are you going it alone or do you have help

[jt1]

When I was younger, teens & twenties, my friends and I used to work on our cars or race cars almost every night, or go to the track and tear them up. We were all single, liked to party, and generally didn't give a @#$% which way the wind blew.

 

Now firmly in middle age, there's always job/business/wife/kids/parents/social stuff to attend to, and my body can't run on 4 or 5 hrs sleep anymore. My friends are in the same boat and it's really difficult for us to get together once a month, let alone every day. So most of the time I work on the car myself, when I get a free moment. It's a real pleasure when we do get to work on something and talk about the old days!

 

jt

[RB26240Z]

I am in the garage myself most of the time. One time I asked a friend to give me a hand, he came over and his first question was, why are you doing all this work when you can just buy a new car? Three minutes later, I told him I had a back pain and wanted to call it a night.

 

Kept wrenching after he left......

 

Henry

[cygnusx1]

As I age (almost 38 now), I tend to work on my car alone more and more. Friends become further away either by distance or by their own lives absorbing them. As high school buddies in the early 80's, we BMX biked together and worked on our ratty junk cars so that we could cruise the streets at night. We worked on the cars and put down beer almost every night. Nowadays, we rarely see eachother. Each one of us still loves and mod's cars but we each tend to work alone due to distances and schedules. We try to get together as an informal "car club of buddies" at least twice a year. We don't always work on cars. We may do a breakfast, an autocross, a ski trip, a day at a track, or a car show. If and when we have a huge job to do on a car, we schedule a date and someone usually can help another out in some way. It is definately NOT like it used to be. Things change. Some for the better and some for the worse. Friends are valuable, especially old ones. It sometimes takes a little extra effort to keep in touch. Unfortunately, not all people realize that. If you are one of those forgetful types, put it on your busy schedule, stop, and call an old friend!

[silicone boy]

I do almost everything by myself out of pride-that is until I burned out and farmed the project over to a shop for completion. Trouble is, I also made all the mistakes by myself, since I hadn't done any of this stuff at all prior to the Z project. At times, I think I would have been more productive with others around since I'm prone to long periods of staring at a particular problem on the car and thinking about the possibilities. Having others around to brainstorm is helpful.

[Tim240z]

At times, I think I would have been more productive with others around since I'm prone to long periods of staring at a particular problem on the car and thinking about the possibilities. Having others around to brainstorm is helpful.

 

I agree. I spend a LOT of time looking at a problem before I actually tackle it. Not sure if it is being dilligent, or procrastinating......In my case it's 70% thinking and 10% fabricating, then 20% reworking the original fabrication.

I have found often that my best results are when I just start building without thinking about it....

[grumpyvette]

personally I learned long ago to ask lots of questions,

youll generally be far ahead to think things thru first,gather the correct tools and ask for INFORMED advice, before starting

and get as many differant INFORMED opinions before starting

as I can, because its usually not the work itself,

but finding out exactly how and why something needs to be done ,EACTLY what tools need to be used

and finding out exactly how somethings done correctly,

before starting that takes the most time. .........if your doing it correctly!

 

this approach saves both time and LOTS of money,........

 

since it easily tends to cost two to ten times more and take longer to start off doing it WRONG! then start over and repair or replace the screw-ups

 

silicone boy

has a good point. some times its a good idea to farm out some parts of a project.

in that its silly to start a project unless you have the money,time tools and skills or at a minimum the tools and desire to learn those skills and the time to do so!example, if you can,t paint or build engines, farm that part of the project out to a skilled shop specializeing in that work and stop squealing when they screw your wallet,almost to death!

skilled help usually costs big bucks

[getZ]

Think of your mistakes as paying for credit hours at a college, thats not always cheap either.

 

The big mistakes are just expensive credit hours.

