A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)

[Zetsaz]

Small progress this weekend despite all the smoke.

Fitted the single piece outter seal. Some small things I missed arrived from home and I put the seal on the filler neck as well. Can't seem to get the upper edge of either of the hatch seals to seat properly. Soooo frustrating, but it's closer than before. 

My turn signals are intermittent right now. Might be the flasher or my hazard switch is being finicky. Going to take apart all of it and maybe talk to... Dave Williams? Who does the rebuilds and headlight relay upgrades. Lives about a half hour from where I am. 

 

Lastly, I bought the sound deadening I need. Last big purchase for right now will probably be the bumpers. Need to check on backorders.

[Zetsaz]

Exciting things will be happening soon... But probably not until this weekend. 

 

I was tempted to leave the box closed and just caption this post "WHAT'S IN THE BOOOOX???" but the effect isn't there if people haven't seen Se7en with Brad Pitt haha

[Zetsaz]

So close... So tired... Will post up some pictures when I'm mostly done and the seats are ready to go back in. Doors are already so much better, but hopefully it also helps with the large flat areas that Lizard Skin didn't quite do enough for

[Ironhead]

On 9/17/2020 at 2:57 PM, Zetsaz said:

Exciting things will be happening soon... But probably not until this weekend. 

 

I was tempted to leave the box closed and just caption this post "WHAT'S IN THE BOOOOX???" but the effect isn't there if people haven't seen Se7en with Brad Pitt haha

 

It's funny, after I bought my car and was stripping it down, I found some PO had put Dynamat on both sides of the trans tunnel.  That stuff was so hard to remove, I find myself scared to use it.

[Zetsaz]

5 hours ago, Ironhead said:

 

It's funny, after I bought my car and was stripping it down, I found some PO had put Dynamat on both sides of the trans tunnel.  That stuff was so hard to remove, I find myself scared to use it.

 

I'm sure it's about as difficult to remove as the original deading tar (?) based stuff that came with it stock. My car is very much a street/cruiser car. As much as I've cut weight in heavy dated tech in some areas like the emissions and original heater core/fan, I'm not concerned about every last pound. 

I bought the "mega pak" to be able to do everything. Shipping weight was about 30 lbs so I'm assuming between this and the dry weight of the Lizard Skin I used, I'm not adding more than about 45-50 lbs of sound deadening/heat control. That is MORE than offset by losing the 280z bumpers and bumper shocks, vintage air will be lighter than just the original fan, original tar sound deadening is all gone, emissions stuff is all gone, hvac vacuum control stuff and solenoids are gone, original engine harness is way heavier thanks to the AFM and some other bits... it's a lot. 

I'm expecting about 150-200 lbs net loss in weight or more from stock. Will never get down to early 240z weight, but I'm okay with that in the sturdier 280 chassis with stronger parts than the 240z came with. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Zetsaz

[jpndave]

That original deadening is pretty nasty. How much Lizardskin did you put on? You've got me rethinking my car on soundproofing. My JK is really nice but it has a fair amount of both sound control and the ceramic Lizardskin to the tune of about 10 gallons inside and out. I assume you are talking about the tinny/rattling sound when the doors close vs a Mercedes "thunk"? 

[jpndave]

OK so my OCD kicked in LOL.

 

Jeep JK Unlimited - inside and out with 4, tailgate, doors no top ~ 204 (204/10 gallons = 20.4sq ft to the gallon) 

 

240Z - inside and out 2 doors, hatch, roof & hood. ~ 147 (147/20.4 = 7.2 gallons)

 

So educated guess the Z would need 7.2 gallons of SC/Ceramic Lizardskin combined to get the same deadening. I layed it down pretty thick on that Jeep. I think you are headed in the right direction with the Dynamat. 

 

Any news on the paint? 

[Zetsaz]

32 minutes ago, jpndave said:

OK so my OCD kicked in LOL.

 

Jeep JK Unlimited - inside and out with 4, tailgate, doors no top ~ 204 (204/10 gallons = 20.4sq ft to the gallon) 

 

240Z - inside and out 2 doors, hatch, roof & hood. ~ 147 (147/20.4 = 7.2 gallons)

 

So educated guess the Z would need 7.2 gallons of SC/Ceramic Lizardskin combined to get the same deadening. I layed it down pretty thick on that Jeep. I think you are headed in the right direction with the Dynamat. 

 

Any news on the paint? 

 

Looks like my last response didn't post from my phone... I think I used either 1 gallon of each or 2 gallons of each. Can't remember which bucket I bought, but I remember when I was first applying it and talked to you about dry weight I concluded the lizard skin wasn't more than about 20 lbs in total.

