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Ironhead

ANOTHER Datsun Z/LS3/T56 Swap Thread

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1 hour ago, LLave said:

Awesome work! Who the heck uses 12-24? 

 

Good question...I encountered something a couple of years ago where the threads I was trying to match were smaller than 1/4 or M6, bigger than 10-32 or M5, and I was wracking my brain because at that time I didn't even know there was a 12-24.  I finally figured it out.

 

The only place I have found hardware in 12-24 is at McMaster-Carr....whom I consider the greatest retailer on the planet...at least for most of the things I tend to buy.

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Yet more good work.

 

My Retro spec tail light trims looked great but the mounting tabs were barely on there and at least half came off when attaching, I think I shall be scrapping them and just carbon skiining my original panels myself. They will look as good but be strong, won't be as light, but we are taking grams here so it doesn't matter.

 

Hope your fare better.

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1 hour ago, EF Ian said:

Yet more good work.

 

My Retro spec tail light trims looked great but the mounting tabs were barely on there and at least half came off when attaching, I think I shall be scrapping them and just carbon skiining my original panels myself. They will look as good but be strong, won't be as light, but we are taking grams here so it doesn't matter.

 

Hope your fare better.

 

Thanks Ian.

 

When you say "mounting tabs" are you referring to the threaded studs that are bonded to the CF parts?  If so I had one come off already and I reattached with JB Weld...time will tell if it holds.

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:53 AM, EF Ian said:

Yes, mine were all bonded on very poorly, almost like an afterthought. Hopefully the JB weld holds up.

 

The JB was hardened today, and I got them all to bolt up without any more failing...

 

You have to be really careful though.  The back of the CF parts are not even, and if you tighten the nuts too tightly, they pull the low studs out.  I just barely snugged them, and used nylon stop nuts so they wouldn't back off over time. 

 

I certainly agree with you though, they definitely could have engineered this better.

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I got the engine ready to drop in the car and see how everything fits.

 

The motor comes with the "Corvette" spacing for the accessory drive, which requires a high mounted alternator, and by my measurements this wouldn't fit in the Z.  So I converted the front of the motor to Camaro/GTO spacing with a low mounted alternator.  Even this led to some interference, as the OEM parts were designed to use a high mounted power steering pump, and with a shorter "alt only" belt the belt rubs on the OEM alternator mount.  An aftermarket alternator mount solved that problem.  Basically it was all solved through a lot of parts being ordered then returned.  It all seems squared away now and uses a stock belt tensioner, which I wanted.

 

The engine has a scavenge only dry sump system, that uses the OEM oil pump for pressure.  The two stage scavenge pump did not clear the Hoke passenger side engine mount, so I had to modify the mount by narrowing it .5" or so....but this was easy even for a hack like me.  The valve covers are designed for dry sump engines and delete the oil fill.  Since the engine has no sump I was concerned about oil inadvertently being put in the normal fill port....although I don't know how that could happen unless I did it myself.  Mainly just trying to clean up hardware that I won't be using.  And yes, they add a bit of bling too....

 

I have been taking measurements and there are several places where the fit is going to be close...mainly between the steering rack and the hardware on the front of the engine, and between the oil hoses and the braces for the Apex cross-member.  It is also going to be challenging finding a place for the oil tank...unless I want to put it in the passenger compartment...which I don't.

 

Time to drop in the motor and find out for sure...

 

Thanks for looking.

 

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2 hours ago, grannyknot said:

Very sweet,  where are you going to find room for the oil reservoir?

 

Good question...

 

My hope is that I can cut some of the sheet metal and fit it into the space where the battery originally was.  I have to get the engine in and just see how everything fits up.

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20 hours ago, Ironhead said:

 

Good question...

 

My hope is that I can cut some of the sheet metal and fit it into the space where the battery originally was.  I have to get the engine in and just see how everything fits up.

Sure, there is all kinds of room under the battery/wheel well.

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18 hours ago, grannyknot said:

Sure, there is all kinds of room under the battery/wheel well.

 

Agreed, you can move that sheet metal under the battery "down" a long way. 


Are you going to stick with the exhaust manifolds? 

