them back (what he did with them after that is not my concern). No one benefits by perpetuating the cycle of deceit.

 

2slo4u

Maybe you should slow down fast guy, and read the threads more carefully. I tried several times to remedy the situation.......ad nauseum (which means, essentially, "and on, and on, and on"...just for you )

 

And last, as stated earlier (for the benefit of you armchair quarterbacks) I accept that I should have just bought new.

[Guest 2slo4u]

Ha, ha funny guy. Hopefully this gets cleared up soon. I'm curious to see Ivan's decision. What? add nausea? huh? Good luck.

 

81zxturbo(300zxecu,mas,cranksensor,newinjectors...AHH, much better!)

95slobaru(just slow)

[wigenOut-S30]

I am sure Ivan will contact him and also make a post. He goes to school all day and works well into the wee hours. I am sure he will post when he can. Some of us are not as fortunate to have a computer and internet at a moments whim.

[Forrest]

Wait a second...did you decide to section, or not? Did you discuss that with Ivan when you made your purchase? Are you aware that that usually involves moving the front struts to the rear and using a shorter set of struts on the front?

 

You might also mention how much time passed between your purchase and when you tried to get back in touch with him.

[240Z2NV]

For 'Forrest's' benefit -

The initial transaction was very explicit in that I was looking for correct Illuminas for a 240Z, OE ride height. I was concerned that his tag name and pic were of a Z other than a 240Z, and clarified my objectives again with him prior to the delivery. Clearly, Ivan was not the person with whom I need to consult regarding suitability or fitment, as he knew very little about the applications. When I need expert advice, I contact MikeKelly or John Coffey. He merely confirmed that they were correct for OE 240Zs. When they did arrive, I questioned why, with only two thousand miles, the strut bodies would be all scratched up and have rust on them (like, maybe they were installed without oil in the tubes?!).

 

Many, many months passed, as the progress on my hybrid has been slow. The Illuminas have sat in the closet in their original shipped container from Ivan. The struts have never been installed, as my project has never gotten past the 'shell' phase.

 

How much time has passed is totally inconsequential when you are talking about getting parts other than those agreed upon. AND, I was referring to sectioning the strut bodies to accomodate my coilovers, which, if you do some searches on the Suspension Forum, you will realize that installing coilovers does not mandate an altered ride height if doing so merely for tire clearance....okay?

 

I have all email correspondence between the two of us in a desktop folder, would you like me to forward that to you, as well, for your perusal?

[Forrest]

Ok, let me get this straight - you don't want to change your ride height but you're planning on sectioning your strut housings? All I asked was if you were aware that sectioning your housings involves getting DIFFERENT struts than you would put into a stock 240z, assuming you want to keep the suspension travel. If you don't, why would you section them in the first place?

 

The period of time between events seems pretty relevant to me. Let's say it was a period of a year...how does he know what's happened to them in that time?

 

Frankly, I'm not sure where your hostility towards ME is coming from. I was suprised enough at your tone that I double checked my post after reading your reply - all I asked for was a few very simple clarifications. If you didn't want to provide details, then I don't know why you bothered to post any of this in the first place. If this is how you talk to people, I'm not surprised you did not reach a satisfactory conclusion with your dealings.

 

'Forrest' (which is my real name, thanks)

[Ivan280zt]

Hey guys

 

I really dont know where to start but here is what I have to say.

I have been on Hybridz since around 01. When one of my best friends got me into Z cars he told me that this site is all that i will ever need and since i came here i never looked back. This is the only Z site i have registered and gone too. Hybridz will always be one and only one for me. When Hubridz was in need i did my part and i helped out as much i could if i was as bad of guy as Mr. Stan is saying that i am then in that case Hybridz in need would not be my problem but it was my problem. This place is my home and these members are my familly and you coming on here Mr. Stan and trying to make me look like evil person is like insult to my home and my familly. I would like to appologize in advance if what i am about to say offends anyone but English is my second language with matter as sensative as this i will try my best not to offend anyone. That said there are few things that i would like to disagree with Mr. Stan and i would like to bring up few things that he has somehow "ForgottenO to mention.