 

The first stroker motor I built had a nice hole put in the oil pan rail to clearance the crank after the machine work was already done........so sad

[Paz8]

Grumpy, I know exactly how you feel, I'm the same age as you and been spinning wrenches since my early teens (when the world was simpler) I work alone 99.9 % of the time and like it that way,. After building 2 custom Harleys the last 2 winters, I decided to do a Z car. I'm reitired and have the time so nothing I do is rushed, I love fabrication with steel, bending welding etc. The Important thing in this Hobby is that it is just that a HOBBY, if I don't feel like working on the Z the next few days then so what? I do it for enjoyment and it is great to drive something you built from nothing. Amen

[Phantom]

I just read all the posts in this thread - now I'm really depressed! It's amazing how we can have people all around us and be so alone.

deja & Mikekz - don't give up totally on the Atlanta Z CLub - look up Dennis (AKA: the menace) McGinnis, ask him about 'the body' and tell him Bill Davis says "Hi". They're not all a bunch of snobs although I know some fall neatly into that 'purist' definition. I'm in a club here - even had one of the most miserable experiences of my life as president of the club for a year. People can be mean. Then again - they can really come through when you need it the most. I use the club to network - meet a lot of people and learn of resources. Last night I met a guy who is a member of Motorsport Ranch - It's a 1.7 mile road race course where you become a member like being a member of a golf club. Anyway - he offered me 30 minute sessions on the course, with him in car instructing, for $30. That's a deal that can't be beaten locally. I've also been able to source parts and some good shops through the club.

When it comes to help with the wrenching - the car either goes to a shop or I call my sons. Usually my older one will help out and he'll bring his wife and my grandson (note I said MY grandson!) with him so it's a twofer. He doesn't have any reservations about working on a V8 Z car and is up for learning all he can.

[Drax240z]

I've done the club thing, ended up being hounded by people wanting pieces of my time and it got to the point I just didn't enjoy it anymore.

 

I'm in a bit of a different position in that I've owned a few shops for the last 2-3 years of my project. I've always had another guy around with a really good knowledge base to bounce ideas off of and lend a helping hand when needed. But by and large it was a project that I undertook completely solo. And in many ways I prefer it that way, I was forced to learn everything the hard way.

[Phantom]

personally I learned long ago to ask lots of questions' date='

[b']youll generally be far ahead to think things thru first,gather the correct tools and ask for INFORMED advice, before starting[/b]

and get as many differant INFORMED opinions before starting

as I can, because its usually not the work itself,

but finding out exactly how and why something needs to be done ,EACTLY what tools need to be used

and finding out exactly how somethings done correctly,

before starting that takes the most time. .........if your doing it correctly!

 

this approach saves both time and LOTS of money,........

 

since it easily tends to cost two to ten times more and take longer to start off doing it WRONG! then start over and repair or replace the screw-ups

I totally agree there. It took me 5 years to decide what body kit I wanted for my car and then what color(s) I wanted to paint it. Then it took me another 5 years to decide what to do with my drivetrain with the last year on this forum reading all the postsI could find on the subject which resulted in the decision for the LS1 / T56 combo. I've learned to read, then take time and analyze what I've read along while contemplating the next 4 or 5 subsequent moves so I have as few do-overs as possible.

The most expensive do-over I've had was when I decided to change my interior color from brown to red - about 2 years after doing my seats in brown leather - ouch. Once the color decision was made the interior and the sound system went pretty fast. Now I'm struggling through brake and suspension upgrades but, so far, it looks like everything will progress in a fairly linear fashion so costs will be somewhat controlled. It's amazing - I've had this car 14 years now and I'm still learning, modifying, progressing.

[280zwitha383]

Wow! Don't put all your eggs in one basket....

 

I do all of my own work not because there's noone else around, but I like to have time to myself while I'm working. I have to deal with people all the time at work and car time is solo. Plus, I find it relaxing 99% of the time.

[2003z]

I do all my own work, with my wife or a friend helping when I need an extra set of hands. I do help my friends with their cars when I have time.

 

Although I am in the Ga. Z club also, the main people I hang out with are the Georgia G and Z club, which is really just a group of enthusiasts that welcome any cars. We have a monthly get together, but we aren't an official club with dues and officers. 2-3 times per year we have a mod day at my house, with a cookout, keg, and people bring their projects to install. That way, those that know how to do stuff can help out and teach the ones that don't. They are usually a lot of fun, but I'm always on the teaching/doing side.

