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johnc

Politics and Religion - Banned

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Discussions of the above topics are now banned on this site. The moderators and admins have spent a couple weeks debating this and the concensus is that the threads generally degrade into name calling. We don't want that on this site.

 

We discussed a couple alternatives but ultimately we couldn't come up with a way to allow these topics on this site and prevent some of the issues we've seen recently. And, BTW, this is a car site anyway.

 

From this point forward, take these discussions elsewhere. Any posts that are political or religious in nature will be summarily deleted.

 

I'm going to close all the recent threads (most mine...) that are political or religious in nature.

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Sure we have disagreements and there are a few whose canned response to any situation can be predicted every time. I still felt the discussions were worth it and I can say that some points that have been brought up (sometimes by those I disagree with most) have led me to do searches on the internet and learn more about whatever subject we were discussing at the time. Other times the argument quickly degenerated into name calling and was totally pointless. I think the topics should be allowed, but the moderation level should be upped a bit. It's not like you aren't following all these threads anyway, right John?

 

Bottom line for me is this is the internet and if you don't want to read it you don't have to read it. Nobody should get in such a tissy that the whole subject matter has to be shut down. But that's just my opinion.

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Doesn't matter to me, I participate in the technical knowledge here. The same thing precipitated at MercedesShop forums as well, where I did take part in the politics. With some people not able to remain civil, the ban was imposed and remains. Doesn't matter, as once again, it's the technical material that keeps me.

 

I've found some good forums for the political discussion, I don't need any more.

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I'm with Jmortensen. I thought the debats were great during the election, and well I've seen name calling and hissy fits over car related subjects. I can understand though if politics and religion become a chore to moderate more so than tech. subjects, but I love to talk politics and religion personally.

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First of all I'd like to send praise to the Z Car God....wait that falls under religion. *Think whats the next best political move here for me... butt kissing....no...hmmm this ones a tuffy...* jk jk.

 

I agree with Jmortensen as well, though I have never commented on the topics I do enjoy hearing peoples differening opinions. I feel that if we are to comment on the political/religious topics that we should realize and understand that you are opening yourself up for a poking by anybody. However, I do believe that once the topic goes sour i.e. name calling, etc. that the post should either be locked or deleted. We are all adults (some of us newer than others) and we should act like adults. However, for the mods if is or has become too time consuming or is too much of a hassle to regulate then you should continue with the current policy that is being enforced.

 

Tyson

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Personally, I never get involved in those types of subject discussions on this site (or almost anywhere). In fact, if the thread title suggests that the thread is political or religious in nature, I won't even open it up. That's not what I come here for. I only opened this thread becuase it suggested I'm not alone it my attitude.

 

That being said, I'm not against those types of discussions on HybridZ. I know that there are some well educated and thoughtful people here who I have respect for. I know others feel the same and may want to debate these types of subjects with folks they respect. HybridZ is an automotive based forum, but like it or not, it has become an online family to many members, and families tend to want to discuss subjects that have impact on their lives. A little spirited debate can be pretty educational. As long as people converse in a respectful manner, and those subjects are contained in their own forum and don't clutter up the rest of the site, it's cool by me.

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I personally think this was long overdue. While I greatly enjoy political debates, I also think that certain things have there own place. The site is called HybridZ, which for me is a place to unwind and discuss tech or fun issues related to our common hobby and escape from the more stressful aspects of life (virtual sanctuary). There are other sites for political debates and there are much better political news sources than HybridZ.

I think we should stick to what we do best on this site. I vote to keep the “realities†of everyone’s political and religious perspectives/biases separate from this nice technically oriented and fun Z site.

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Personally, it really doesn't bother me either way. I welcomed the change that prevented non-technical issues from counting against users post count, but it doesn't bother me to have just about anything posted here. If I'm not interested, I won't read it. Actually I like reading the posts where people get upset and start name calling. I find it entertaining in a sick sorta way:twisted:.

 

I think it really boils down to maintaining all the data and moderating the posts. If you have the storage space and enough people willing to moderate, then why not allow it.

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An old man told me once, that on the average, the more you know about someone, the less your going to like him/her. You can be great friends at arms length and discuss technical issues for years, but things change, especially when you touch on religion and politics, cause it's kind of like kicking somebodys dog.

 

With that said, I don't think I'll miss it one bit cause it seemed like every thread, ended up in the dumpster cause you can, and do, say things in type that you won't say in person. Those subjects have been the source of crusades, war, hatred, genocide, fights, arguments and the like for centuries and it won't stop, even on Hybridz.

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It was hard for me to avoid the politics and religion threads when it appeared half the site was being devoted to this past time...My avoidance of these topics saved you folks on how insanely radical I am.......not for the fainthearted.......It is best to remove these topics.....but every once in awhile there are some extraordinary events like 911 that should deserve some attention and it appeared the whole country was finally in agrement on that ! I am on this site for some hardcore Datsun discourse and relaxation to escape the world's nonesense. I would regret some Datsun knowlegeable member signing off for good over some political or religious nonesense.

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I agree with trouble.. it seams there is no pleasing all the people all the time.. (go figure.. :lol: ) and people WILL get offended/upset no mater how good the moderation. Think about it; we will tolerate differing tastes/opinions when it comes to cars, work, ect.. Thats the reason I come to this place. IMO, Political and religious discusions, and individuals beliefs, are ussually too close to peoples hearts.. Those areas/topics are not to be wanderd into by someone with an opposing view, because there won't be the same amount of tollerance we normaly have... I think it's just human nature.. the things we believe in the most, we will fight to the death to uphold and defend. Hell.. people blow themselves up and fly planes into buildings for these reasons. Says something about how strong a belief system can be, right OR wrong...