 

 

 

1. When Mr. Stan was interested in my struts i sent him few hi-resolution pictures to show him the condition of struts. If he would not mind looking in his PM box he would find that i told him that rear struts were installed and never pulled back out (until i took it part to sell them) but i had problem with my front struts bottoming out when i would hit bigger pot hoole so there for i had to take front assembly in and out few times to try to figure out what was going on. Afther talking to Mike (ON3GO) i figured out that i never installed washer that was required for front so i got the washer put it on and my bottoming out problem went away. When i was pulling them in and out i never put any oil in my strut catriage sp and thats the reason why they were scratched out not because as you say that they did not fit. So Mr. Stan you can stop BS about not knowing why they were scratched out because i have sent you more than few pictures so all you have to do is look in your PM Box and there is your friendlly reminder of true story and not the only that you are telling.

 

2. I sold you struts about 10 months ago in perfect working conditon with no scratches on shafts, no oil leaking anywhere, with very nice movement up & down, and it was responding to all settings (1 through 5). When i sent them i wrapped living crap out of them (especially around shafts) put each one of them in separate box and then all of them together in one box. Now Mr. Stan am i lying about this too now? Do i have to get my buddy from here to vouch for me because it just happens that he was there when i took struts out, he personally took the pictures of it with his digital camera, and it just happens that same night he was around when i was packing them. So now are you gonna call us both liars Mr. Stan?

 

3. I sent the struts few days later when payment arrived. Mr. Stan got them several days latter and from then i never heard from him again so i was in impression that transaction went nice and smooth and everyone was happy.

 

4. I get email from Mr. Stan about 2 weeks ago and he is asking me if i still had original recipet for struts because he was having some kind of issues with them (did not really go in specific). I looked in my portfolio sp where i keep all of my Z stuff and i found it. I emailed to him that there was not much info on recipet except that it said 4 240Z ADJUSTABLE STRUTS, price of them and that was about it so i told him i would not have problem sending it to him. Few days later he emails me telling me that he wont be needing it no more because it turns out that two of them were for 280zx and they wont honor lifetime warranty because of inproper installation. So he sends me email explaining me that two of them were incorect and i belive he asked me how much i charged him to which i replied with this:

 

From: RJURISIC@aol.com [mailto:RJURISIC@aol.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:56 AM

To: handymanstan@comcast.net

Subject: Re: HybridZ Member Purchase

 

 

 

Stan,

 

 

 

I am sorry to hear that. I paid about $640 for all four of them and i belive that i sold them to you for something like $280 or so not really sure. If i knew that they were for 280zx (i had no reason not to belive it because they fitted and worked fine on my s30) i would have not sold them to you. I have more that hand full of people that i have delt with before and they all can confirm that i am very honest person and i would never screw anyone over for any reason especially another member from the board that i am on every day. You know what i mean? Only thing that i can think of is me calling tokico and telling them that my "280zx" struts went bad and that i need them replaced because i still have recipet for them. Let me know what you think. Btw what does SOB mean?

 

 

 

ps. if it takes me while to respond i apologize but i have school every day and work six days a week so i can only check my emai about one or twice a week.