[Michael]

On matters where I’m reasonably competent, I prefer to work alone. But whenever I have doubts, especially in installing expensive parts where casual stupidity could cost me dearly, I would much rather seek the help of some one more experienced.

 

I’ve found that the more I learn about engine theory, the more I doubt my capacity to execute engine practice. It’s almost as if ignorance really were strength. This is one reason why my engine sat abandoned and forlorn for three years. Then I found Denny, (Denny411 on Hybridz), who lives “nearby†(~90 miles). It’ll take many more weekends of joint work for my engine to finally run – but perhaps now it’s a matter of months, not decades. Pete Paraska and Mike Kelly have also been very helpful over the years.

 

Like many people my age (30’s) I’m finding that time is more precious than it used to be, but a combination of luck and planning has somewhat lightened the financial burden. Often it strikes me that it would be more productive – and cheaper in the long run – to pay shop-rates for a professional to finish the job. But like many have said, can we really trust a “professional†with a unique custom car? And what happens to the achievement value, if you replace your hands and tools with a checkbook and credit card? I would much rather be in a friend’s shop and “helping outâ€, even if all that I’m doing is watching him work, than to completely farm out the work to a stranger.

 

But the issue of working on cars alone vs. working with friends is much deeper than just the car hobby. Unfortunately as people move into the “family formation†stage of life, social interaction between acquaintances and even between friends becomes sporadic and strained. My wife and I made the decision not to have children, and this has done wonders for ensuring leisure time and leisure money, but few people in our demographic cohort have a comparable approach. It’s hard to find social interaction even to play bridge or go shooting, let alone to work on cars. My wife complains the she doesn’t have any friends – and women are supposed to be more social than men!

[John Scott]

When I was in my teens, early 20s I worked 5 years saving and acquiring parts for the "ultimate" 455 Oldsmobile engine. $1700 in head work when a rebuild cost about $600, custom rods, Arias pistons, lots of Mondello parts, a hard to find 425 Toronado block, Dyer blower drive, job at the local speed shop. The shop owner turned out to be a big time coke dealer, after months fired me when I refused payment in drugs, spent my $$ on ?? instead of investing in performance parts, a new hot machine shop butchered my block crank, rods, into a pile of scrap, then left town, and I was left without a job and a hard lesson. Fast forward almost 20 years, think I learned my lesson? My V6 Blower motor had a cam walk trashing the valve train due to a builder's oversight, along with a oil pump that wasn't tightened. This was a guy with a solid reputation who built top fuel motors! At least he admitted his fault, rebuilt everything for free. Later I had a tension rod come loose after some strut work at one of the local shops, right after a really fast run down the highway. Since then I don't trust anyone to tighten my lug nuts, work on my brakes, mess with any suspension parts, or change my oil. Now I turn every bolt I can, and make sure when someone does anything they come with a long long list of great recommendations. I now have a short list of great shops for balancing, head work, engine builds, and crankshaft machine work. It took a lot of years to build the trust of these. On the positive side, websites like this can save you a ton of heartache. The members who are truly experienced and willing to share, are priceless. John

[Cruez]

I would fall into the loner group also.

 

The last time I built the Z, I did it completely alone. (though it sucked putting in a tranny that is lying on your chest and while I am lying on my back on the cold driveway when it doesn't want to go in )

 

98% of it was done at night. I can think better and get more accomplished when its quiet and no one to interrupt me.

 

I have a neighbor that wants to help when its time to tune the Haltech.

 

With the family, business, and other obligations.. I have to make time to work on it, but when I do make time, I stay on it until I am exhausted.

[pparaska]

This thread has made me realize how lucky I am!

 

During the building of my Z, my quiet, thoughtful father was there many a weekend day to help. He hardly ever tried to change my mind about how I was doing something, unless I asked. He has decent mechanical skills, but not nearly the ignorant fearlessness that I do when it comes to just "trying" something. But he was always there to help! He'll turn 88 this May, but is as strong and sharp as any 55 year old. For many reasons, I will really miss him when he's gone.

