search Search SEARCH!!!!!

[TONY C]

I have read soooo many posts that are saying "search".

what can't you read? don't you know how to search? that topic has been covered b4. and you should know that..

 

Some of you guys are so into giving people a hard time about the "SEARCH" than actually helping them.

Doesn't make newbs feel welcome.

 

And just because it has been discussed B4 doesn't mean that new light can't be shined on the subject.

 

I thought this site was about "Z" cars.?

Check out the "new posts"

alot or most are not even about our cars.mmmm WHY!

because you waste soo much time bitching that no one wants to start something that might have been discussed 1 time B4

 

I mean really. I would rather read a new thread with some new light shined on it about an old subject than see pics of your girl friend. I got my own woman. I don't need to see yours.

 

this site is getting more "clickish" all the time.

you got the guys that regularly post, and as soon as they see someone post a question that has been asked B4. !SEARCH YOU JERKWAD!!!

 

I mean if you really R a know it all than answer the Q. or post a link to the answer.

 

now that I have your attention. I hope that I have wasted some of your time like you have wasted mine. sux don't it?

 

best thing to do is if you don't have anything nice or helpful to say that don't say anything. the thread will die and it's over.

or just add 75 posts that say !SEARCH! that's helpful.

 

I love this site! there is soo much info here that a simple search will not give you all your options.

I know it's a pain to rehash the same things over and over.

but what really is the reason for this site? It's not for the select few.

It's for everyone and if you don't make the newbs feel comfortable than the site dies with the elders and their geritol

[typhoone]

i've been told to SEARCH before, and i admit that it did piss me off, but i found out alot of information doing the searches. it does piss people off, and run some of them off, but if they are willing to quit after being simply told to search i doubt they were very serious about any ideas or plans they had.

[tfreer85]

You know not to be a smartass but if you would have properly used the search function you would have found other posts complaining about people telling people to search. Now, there are ways for you to ignore or block threads or topics you don't like. We have a NON-tech section for a REASON, if you don't like the NON-tech section STAY away from it, pretty simple logic. The easiest way to have someone not tell you to search REFERENCE something, another link, another thread, another quote from a book, etc. its aggravating when people take no time what-so-ever to do any of the leg work themselves. If the person isn't willing to search for an hour, do you really think they have what it takes to complete an engine swap, brake upgrades, or anything else relating to the often times simple question with complicated responses? I think not...

 

Hybridz isn't for everyone as evident to why it was created because the classic Z-car guys couldn't handle the lack of purity. Hybridz has strict RULE and GUIDELINES which are heavily enforced for good reason, I suggest you read them if you haven't already as they are pertinent to many of your complaints as to why many of the people act the way they do towards "newbs." Take care best of luck and when you've been around longer, you'll realize its not a personal attack telling people to search, just more of a push for the person to learn from those ELDERs who came before them.

 

Tyson

 

P.S. I know its popular to abbreviate like "B4", but please refrain from doing so. Not only will it help keep Hybridz from being "clickish" it all also show you've read the rules and guidelines yourself for the forum.

[aziza z]

I've noticed this "search search search" trend too. seem like there are some people who, it seems like, just wait for the kind of opportunities to post up a search reply.

 

also it doesn't help that when people start a thread and they title it something ridiculous ("look at what i did" or "wow this is cool"), so when you come to search for the same topic it doesn't appear.

[Pop N Wood]

You obviously don't use the search function much.

 

It is not so much answering the same question over again. It is sifting through the thousands of nonsense threads to get to the good ones.

 

I agree with treating the new people with respect. Telling someone to search should not be done in a condescending manner.

 

but a lot of times telling someone to search is doing them a favor. If the people haven't read the FAQ's then they are simply not going to get a complete answer.

[COZY Z COLE]

OK TONY C, You be the Admin and respond to this new member's thread...http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125752

 

Read the only sticky in this sub forum that he posted in, then there is the FAQ forum, then there is the stickies in the Turbo sub forum. The list goes on and on....

He's 19 with no car and lives in an apt.

 

 

LARRY

[Warren]

Heres a good example of why people are told to search so much on here...

 

Just yesterday, this post comes along from a new member about a coolant temp sensor http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125728 . It was answered with the information requested, or at least a point in the right direction and the member was NICELY asked to use the search function.

 

Then today, this pops up...http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125756 . A simple search would have answered both questions without adding more information for the search engine to sift through when someone DOES use the search feature.

 

It's true that sometimes the search feature gives ALOT of information that isn't really relevant, but if the user will simply refine the search parameters by using the Advanced Search feature and specifying where to look for the information, the answers get alot more relevant. But since they won't use the Search feature to begin with, I guess an Advanced Search is out of the question.