 

 

 

Ivan

 

 

Right there i told him that i can only get to computer once a week because i stay with my cousins who dont have one so i have to go to my sister house to use hers and i barelly had time to do that too. My day starts at 5am and i go to sleep about 12:30am so checking my email is not my #1 priority. As you can tell i wrote that on thursday which is my only day off. Now he emails me few days later but i was not able to check my email yet. This is his response:

 

Ivan,

 

I know that you are busy; but, I have two small companies that keep me pretty busy, as well. Please let me know what you’ve come up with as a fair resolution to the wrong Illuminas that were sold to me. Again, I am not saying that it was done with malice; but, you cannot expect me to pay for parts that are incorrect. If it will give you peace-of-mind, we can post it on the Hybrid site and collect opinions on how to resolve it as fairly as possible; but, that wouldn’t be my choice had I been the ‘seller’. Please update me…

 

Stan

 

My response:

 

On Oct 30, 2004, at 1:36 PM, RJURISIC@aol.com wrote:

 

>

> Stan,

>

> I have talked to few of my friends and only thing that I can do is

> take them back and call tokico and tell them that I have some issues

> with my struts (they don't know if I have 280zx or not). Only thing

> that I can offer to pay is shipping from me to them and from me back

> to you and that would be more than generous from me anyone else would

> tell you to go and f yourself right? Now you wonder why is that more

> than generous? Well I sold you struts with 2k miles on them (1k miles

> from road trip) for half the price what I paid for them and that was

> more that 11 months ago so I don't really know what you have done to

> them in those 11 months plus they were sold as is. If you are willing

> to go and blame me for this then go ahead and do what you think is the

> best but don't forget they were sold as is. I apologize for

> inconvenience that I have caused to you.

>

> Ivan

 

 

His response:

 

You're joking, right?! Are you ACTUALLY trying to make me the bad

guy here? You sold me parts that were "as is"; but, with the

assumption that they were the RIGHT PARTS!!! It is your problem that

you got ZX struts, and it won't be mine! You sending them back to

Tokico isn't going to get me the CORRECT struts (that you advertised)!

How many miles were on them, and how great a deal it was doesn't

matter, being that they are THE WRONG PART!!!!! And, with only 2k miles

on them, they shouldn't have been all scratched (unless they were

improperly installed). The struts have been sitting in my 'parts

room', as my car has been on a rotisserie since long before I got the

struts from you, as ALL of the Bay Area Hybrid Members know, and can

attest.

Now, your proposal still requires me to pay to ship you struts THAT YOU

SHOULD NOT HAVE SOLD AS 240Z STRUTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. That is NOT

generous. I'll put it out on the site and see how welcome you will be

there after I provide the details of this bad deal. I gave you an

opportunity to step up, and you are choosing to weasel out of it. The

RIGHT thing to do would have been to buy back the INCORRECT struts from

me, and do with them what you see fit. You had a chance, now let the

Hybrid community 'feast' on you.........

 

His last reply:

 

I’ve gotten the ok from the Administrators on the Hybrid site to post about how you handle your responsibilities, just want you to have every opportunity to do the right thing before you get flamed by the mature population on the site…….

 

Now he is calling me imature because he decides that afther 11 months that i am still responsible for those struts hmmm i dont think so to all i know you could have thrown them around, ran over them, your dog might have made it his new toy. To all i know is that i have sent you perfect working struts with clearelly described condition and with nice set of pictures before you even purchased them from me so once again Mr. Stan please look in your PM BOX and feel free to post it up. If you checked on them and you did not like something the day you got them you should have emailed me then. Since you did not that tells me that you checked them out and you liked them becasue if they were shot there would be clear indications of that. Now why would not sell those struts for 240z? I have reciet that is saying 240Z STRUTS on it, i have used in on my car with great results, plus they fit perfect so now if its not too much for me to ask you to pull your head out of your friends butt and actually go and putt those struts in 240z catchridges you might just make baby Jesus beliver too.

 

Well i apologize for long thread but when Garrett280zt gets a chance to get to his computer i am sure that he wont have a problem to confirm my story about everything but even when he does that Mr. Stan will say that we are both liers and that we should both be banned because if it was up to him WW2 would would have not ended the way it did and this land would be Nazi Germany right now. I will continue this story tomorow because its my day off and i will make sure to get Rick (V8ZRACER260Z) to chim in with his experince when i sold him my seats and how much did i go in detail about their condition.