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2 hours ago, LLave said:

Are you going to stick with the exhaust manifolds? 

 

I was planning to....just because they are compact....and I figured it was a good way to simplify things rather than trying to source or build headers.  Plus even with them the engine's power output should be more than enough to get me in trouble.....

 

But I was taking some measurements today prior to dropping in the motor, and I think the flanges on the manifolds sit too wide and will hit the frame rails.

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Got the engine in the car this morning....

 

Several areas of interference came up.  The exhaust manifolds, as I suspected, were much too wide and had to come off.  So I guess I am in the market for headers....thinking of making my own.

 

The alternator was hitting the driver's side engine mount base.  The alternator I was using is a 140 amp model off of a GTO.  The stud for the battery cable was the portion striking the engine mount...not good of course.  I think my car would be more than amply served by a 100 or 110 amp alternator, if those are physically smaller I might try one of them.  Otherwise I am going to have to significantly modify the engine mount on that side.  I just pulled the alternator for the time being to get the engine in.

 

Finally, the front edge of the oil pan was hitting the steering rack.  I mounted the rack on spacers, so it could be raised or lowered if needed.  I didn't want to significantly raise the engine, so I lowered the steering rack .5",  which game me roughly .25" clearance between it and the oil pan.  I just have to space the rod end on the steering knuckle downward an equivalent amount, to avoid bump steer problems.

 

So there  were a few hassles...but I kind of expected some...and nothing that cannot be solved.  I was hoping to get away with using the OEM exhaust manifold....but that isn't happening.

 

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1 hour ago, Ironhead said:

So I guess I am in the market for headers....thinking of making my own.

Those OEM exhaust manifolds look pretty tight and streamlined, everything but the connecting flange.  I guess there is no way to cut off the flange and extend it down, cast iron is pretty weird stuff to weld.

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Nice! That is a big step. My feelings on manifolds were similar to yours. The power gain is not really a factor, OEMs are nicely designed and if they fit, run em.

I went with the JTR/Sandersons they are ok. Easy close fit to the block, which leaves plenty of room. The are off the shelf, which saves time and expense. In hindsight I sort of wish I had either went with Hawks long tubes, or made my own. Honestly, mostly because long tubes look cool.

 

The turbo guys weld V-band flanges to OEM manifolds all the time. Might be worth considering. 

 

I am sure whatever you come up with will be bad ass.  

 

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2 hours ago, grannyknot said:

Those OEM exhaust manifolds look pretty tight and streamlined, everything but the connecting flange.  I guess there is no way to cut off the flange and extend it down, cast iron is pretty weird stuff to weld.

 

 

30 minutes ago, LLave said:

Nice! That is a big step. My feelings on manifolds were similar to yours. The power gain is not really a factor, OEMs are nicely designed and if they fit, run em.

I went with the JTR/Sandersons they are ok. Easy close fit to the block, which leaves plenty of room. The are off the shelf, which saves time and expense. In hindsight I sort of wish I had either went with Hawks long tubes, or made my own. Honestly, mostly because long tubes look cool.

 

The turbo guys weld V-band flanges to OEM manifolds all the time. Might be worth considering. 

 

I am sure whatever you come up with will be bad ass.  

 

 

I have never tried welding cast iron, but as I understand things, it is pretty difficult and trouble prone to do.  My welding skills are marginal, to be honest.  I have another car for which I built a fairly complex all-stainless exhaust with V-bands and all that.  I think I could do a decent job on a stainless header....it's just that I know it will be very, very time consuming to do.

 

I was looking at the Hawks long tube headers.  My main concern there is that my steering shaft is not routed exactly like stock, so there might be issues with that.  Also they are significant money....but really...how is it possible for places to make a quality set of headers for much less than that?

 

I figure if I built my own...about $700 in materials and a LOT of time.  Or just pay $1400 for the Hawks.  If I was sure they would fit, I would probably just do the latter....

 

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

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16 hours ago, Ironhead said:

 

I figure if I built my own...about $700 in materials and a LOT of time.  Or just pay $1400 for the Hawks.  If I was sure they would fit, I would probably just do the latter....

