Towing a Z behind an Odyssey?

[kiwi303]

why not just pick up an old flatdeck truck with rear ramps. ebay shows a number of ex-salvage tilt deck single vehicle trucks. and you could rent it out to a car club for a bit of cash too

[JMortensen]

why not just pick up an old flatdeck truck with rear ramps. ebay shows a number of ex-salvage tilt deck single vehicle trucks. and you could rent it out to a car club for a bit of cash too

I had the thought of getting one of those Isuzu NPR diesel box vans. The problem with either is the ramps would have to be HUGE. Huge ramps = hassle = heavy = no fun.

[TravRMK]

I agree with others. Just get you a cheap old american truck. You can find old domestic trucks in the $1000 range that would fit the bill easily. Here localy a co worker picked up a 1978 Chevy 3/4 ton with a rebuilt 350 for $700 6 months ago, and has daily drove it without any problems.

[kiwi303]

The problem with either is the ramps would have to be HUGE. Huge ramps = hassle = heavy = no fun.

 

get a couple of hydraulic rams and fit the ramps to the back of the truck like a tail-lift truck just hit a leaver and then drive off

[sickboy]

Not safe IMO, you want something with some mass towing a car on a trailer. I know a guy who was towing his race car behind a V8 Grand Cherokee, the whole rig started wagging (for whatever reason) and it all ended up in a tangled mess next to the highway. I've had trailer tire blowouts and emergency manuevers at highway speeds, they are scary in a 4-door 3/4 ton truck but controllable. Behind an Odyssey? Could you save it?

[heavy85]

...This is why I find it hard to justify another vehicle in the fleet. Maybe I'll just build the car "streetable", and drive it to the track. I wanted to avoid this, but in my case, it might be the best financial option.

 

Ditto with what I've done. I drive 1-3.5 hours to track/autocross/dragstrip regularly (6-8 autoxs, 2 track days, & one dragstrip this year) with the car packed full of slicks on 15x10" rims with tools, jack, etc. Granted you can't take someone with you and it's not the most comfy but it works - especially for only two or three events per year. You can even get a small tent and sleeping bag in there if you stuff hard enough. You can also be VERY fast with a streetable car. Only other real drawback is you tend to only drive within your limits to make sure you can make it home. This may actually not be bad but probably costs a second or two at the track.

 

Good luck but whatever you do dont let a lack of tow vehicle prevent you from getting out on track!

 

Cameron

[cygnusx1]

Yeah, I feel I need to vent on the track or I will go beyond my limits on the street....that would be bad. Now I am leaning towards a streetable track car to omit all the fuss of trailers and towing for a few track days per year.

[jc052685]

Obviously, I would be pushing the limits of the Odyssey judging by all the great pro/con feedback. I may need to step back and rethink the scenarios. Flat towing the car with a dolly is a good idea unless I wreck it at the track and can't drag it back. The Odyssey is rated for 3500pounds by Honda. For some reason most trailers don't list their actual weight. I am looking. The Featherlites are gorgeous, but they do blow my budget. Here are the numbers:

 

2007 Odyssey

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 5,952 lbs. GVWR

Front Gross Axle Weight Rating 2,833 lbs. front GAWR

Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating 3,197 lbs. rear GAWR

Max Trailer Weight 3,500 lbs. towing capacity

Maximum GCWR 8,210 lbs. GCWR

 

It's a pretty stout vehicle with more interior cubic feet than a Chevy Suburban. I think the weak link would be the transmission and the fact that it's front wheel drive. Remember I would be using this very sparsely. I mean literally, two or three times a year. This is why I find it hard to justify another vehicle in the fleet. Maybe I'll just build the car "streetable", and drive it to the track. I wanted to avoid this, but in my case, it might be the best financial option.

 

I was (for about 2 years) towing at least twice a week with my 91 toyota p/u. Trips were between 325 and 600 miles round trip. Let me give you a little better idea here.

 

I was towing s30's/s130's/z31's. All was being done on a steel 16ft car hauler with wood floor that was completely oil logged. Trailer weight in at about 1200lbs. Truck was about 3500lbs with passengers. Oh, did i mention its a 4cyl truck. We usulally weigh around 4700 comeing back out acrose the scales at the scrap metal yard. Going in was another matter. We were usually in the 6500lbs to 9500lbs range. GVWR is 4400lbs and CGVWR is 6700lbs!!!

 

Dont get me wrong, those "heavy" loads were hell but the ones that were at or just over the rating were no big deal. I know your van has more power and brakes than I have. The only problem was those heavy loads liked to pull weight off the front end, making the front tires like to lock up. You wont have this problem being front wheel drive and only having 350lb tonge weight.

 

The only thing I would be worried about in your case would be the tounge rating. I would stick with a car dolly or tow bar. If you are under or right at the manufactuers combined weight rating then your tranny should be more than willing to do its duty. ESPECIALY only a handfull of time per year. If you opt for the trailer get breaks.

 

All in all I say the Honda should have no problem with what ever you choose to do. Just be aware of what is required of you to tow at the vehicals limits.

[SkYBlue280Z]

with the money u spent on that minivan you could of bought a fairly new Tahoe or Denali and could of pulled it with ease. =]

[Tony D]

I know, not good for the drivetrain.