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These comments are telling, and rest assured, the staff are reading them. We have lost members over these controversial topics. I've been part of the cause of this with my "Kill them all, and let god sort them out" attitude, which is just an opinion from someone who is to near the flame.

 

I've been called a bomb throwing Irish terrorist (because of my last name, funny that I've never been to Ireland), compared to Hitler, Satan, BinLaddin, and Hussein over this stuff, and have had public and private back and forths with members over this STUFF that is our current climate in our world. All because of text. Text from a keyboard, and an opinion of one. Unfortunately, as an adminsitrator, I guess I should have been more subdued and managed the threads, not jumping in or contributing a view or opinion. That flame I mention above again... It gets hot sometimes...

 

The sad reality is that we're all stressed out over the news. It is everywhere we go. Media is everywhere and the horrors of war and terror are inescapable more now than at any time in our worlds history because of this exposure to the media in all forms. Right, wrong, or whatever, our collective sensetivities are hightened and our skin much thinner, even here on HybridZ, than any time I can remember.

 

It truly pains me to think that I've contributed to these divisions, and I know that my opinion and commentary on these topics has turned some against anything I'll ever type again. I've been confronted over my ability to fairly administer or moderate here because of those back and forths, So much so, that I put it to a "tribal vote" in the admin forum and asked Dan to do what he thought was necessary if I indeed overstepped my bounds.

 

I don't have the answers to how we get past this issue or the division of our members over these issues. But I personally feel that posting these religious and political topics isn't going to speed the recovery or healing process anytime soon. We kicked around the idea of a Politics and Religion Forum Where John C. could moderate the discussions with an iron fist, and I was actually for that because John posts some of the most insitefull information you can find on the arguement from the right, and there are equally talented researchers who post stuff from the left. These particular links are the substance of making us think from different points of view, and will be missed by many. But they won't aid in making us well again anytime soon.

 

So lets get back to cool cars, creative designs, and progress towards a cohesive and united direction, Building FAST DATSUNS.

 

"A man forever looking over his shoulder will never live his future".

 

Mike

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Guest Aaron

Either way, does not matter to me. I have personally always respected the maturity of the members here to handle themselves well.

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Mikelly, you or anyone else need not apologize for your viewpoints and discussions, whether heated or not, I was not offended, merely enlightened by right and left views of the same subject whether I agreed with the left or not. Time is the healer of all wounds.

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Wouldn't it be comical if this thread degraded into a heated political/opinion debate? :toetap05::icon52::twisted::-D

 

Speaking as a John Q. Member, I am also opposed to political/religious/personal preference discussions. Like it has been stated above, there are plenty of other places on the WWW to get your fix. Keep this an automotive tech. site (and the wierd crap that Alex posts :shock: )...

 

Speaking as a Moderator, some of these discussions are actually very interesting, and many of the opinions are very thought provoking, but when the thread goes south, it becomes a shame to remove it. Parsing out the bad comments are sometimes difficult because the arguments backing them up are sometimes intergral to the thread, but are stated in anger, heat of the moment etc......easier to just keep the site about cars......

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Actually this was the only site I bothered to open up any political discussions on because the membership is generally a higher class and more civil than some other places I lurk. I think we can thank our moderators for that. Can you imagine what these discussions would be like on zcar.com? Bwah Hah! (Hell, I even laugh at the technical posts over there!)

 

John I'll miss your research and Mike I'll reload for ya any day.

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Actually Catman there was a discussion like that on zcar.com about Ford being "Gay cars" that turned into the funniest thread I had ever read. Although I love religious and political debate, I think dr. hunt is right. I'm personally a thick skinned person who is very hard to offend. But others are more sensitive than some, and really can't deal with heated/emotional debates. Also Dr. hunt made a great point about people typing things they would never say to person's face. Perhaps those who want to discuss these topics should end their post with first and last name, and a picture :-)

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Guest JAMIE T

I rarely even look at the non-tech forum. I could care less what is discussed here.

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Perhaps those who want to discuss these topics should end their post with first and last name, and a picture :-)

 

What a novel thought.

 

 

 

Banning certain topics because they stir up emotions or are a challenge to moderate is the easy choice.

 

In my humble opinion, the banning will devalue this wonderful site.

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Guest Phil1934

I always looked at it like a cocktail party discussion. Nice to hear opposing points of view and I also enjoyed the web site references to the subject at hand, particularly when the subject got deep or obscure. I'm still a couple months from finishing the nephew's Z. Hopefully by the SE Drags, but I'm off for Reynolds, GA today as the old prewar cars and FEDs are having at it. (The 1934 in my sig refers to my other unfinished project)

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I at first voted to ban the political/religious topics, but quickly changed my mind to let Johnc (who always thinks before he types, and I dare say never says anything he regrets) be the moderator in a politics and religion forum. But that was not a vote to the winning side, no big deal.

 

I certainly am in agreement with katman:

Actually this was the only site I bothered to open up any political discussions on because the membership is generally a higher class and more civil than some other places I lurk.

 

I too will miss johnc's research as well as the ability to see other's points of view on these topics.

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I actually agree with what Mikelly said (imagine that!)... I too have been part of the "heat", and have caught myself saying things that are "out of bounds". And even though I disagree with JohnC's philosophy, I learned a bit from his interesting and thought provoking research. I guess politics/religion is just too intense sometimes....maybe we should just stick to fast datsuns like Mike said. But- who knows?

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This is a shame. John, do you have somewhere else you post (or will you) that I can read?

 

If the issue was still up for debate, I'd vote for heavy moderation of non-constructive posts the better. (Actually, I wouldn't mind heavy moderation of non-constructive posts in EVERY forum.)

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