 

Having compared both now, Lizard skin was much easier to apply and probably took less time (not counting dry/cure time). If you're done the math then that actually sounds about right. I bought the "mega pak" which has about 96 square feet and it won't fully cover the interior, though it does get MOST of it which is more than you need for adequate deadening. If I were to do things again, I'd probably just use adequate coverage of the ceramic coat for full coverage against heat everwhere, then use Dynamat in all the large flat panels and tucked in key areas for the sound deadening. more coverage depending on how concerned you are about sound/weight ratio.

Paint update for everyone else: mentioned to Dave yesterday that I noticed some tiny bubbling in the paint. Painter called me back a few hours after I sent him the same pic I sent you. He said it's too hard to tell how deep the source is from just the pics, so he'd have to see in person to properly advise, but admitted that ultimately the prep and spray was his responsibility and we'd see what can be done. I've inspected more of the car and a lot of the spots that looked like they were bubbling (so tiny I they don't even show up in pictures), were probably just off gassing solvents in the clear coat. I wiped down some of the areas and they actually left tiny streaks, but I could get the dots to go away even with just tiny wipes over them with my bare finger. That rear corner by the original antenna location is the only spot that has noticeable bubbling that's potentially deeper. I'm going to wash and wipe down the car later today to get a better idea of where it's happening.

In the meantime, I was already scheduled at an exhaust shop down the hill from me, and a resonator (glasspack) is being installed in the center of the car right now which will make cruising even more comfortable. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Zetsaz

[Zetsaz]

Got on a one track mind and forgot to get more pics of the dynamat. I'll get some later on.

Between that and the resonator, the car is so much more enjoyable to drive. Only downside is now I can't tell if it's slower because of a slightly more restricted exhaust, or if it's a placebo effect and only felt faster due to noise before haha.

 

Only the rear corner where the original antenna used to be has some bubbling right now. I'm hoping it goes away, but fortunately most everywhere else that I thought was bubbling only looks like a tiny, needle point sized, "dent" in the clear and I should be able to buff things nicely. Hopefully, at worst, the bubbling I'm still seeing in the rear corner is something I can wet sand and fix with touchup, but at least now I know it's just a small area that might need to be blended in and I fortunately won't need to respray the whole exterior.  Any other areas that may potentially be concern I'm honestly just going to let go. By the time it becomes even slightly noticeable I'll probably be wanting to color match some carbon panels or something else. 

 

Currently dealing with a short on my right turn signal. The wire on the switch has corroded near the original soldering. Ordering new soldering stuff now to hopefully repair it for good. It's amazing how many small things keep coming up now that I'm driving it regularly. I'm almost grateful for current circumstances allowing me to work on it more and really get things to the point where it could be usable as a daily. 

[Zetsaz]

Looking for some feedback on what to prioritize next. Have a handful of "big ticket" items that need to be done before power is ever a concern. I can probably do 2-3 of these at once with the money I have set aside, but can't do all of them for another few months due to limited budget and my job's extra stipend money not usually coming in until November. These are listed in no particular order

-Cabin side Vintage Air parts: This would allow me to finish up everything on the dash side and not pull things anymore, as well as get a bit of heating for the nicer days I might drive in the winter (nearly no snow in the PNW, so I'm not worried about salt and corrosion on days it doesn't rain)

-Bumpers and rear speaker bracket: Would allow me to properly put together the interior plastic panels for the last time and the exterior would be complete (small paint bubbling issue that will be repaired for me if it's deeper than clear coat aside). Technically this is more to tidy things up making the car look "finished" and less for anything functional I need.

-Rear (and maybe front) control arms: highest priority here is correcting the toe-in at the rear wheels to prevent wear. Both front and rear have slightly more camber than I want, but it's pretty close and less of a concern than the toe.

-Front and rear strut bars: I've read from multiple people (with way more experience building stuff than I do, and more racing experience) that the front is especially helpful and can improve front traction dramatically.

-CV axles (or just U joint replacement): Rear U Joints are making a lot of noise on shifts right now and on bumps. Cruising is smooth. Not sure if I want to just replace them, or go straight to CV axles.

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Zetsaz

[rossman]

1) U-joints - Safety first, a completely failed one might ruin your day and it will improve the driving experience

2) Vintage Air - Comfort is important and you will love climate control

3) Rear Control Arms - Will save you money in tires  I went with T3

4) Strut bars - I love the look of my Cusco front strut bar.  On the rear I have a semi-custom unit I picked up years ago on HZ

5) Bumpers & Speaker brackets - Prioritize brackets 1st if your speakers are loose, just sitting in the hatch due to safety concerns

[Zetsaz]

45 minutes ago, rossman said:

1) U-joints - Safety first, a completely failed one might ruin your day and it will improve the driving experience

2) Vintage Air - Comfort is important and you will love climate control

3) Rear Control Arms - Will save you money in tires  I went with T3

4) Strut bars - I love the look of my Cusco front strut bar.  On the rear I have a semi-custom unit I picked up years ago on HZ

5) Bumpers & Speaker brackets - Prioritize brackets 1st if your speakers are loose, just sitting in the hatch due to safety concerns

 

Appreciate the input! The big question with the U joints is, do I just replace them with more heavy duty new U joints, or spend the big $$$ on CV axles? I'm not running much power, but I care more about a smooth and reliable ride.