 

Ivan

[240Z2NV]

Part of the ire came from being questioned on why I was modding my suspension, and your assumption that 280ZXT struts would be correct for that application. That's not for you to determine...either issue. There are plenty of true experts in suspension on this site, so I'll pass on your analysis if that's ok. Again, read the thread thoroughly, and your questions should be covered adequately. We discussed OE 240Z struts, and I got 240Z & 280ZXT struts....very simple.

 

If the struts have sat in their original shipping carton for two years, only for me to find out that they were not the correct part as agreed, I would still have reasonable claim....the issue is not how long the struts were or were not used by me (which is ZERO miles, which can be easily proven by photo pictorial of my hybrid project's progress), the issue is that they are NOT BZ 3015 as indicated by Tokico as the correct part for that application.

 

End of story.

[JMortensen]

Here's my $.02, and I would like to point out that I only know what's been said here, which admittedly is not the whole story:

 

I just sold a set of front 240Z struts to a friend who is using them in 280ZX struts as we speak. They will fit just fine. Sectioning doesn't make any sense for tire clearance. All you need to do is cut the old spring perch off and weld the new perch on, sectioning does not come into the picture at all.

 

As an entrepreneur who owns a mail order business I would have to say that there is no circumstance that I can think of in which I would allow any customer to return a product to me after 11 months. Customers have an obligation to look at what they buy and make sure that it is correct or not damaged. Likewise in person to person transactions. My personal opinion is that it is unreasonable to expect Ivan to be responsible for your satisfaction at this point. A month or two, OK. Almost a year later, not OK.

 

As Forrest points out Ivan has no way of knowing what has happened to those parts in the last eleven months.

 

I hate to see this happen here. I've sold and bought parts from a number of people here and had nothing but good results. Of course it hasn't been a year since a number of those sales and purchases took place, so maybe some of those people might be coming back saying that there was something wrong with what I sold to them. I sure hope that doesn't happen...

[Bluto]

If the darn things fit in my 280 I would buy them sight unseen just knowing that Ivan was the person whom you got them from just to end this mess.. barring the whole dog chew toy thing of course.

 

In the short time I have known Ivan I have bought a few z items totallying roughly a few hundred dollars(I think I still even owe him around 70 bucks to boot!) and he even gave me a j pipe with a dsm bov because I may have possibly needed it.

 

The header and intake were passed on to me for far less than they wouldve fetched if he had offered them up online to the highest bidder..

 

He price them according to what he thought was fair.

 

 

When Ivan needed an engine hoist to drop his motor into his car I loaned him my brand new one, still in the box. no questions asked.

 

I never thought twice about his integrity or weather I would ever see my hoist again. I knew I would get it back in the condition it was loaned and I did.

 

 

It seems from the correspondance that Ivan has posted and from your previous statements that you have been more interested in publicly flogging Ivan to meet your own ends rather than to enlighten the hybridz community as you have so loftily pontificated.

 

Sam

 

ps Ivan, I'll have to come up some time to get ya that loot.. hitting the track anymore this year? my z is finally running lol.

[Guest 240zt]

Well if i got a pair of struts (we shall call them strut A) and these struts that i bought were sold to me to fit on my carB then to me strut A is the correct strut for my carB

 

now I want to sell my struts.

carB struts for sale !!!

 

Bob comes along and buys my struts A for his CarB gets them home looks over them and says these are great!

 

and sets them in the back of the garage for 11months.

 

(11 months later)

 

Uhh hey these struts arent for a CarB according to the part number on the strut, i want my money back.

 

 

Now same thing

 

 

 

I go to Best buy and buy a open box item TV.

 

I get it home open up the box and say wow this TV looks great then set it in my back room.