 

I'm also very lucky to have met Glenn McCoy at the International Z convention when it was held in York PA many years ago. Glenn is a member here, but has never posted. You've probably seen pictures of his Daytona Cobra Replica, built from a modified Nalle body kit: http://alteredz.com/GlennCobraDaytona.html

 

Glenn has been turning wrenched professionally for over 30 years, and is the best troubleshooter I've ever seen. He's worked on Datsuns, BMW, Mercedes, Mitsubishi's, and probably other brands either at dealerships or reputable repair shops. He's given his body a break now by taking a great job as a service manager at a high end repair facility that works on BMW and Mercedes. I've spent hundreds of hours on the phone with Glenn shooting the automotive $hit, asking questions, getting corrected on my silly ideas about how car stuff works, etc. Glenn will come over and help just about any weekend I would ask, I'm sure. He's raising 2 sons himself, and doing one hell of a job at it, but is always willing to help if he can. He's about 40 minutes away, just about on the edge of too far for quick trips.

 

Mike Kelly and I talk about cars on the phone, but don't really work on each other's cars - he's about 100 miles away. But he does throw his Z "shindigs" (don't worry, there's no dancing - except for dancing girls )

Sometimes we do work on cars at those, other times we talk cars, politics, women, kids, you name it. I always look forward to those.

 

The club thing bores me as well. The local club is more interested in pretty drives throug the country, going out to eat, watching the SuperBowl together, etc. They do at least have an occassional "tech" day, although that's usually about detailing . Fine people, I tell you, just not my idea of fun. With family commitments, I like to use "car time" away from the garage at a track event or at least a cruise in with REAL car guys who build their own stuff.

 

I'm also lucky in that I found a great painter/bodywork crew to initially paint my car and now fix it. I don't do body work. I admit I absolutely suck at it and don't have the patience.

 

I build my own engines, but have a class act machine shop near me that is expensive, but VERY competitent.

 

Yes, I feel very lucky indead!

 

But most of the time, I too am in the garage alone. I do wish I could get my 10 year old daughter or 12 year old son interested, or even my wife to come out and shoot the crap while I work, but I'm usually alone. Which is kind of nice sometimes...

[theBrit]

When I was a kid my father helped me repair my car, he never faltered even after spending weeks helping me straigten and respray my mini (orignal mini), he did this 3 times even whan I had the lamest excuse for smashing it. Aged 17 I just could not get it into my head that there is a physical limit to just how fast a corner can be taken! Worse in the south west of England the hedge rows are made of granite - literaly.

My brothers have always been into cars and bikes, lots of support there.

 

Any way I moved to America 10 years ago and lost it all and felt is acutly.

I slowly found some good budies who would come over and shoot the breeze whilst I wrenched, they were not really car guys but I expect this audience knows how motivating it can be just to have the company sometimes.

Then by sheer luck 2 years ago I moved into a house across the street from a guy who builds wild hybrids for a living.

Now I still end up doing it 95% of the work alone as I get tremendous satisfaction from it, plus I have had to many experts screw up royally, but it is awsome to be able to wander over the road with a fist of full parts and ideas and have some one to bounce them off (ideas not the parts )

 

I think I am tremendously lucky becasue I remember how much less fun it was for me when I was on my own. It sounds preechy but I hope I never take my friends for granted and risk loseing what I now have.

[280zwitha383]

Ha, this post reminds me of the times when somehow me working on my car at my house seems to be the place to be. Every once in a while someone will swing by to see what I'm up to (they know at certain times I will be working on my cars) and tell someone else, then my fiance comes over. Before you know it I have a small crowd watching me stare and think about what I'm about to do.

[DaleMX]

Alone here too. And most of the gearheads around here seem to have something to prove, so I stay away from them. I have 1 friend I can trust to help on car stuff. He's a 60 year old X drag racer that has built a ton of AMC stuff (and a Mustang or 2 and a 39 Buick). But he live's about 60 miles away so we never get together to work on cars. But, we do work together so we get to gab and share ideas and that help's to keep me focused.