 

I too get tired of seeing people being told to search, and I get tired of the superfulous information being interjected between relevant, and informative posts, but simply following the instructions that are often refered to when someone is being asked to search first (meaning read #2 in the posting guidelines) is really all that is being asked.

[woldson]

Hey i like the tool shed. It lets me know what NOT to post. It also can be funny at times. Besides, how many posts are their in a day? Their never seems to be to many tool shed posts on a daily basis, i know cuse i check!LOL

[johnc]

The BIG reason the admins and moderators ask people to search and dump messages into the Tool Shed is:

 

To make the search result more meaningful!

 

We get complaints all the time about how the search results are too big, too many threads to read, duplicate threads, etc. We are being hard assed about searching because you folks have asked us to solve those problems. Eliminating duplicate posts, requireing meaningful thread titles, remiding members to search before posting, and Tool Shedding posts are all part of our efforts to clean up the search results.

 

There is 8 years of posts on this site! All are available through the search function. And, like any gold mine, you've got to sift through some dirt to find the nugget. Just posting a question because you don't want to get your hands dirty is just lazy.

[TONY C]

perfect. I knew when I started this that I would get alot of flack for it.

That is OK. I can handle it.

Just for the record.

I am not aggrevated because someone told me to "SEARCH".

This hasn't happened to me, YET.

I am a reader and have no problem using the search feature on this forum and I agree that it works very well.

 

In no way could I be an Admin. I am not patient enough for that.

 

I am on a few other forums. mostly auto related.

HybridZ.org has the best info out there. Hands down.

 

what I have seen tho. sometimes people are too course to the newbs. I mean, they are going to get it soon. And hopefully, 1 day, some of them will come up with some crazy off the wall, out of the box trix that will bring our rides to the next level. And if we shine them off by being a dick, and not being helpful to them they will probably take the info/ideas that they have come up with somewhere else. I don't want that. sometimes NOT knowing all the info is what leads to something new and Hot.

I can speek from experiance on this, that I have made a few mods on my ride that I have not seen anywhere else. However I have not posted any info about them because I feel that sometimes this site seems to "know it all". So I post it elsewhere. Where I feel that people are more kind to All the members. Not just a select crew.

If we were at a car show and someone comes up to you and asks about something on your ride and you blurt out "SEARCH". Do you really think that you will get anything positive from them in the future? NO. and when they do figure it out or, God forbid, improve on something. They will not share it with you. Same thing here. This is the Mother of all Z car shows. Why not treat people like they are standing rite in front of you and not on the other end of a cable modum.

Have you ever read a book that made you start reading it all over again after you finished. Same thing here. And if you don't want to read it again. Don't. Same thing here.

All I am saying is that we want and need new members because no matter what you think, it has not all been done B4. Reading info from the same people gets boring and we will not get any new people giving info if we shine them off.

[johnc]

what I have seen tho. sometimes people are too course to the newbs.

 

I agree. When you post a question on a forum like this you leave yourself open to the the first responder. That could be an easy-going, no care in the world member or it could be a "...just got kicked in the nuts again at work..." admin who's short fuse is already burning.

 

You play the game, you take your chances. That's life.

[Poundz9oh9]

In my experience... I've had to only ask a few questions when doing my ENTIRE swap ... this is due to the search function.

 

Alot of the newer people are spoon fed answers on other boards then bring that dependency on over here. Don't get me wrong, I've done it before and was told to search ... guess what ... after searching, I found the answer I was looking for. I haven't been here the longest, but I do get irritated when I see the board cluttered with questions that have been answered over and over again. If that person had searched, then there wouldn't have been a need for the new question (90% of the time).

 

Now, "shedding new light" on a thread is fine, but if the new question is something that had not been discussed before and was definitively answered, there's no reason why the person should have even asked the question to begin with. If there is still a lingering question about something I HIGHLY doubt the old "do a search" would even be whipped out. From what I have seen, it will be discussed and an opinion/solution will be formed, thus eliminating the need for the question to be asked again until something unresolved comes up......

 

Just my thoughts, get pissy all you want at me, but the "do a search" comments will be here to stay until people start doing it .....

 

Go HybridZ !!! Still the best technical site I've EVER seen on the internet.

[RTz]

If we were at a car show and someone comes up to you and asks about something on your ride and you blurt out "SEARCH".

 

I do

 

OK seriously, you have some valid points but, like JohnC said, its part of life. If you're expecting to get along with everyone, you're expectations might need some amending. I believe one of HZ's rules is 'thick skin'... its a good rule.

 

Why not treat people like they are standing rite in front of you and not on the other end of a cable modum.