 

(11 months later)

 

Uhh hey this Tv has a 110 volt plug on it i want my money back

 

 

[datsunlover]

Wow.. this is gettng heated.. My $.02? Sorry man, but IMO, it was up to you to determine if the parts were what you wanted when you receved them.. For example;

I bought some carbs/intake and dizzy from a member here (last year) and the day I got them, I spent an hour going over evrything. Looked ok, aside from the plastic collar on the dizzy beeing cracked (shipping.. it happens) and I informed the seller of this, but I told him it wasn't an issue; these things happen. So I sat the carbs and dizzy on a shelf for a few months till I was ready for them. When the day came I needed them, I pulled them out and realized the vac advance on the dizzy was BENT and would most likely be totaly inoperative. Probly from the bump in shipping that caused the cracked plastic piece. Crappy.. OH WELL!!

I supose I could have called the seller and said "Make it right! " but I felt that it was MY fault for not noticing in the first place, and could not start bitching about it NOW 3-4 months after the initial transaction!

 

Really, the usable pair you have is worth some $$$, and you're still further ahead than if you bought all 4 brand new.. just buy the pair you need, instale them along with the used pair, and suck it up.

[johnc]

This may solve the problem...

 

I just got off the phone with Ray at Tokico and he said that the internal valving of the Illumina 240Z front and 280ZX front shock inserts are identical. They carry different parts numbers for inventory accounting reasons only. Internally, the units provide the same level of compression and rebound damping at each setting.

[Mikelly]

I wasn't going to chime in, but Steve and Ian used 280ZX Illuminas on their car until they swapped to Bilstiens...

 

Guys, yea I agree to a point that it was his place to make sure what he bought was what was sold, but come on now... We have to all be reasonable... And furthermore SOME of you have commented incorrectly without even READING the original post completely and understanding the issue... I'm not taking sides on this, but what I'm saying is PUT YOURSELF in the buyer's shoes...

 

And as always BUYER BEWARE...

 

Shame that we have to deal with issues like this... we can always DO AWAY with the forsale section all together and do away with the headache of people being taken advantage of or people feeling they were taken advantage of... I'd like to think we can rise above all this and ALL BE FAIR...

 

Bottom line is we should all know what it is we are buying when we buy it, AND when we sell it. If you represent something as XYZ, then it best DAMNED WELL BE XYZ... To future buyers, TRY TO VERIFY WHAT YOU BOUGHT IMMEDIATELY... dealing with it within a few days is MUCH better than a few months...

 

Mike 8)

[JMortensen]

Bottom line is we should all know what it is we are buying when we buy it, AND when we sell it. If you represent something as XYZ, then it best DAMNED WELL BE XYZ... To future buyers, TRY TO VERIFY WHAT YOU BOUGHT IMMEDIATELY... dealing with it within a few days is MUCH better than a few months...

 

I think it is fair to expect that the parts are correct, but there is also a point at which we all have to realize that we're buying from a person. Not a business, not a Z expert, just a person. With that in mind it is important to CHECK WHAT YOU BOUGHT and make sure it is right.

 

And yes, I would hold AZC or Modern Motorsports or MSA or VB to a higher standard.

 

It increasingly looks as though these were actually the right parts, just with the wrong sticker on them. When I sold my struts to my friend, I didn't check the part numbers on the struts to makes sure they were 240Z struts. I did exactly what Ivan did. I pulled them out of a 240, and assumed they were for a 240. I knew they would fit a ZX, so I sold them to him. I don't think that was unreasonable when Ivan did it either.

 

So the other issue is condition. It doesn't matter a bit if the outside of the strut is scratched. If 2402NV wants new parts he should buy new parts. Going to Tokico to try and warranty the struts is also the wrong thing to do. Look at their warranty: http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/warranty.html It clearly states that it is not transferrable. So that is not a legitimate beef either. So far I can see only that the sticker on the strut had the wrong number, and the shocks were scratched on the body, which is a cosmetic flaw on a part of the car which is not visible.

[Forrest]

Sounds like Ivan is owed an apology.