 

EDIT: For the price of good CV axles that don't require modding or other mixing and matching, I can probably get new U joints, the interior vintage air stuff, and control arms which is making me rethink some things. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Zetsaz

[jpndave]

U-joints are super cheap like $10 ea. Pretty easy to swap. If/when you upgrade go CV/Rezappa joints for sure. I would just replace what's there if they need it and later go CV. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by jpndave

[NewZed]

1 hour ago, Zetsaz said:

-CV axles (or just U joint replacement): Rear U Joints are making a lot of noise on shifts right now and on bumps. Cruising is smooth. Not sure if I want to just replace them, or go straight to CV axles.

 

Have you checked them, by eye, while prying on them?  Noise during shifting could be a lot of things.  

 

p.s.  "going CV" isn't as easy as it sounds.  Expensive too.

Edited September 24, 2020 by NewZed

[jpndave]

If you are back down here anytime soon we can change them in my press in like 30 minutes. 

[Zetsaz]

Just now, NewZed said:

 

Have you checked them, by eye, while prying on them?  Noise during shifting could be a lot of things.  

Haven't done checks while prying, but I already have a rebuilt CLSD, with an RT style diff mount and double checked all mounting points and nuts/bolts were tightened.

Noise is also happening if let off throttle at low speeds and go back and forth between coasting/loading the engine downhill. Can hear a bit of thunking every time I let off the gas or hit it again at lower speeds. Doesn't happen at cruise or if I only shift at higher RPMs. I had assumed that had to do with all the load already going one direction on the joints and them not having much slack on them to move back and forth at that point. 

[Zetsaz]

13 minutes ago, NewZed said:

p.s.  "going CV" isn't as easy as it sounds.  Expensive too.

 

I mean... if I wanted EASY I could always just get Z Car Garage axles that bolt in, but that's a $1500 endeavor and would cover most of the rest of what I'm looking at doing haha

[NewZed]

I'm not aware of any "bolt-in" CV axle swaps.  They all require welding or hub axle and flange swaps.  Plus the fact that most CV axles are too long unless you go with the Porsche 930 style.  Which also, apparently, have their own issues of being loose themselves, after wearing out quickly.

 

There might be new stuff out there.  But the CV swap problems and adventures have been a constant source of entertainment over the years.  No offense to those with the problems (but thanks for the stories). 

 

Good luck.  Hope it's just u-joints.  Get high quality u-joints, the cheap ones can be already loose.  Datsun u-joints are surprisingly tight, with their precision thickness retaining clips and everything.  There are six total, of course, in the drive train.  So any looseness adds up.

Edited September 24, 2020 by NewZed
added a be

[Zetsaz]

1 hour ago, NewZed said:

I'm not aware of any "bolt-in" CV axle swaps.  They all require welding or hub axle and flange swaps.  Plus the fact that most CV axles are too long unless you go with the Porsche 930 style.  Which also, apparently, have their own issues of being loose themselves, after wearing out quickly.

 

There might be new stuff out there.  But the CV swap problems and adventures have been a constant source of entertainment over the years.  No offense to those with the problems (but thanks for the stories). 

 

Good luck.  Hope it's just u-joints.  Get high quality u-joints, the cheap ones can be already loose.  Datsun u-joints are surprisingly tight, with their precision thickness retaining clips and everything.  There are six total, of course, in the drive train.  So any looseness adds up.

 

Z car garage has some nice quality ones designed specifically to be bolt in but they're pricey. For a 240z without upgrading the stub axles, they'd probably break before the half shafts, but on my setup the bolt in cv axles would probably work well. The expense is probably not worth it now though. Will just go new quality U joints and call it good 

[jpndave]

1 hour ago, Zetsaz said:

Haven't done checks while prying, but I already have a rebuilt CLSD, with an RT style diff mount and double checked all mounting points and nuts/bolts were tightened.

Noise is also happening if let off throttle at low speeds and go back and forth between coasting/loading the engine downhill. Can hear a bit of thunking every time I let off the gas or hit it again at lower speeds. Doesn't happen at cruise or if I only shift at higher RPMs. I had assumed that had to do with all the load already going one direction on the joints and them not having much slack on them to move back and forth at that point. 

I don't usually pry on things to check the joints. If you can see the joints rock the car back and forth in gear or jack it up and rock the wheel,car in gear park brake off. Look for movement between the cross and cup. 

 

As for CVS, @1969honda and I have a design semi solidified. We'll be using the extremely popular and common 930 CV. I just bought a CNC lathe to buld a lot of the custom pieces that may be necessary. So, that might be a good option too.