 

That goes both way's... If *I* say something that pisses you off, then it would be mistake to judge the entire group. This sort of thing happens all the time... somebody gets bent over a couple of 'flagrant members' and all of a sudden the whole group 'is to blame'.

[JMortensen]

A couple of points:

 

1. The internet is not conversational. It is not like walking up to someone in a face to face interaction and asking them a question. For a proper answer sometimes A LOT of time and effort needs to be put into the response. To ask the same question a hundred times and expect anyone to type out a lengthy, well thought out, thorough response is inconsiderate at best. But what happens a lot of times is that people who are guessing start answering with hearsay and then the issue becomes more muddled, leading to the whole "you can't believe anything you read on the internet" attitude. If you need an example just look up "OS Giken" and see some of the old threads from about 3-4 years ago. Ridiculously wrong information kept coming up over and over and over. That kind of thing does nobody any good. If the person who wanted to know about them searched first and found only good threads, the issue would be a lot clearer.

 

2. As has been said, the reason we tell people to search is because we want to make the search work better. It is an attempt to streamline the database, not an attempt to demean the person being told to search.

 

3. Go hang around at some sites who don't moderate so thoroughly and you'll see that most threads just end up in a pissing match, and the flame wars for the most part dominate the forum. Ours is not like that, and we don't want it to be. There are of course different interpretations of what is an appropriate level of moderation. We follow strict guidelines here, and that works. There is always the option to start your own forum if our level of moderation is too severe, and no one else's forum suits your tastes. And if it turns out really good, I'll sign up there too! Competition between forums will separate the wheat from the chaff for different users. I think our level of moderation frustrates the lazy and attracts the "outside the box" thinkers. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

4. The idea that Hybrid Z "knows it all" is not correct, and somewhat insulting. We would be the first to admit we don't know everything, and this site exists to keep pushing the boundaries of Z car performance. There are other sites dedicated to original restoration where questions always have a "right" answer. This is not one. If you have something truly innovative to add, we would really like to see it and learn from you. But the threads that we respond to by asking the poster to search should not be the ones with something to add; they should be the ones asking repetitive questions. For instance, I would hope that we would not tell the guy who is talking about a new aerodynamic device to search. On the other hand, the guy who asks "Will an R180 stand up behind my V8?" or "How hard/expensive is a V8 swap?" or "What's the biggest wheels that will fit under stock fenders?" or "What brake upgrades are available for Z's?" is not likely to provide a new innovation. If he has a new innovation he certainly isn't stating it very well.

[BRAAP]

When a question or idea is posted that either contains, or can turn into the sharing of information, ideas, concepts, that are new and radical, fresh, hot, etc, the thread will be left alone and allowed to run its course. With our years of being members here on HybridZ, (most of the admins have been here since the forum started), we do our best in discerning whether or not a particular thread does have, or has the potential to offer any value, whether it expands on existing ideas and concepts, or is new in uncharted territory or not, and that it follows within the HybridZ mission statement, which I’m sure every member has read, along with the rules and guidelines. What gets tossed in the shed are the redundant, “will the stock diff hold up to a V-8?", or “help me, my wipers quit working, what to look for?” type questions and those will continue to get thrown in the shed. As has been stated in many other tossed threads, we are not going to spoon feed people information because they don’t want to take the time to spend a few minutes to a few hours searching and researching the information that the rest of us spent months and years “doing” and subsequently writing about here on these pages for others to learn from and expand on for free. This is a forum dedicated to extreme performance Z cars, not so much how to diagnose/maintain/restore a 240 to OE specs. There are other forums for that.

 

Yes, there are more and more new posts being tossed in the shed. The reason is that HybridZ is now plugged “directly” into the Google search engine, (our sponsor, i.e. the ads we now see), and now when any Joe Blow car guy asks Google about something related to "V-8’s", "RB26", "700R4", "water temp sensor", etc, Hybridz will show up in their WWW searches. As such, we have been experiencing an influx of newbies, some that don’t even own Z cars, others that think this is a Camaro Z-28 or iroc-Z forum. One guy thought it was a V-8 Jeep forum! My point is, with a heavier influx of incoming traffic, you are going to see more posts being tossed and due to where these newbies are coming from, a higher percentage of the newbies are going to be asked to search.

 

 

Now if we did allow all those redundant questions to go on without cleaning house, just how many MORE useless posts do you think the rest of us, that are willing to search, would have to sift through to get the information we are looking for? People complain about bout how much useless info is in their search queries now! Just think how much more crap you’d have to sift through if we didn’t run such a tight ship?

 

 

 

…….

 

P.S. I know its popular to abbreviate like "B4", but please refrain from doing so. Not only will it help keep Hybridz from being "clickish" it all also show you've read the rules and guidelines yourself for the forum.