 

 

 

That is the line of thinking that made me end up getting JTR shorties. 

 

I didn't place my motor in a "standard" location and I wanted to use a Sander/Vintage air AC compressor. Hawks are a  significant cost, but if I knew they would fit and be done, I would spend the money. They should have a beat up set in mild steel or something that they ship to people for mock-up. Test headers.

 

Building a set is tempting. Something super custom and self made is always gratifying. Check out Cone Engineering for collectors.

https://www.coneeng.com/exhaust_system_kits.html

and Columbia River has good pricing on mandrel bends

http://www.mandrelbends.com/mandrel-bends.html

 

Also Speedway Motors has builder kits that might be a good starting point. You can fab it out of mild steel and send it over to Jet-Hot for coating. 

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/speedway-exhaust-header-pipe-kits~8207-10191-4529-11-524-31037

 

Ultimately I just opted to get the off the self JTR/Sandersons and move on. They are not my favorite design, but I am certain the will get the job done. 

https://jagsthatrun.com/products/headers-for-datsun-z-ls1-v8?variant=7943951777835

 

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Yeah...I am in sort of a quandary as to what I will do.  Knowing myself, when I order something like the Hawk headers....for that kind of money....I tend to find them kind of a let-down when I actually have them in hand.  Usually the workmanship is not what I hoped, and I also am not at all sure they will fit my car.  I assume they are designed around the Hawk engine mounts, which could cause all sorts of problems for applications that use other mounts...like mine.

 

I am leaning toward building my own.  I would like to finish the car....someday....but with projects like this the journey is at least half the fun anyway....at least for me.

 

I tried the smaller 105 AMP GM alternator (part #19244779) today, and it fit without having to modify my engine mounts.  I would think 105 AMP would be enough, since I will have no A/C or sound system or any of that.

 

Just another snag sorted without too much hassle.

 

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Still enjoying your work on this build. That engine looks great in the bay.

 

 

 

I'm sure its not problem where you live like it is in my country, but I see you have a lot of bare metal still, is it not worth giving it a quick coat of epoxy primer to prevent any flash rust from forming?

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I used a set of uncoated Sandersons, added the Cone Engineering collectors, welded on v-clamps, sectioned and rolled the pipes in tighter for better clearance. That was for the JK project on my avatar. Not having those big flanges helps quite a bit for clearance and the collectors did make a difference on flow/power. I also touched up tubes near the ports and blended them with a burr for better flow up at the heads. Someday I'll fabricate some SS equal length tuned headers for it but this worked out pretty well and was relatively quick for a semi-custom install. Maybe something along those lines would work out for you.

 

Nice build, I enjoy following along. I wish I could get some traction on my project.

 

Headers1.jpg

 

View of the merge collectors HUGE improvement over the regular ones.

MergeCollector.jpg

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On 1/17/2019 at 12:44 PM, EF Ian said:

I'm sure its not problem where you live like it is in my country, but I see you have a lot of bare metal still, is it not worth giving it a quick coat of epoxy primer to prevent any flash rust from forming?

 

I had sort of planned to have to periodically update the epoxy as I finished welding each area, but flash rust really hasn't been a problem....at all.  I imagine just because I live in a fairly low-humidity environment.

 

On 1/17/2019 at 2:40 PM, jpndave said:

I used a set of uncoated Sandersons, added the Cone Engineering collectors, welded on v-clamps, sectioned and rolled the pipes in tighter for better clearance. That was for the JK project on my avatar. Not having those big flanges helps quite a bit for clearance and the collectors did make a difference on flow/power. I also touched up tubes near the ports and blended them with a burr for better flow up at the heads. Someday I'll fabricate some SS equal length tuned headers for it but this worked out pretty well and was relatively quick for a semi-custom install. Maybe something along those lines would work out for you.

 

Nice build, I enjoy following along. I wish I could get some traction on my project.

 

Headers1.jpg

 

View of the merge collectors HUGE improvement over the regular ones.

MergeCollector.jpg

 

I might end up going that route...not sure.   I just wish the JTR headers were stainless.  I am reluctant to bolt something on that I am just going to want to change out down the road.  

 

Thanks for the comments guys.

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