 

 

... and other IM style typing in Tony C’s posts… As was politely stated please refrain from IM posting as spelled out in #5 of the guidelines. Thank you.

 

 

I've noticed this "search search search" trend too. seem like there are some people who, it seems like, just wait for the kind of opportunities to post up a search reply.

 

Yeup, but only for those too lazy to use the search feature before they post simple common questions.

 

also it doesn't help that when people start a thread and they title it something ridiculous ("look at what i did" or "wow this is cool"), so when you come to search for the same topic it doesn't appear.

 

 

I agree. Some of the titles are ridiculous and by title alone probably should be tossed in the shed, especially being as we are asked in the rules and guidelines #3, to post a topic title that is relevant to the thread. Well, due to the fact that some of those badly titled threads have some good info or are relevant HybridZ questions, or some are just entertaining and posted in the non tech forum where they belong, those threads are left alone. As was pointed out a few posts up, the advanced search feature allows custom searching for narrowing down specific searches. Also, the search feature by default, searches entire threads, not just the title, unless you tell it to look at just the titles only. Due to the problem of non specific thread titles, I don’t recommend allowing the search engine to read "titles only" in your searches.

 

To sum up. HybridZ is what it is, and will remain THE Z car tech resource for all things extreme performance related. Being at the level we are, things wont always be "peaches and cream", there will be aspects that wont please all the people, that is just the way it is. As Ron Tyler put it, a thick skin is a good thing for all HybridZ members. Also, keep in mind that this site is maintained on many levels behind the scenes so that it can run 24-7 for all of us to enjoy and the admins are NOT getting paid to clean house and play babysitter.

 

[Mikelly]

We will never make everyone happy. Here's a comment I'll make right here and now...

 

WE COULD BE WARM AND FUZZY. We COULD BE MORE POLITE.

 

Sometimes WE DON'T have time. And for the record, I'd be happy, more than happy to say exactly everything I've ever typed, in a face to face environment with anyone on this board, previously banned or otherwise.

 

I agree 110% that new members probably hate asking/ posting questions... But as has been posted by others, we're trying to help evolve new users. It's QUICKER for them, less painful for the readers, and a win/win/win for all involved... We can try and be nice, while toolshedding a thread, but it won't work... It never does...

 

Here's a thought... Go out, get an ISP and a URL, start a site, and show us how YOU'D do it...

 

I hear Mikellysux.com is available...

 

Oh, And no more "texting", MMMKay?

 

Mike

[TONY C]

I knew that there were some answers.

and I hope no one is pissed at me for starting this.

I just wanted to shed some light on this.

I totally understand all the coments and I hope some of the newbs that are looking around find this thread. Maybe it will keep them from wasting our time, or leaving before they become valuable members.

 

NO DOUBT. this the best forum on the net! Just so happens to be about "Z" cars. that makes me happy.

 

Everyone have a great day.

peace.

tc.

[buZy]

The search function is truly awesome on HybridZ.

 

30 plus years of zcar knowledge at your fingertips! The internet rocks!

[naviathan]

A little interjection here.

 

Will this thread change anything? No...

Was there any real point to bringing up something that has already been complained about numerous times? No...

Is anything being done to help with the problem? Yes...

 

The admins here on hybridz.org are actively sifting through the massive numbers of posts we get daily. They decide which ones are relevant and which ones are garbage and distribute as necessary. I know about a year or so back one of the admins went extensive on the archives to try and clean up the forums for better searching. It's a long and going process that, unfortunately with the incoming amount of garbage out weighing the ability to sort it the problem won't get better quickly. Maybe we need to set one person aside in each sub forum with admin rights to go through the archives in detail and clean them. That would be their only goal and let the rest of the admins monitor the incoming garbage. Just a thought. If you need help let me know.

[240zV8]

I know it would take some time and effort, but I think when someone registers for the site, a page should pop up with all the faq's about each section. interested in doing a v8 swap? buy the JTR manual here. and so on.

 

I was told to search at first, but it wasn't like people attacked me about it, they just said the site has a ton of info that will help. And after a search I had no problem coming back and asking questions about things I found. So as long as people go about it like that and encourage u to search instead of attacking u to do it, it's all good.

 

I think this stuff happens on every forum. I joined a forum for my Dodge cummins and they have it setup so it's g-rated, no swearing or attacking others etc... and it works really well because the internet seems to bring out the inner beast in people, especially the comments on youtube, lol. I got a infraction for saying i'd rather be cummin than strokin (alittle diesel joke), but hey it keeps things down to business and people helpful. Thats why i'm gonna put a cat diesel in a Z so we'll have somthing new and confusing to talk about, lol