 

Like the snowbirds, I have flat-towed Z-Cars across the country and back. There is nothing wrong with it, and for $60 you can get a tow bar from Harbor Freight.

I got a Valley Towbar back in 95, and I tow a lot of stuff around.

 

There is just ONE issue with using a tow-bar:

 

You wreck or tweak your Z, and you're screwed!

 

I would NOT flat-tow a car to competitive events unless it was something like an Auto-X where the chance of curbing the car and bending a wheel off-line is minimal.

 

If you have a real trailer, or even a two-wheeled Tow Dolly, you're in better shape because you can winch it on and drive away. A Tow dolly, you need only two straight wheels on the car...front or back.

 

This is a serious consideration, and for a race car I expect the worst and would plan on bending the car heavily eventually. And then you will have to get it home.

 

This is aside from the fact that you would have to ramp up your coilovers to clear street obstacles flat-towing it. There is no way I could tow the LSR Car to the Event Location at it's racing height. I doubt I could tow it along many of the paved streets in some neighborhoods without it hitting heavily and severely!

 

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On the subject of Flat-Towing, I have a hitch on the back of my 75, and have towed most every earlier year of Z-Car behind it with that tow-bar. I did the same with Corvairs...And did it with my Microbus towing Beetles.

 

For simple transport it's really a cheap way to go. You can get set up now with the HF Bar and a set of Mickey Mouse Lights for the top, along with the adapter for your tail lights to work a flat-4 trailer light system for under $150.

 

But you will need street tires to tow the racecar. And some jurisdictions may look at you strange. But it's within the braking capabilites of just about any vehicle through FMVSS Requirements that they be brake-capable of 2.5X their own weight. That means you can tow just about any other car that weighs less than you with a towbar.

 

And I've lived by that for close to 30 years now. One of these days I just have to get a photo from someone that shows me towing the 240 with the Fairlady 2/2! It does get looks...but I have an R200 and a diffy cooler.

 

*****************************************************************

 

On the subject of the 'streetable z' instead of packing the inside of the car with crap, buy the small Harbor Freight Trailer for $239 or whatever it is. Deck half of it, and leave the back half open. Put a Truckbed toolbox, or JoBox bolted to the front and throw all your crap in it, and use a chain with a piece of PVC through the center of your racing tire rims and stick them vertically in the open back portion. You strap em down with a single ratchet tie. I loop chain under the deck, as well as have a spare trailer tire/axle/bearing assembly under there as well. This makes race day SO easy, no cleaning stuff out of the car, no ruining any good interior you may have, and you just can't fit all the great stuff in the car that you can on a trailer. All that stuff you normally take out of the car or any valuables like wallet or registration papers are safe it's securely locked inside a 2X2X4' metal box on the trailer and you are on-track. It's nice to put the stuff you take somewhere instead of just laying it on the ground, and that toolbox works great for that. Or you stick it under the trailer, where it's shaded/out of the rain and mist... My trailer weighed 800# TOTAL loaded with three rubbermaid toolboxes that contained a spare differential, distributor, axles, gads and scads of spares along with tools to change it all, and two plastic ramps to drive the car up onto so I could work underneath it without getting the jack out. This is a very viable alternative if you are going to drive to the track in the Z. I loaded my Z up a couple of times and it was just miserable. The little trailer was like night and day. Unhook it, wrap my chain through the spokes in the wheel so nobody drives off with it (tongue lock since did away with that need, or so I thought...till someone decided it would be funny to move my trailer to the far end of the event parking lot when I was on-course...ha ha guys! Very funny!)

I've gone cross-country towing that trailer, and the one with 12" tires is safe and sure tracking during emergency manouvres to 110 mph... er... 65mph, that's what I meant to say, 65mph. (55mph in California)

[cygnusx1]

with the money u spent on that minivan you could of bought a fairly new Tahoe or Denali and could of pulled it with ease. =]

 

They dont have double sliding doors and the interior space of a 2000sq-foot house with a low loading height, and they don't handle anywhere near the Odyssey. Besides the Oddy was brandy new, loaded, leather, without nav and backup cam, for 25K with awesome resale value...oh and did I mention it's rated for 26mpg on the highway.

 

Thanks for sharing those towing experiences. It looks like should just make the race car semi-streetable, put the hitch on the Odyssey, try flat towing or dolly towing, and maybe borrow a trailer and test it out with the Odyssey some time down the road. This would leave all of the options open without jumping in with a ton of additional dough at once.

 

I had even thought about towing a 240Z gutted car behind my Turbo 280Z with the Wilwood brakes on it.

[91_4x4runner]

I think you'll be lucky to see more than 50% of that economy when towing a trailer with the Z.....

[EMWHYR0HEN]

I had even thought about towing a 240Z gutted car behind my Turbo 280Z with the Wilwood brakes on it.

 

Now that I have to see!

[cygnusx1]

I think you'll be lucky to see more than 50% of that economy when towing a trailer with the Z.....

 

I would expect about 15-17mpg with a Z on the back.

[Tony D]

I had even thought about towing a 240Z gutted car behind my Turbo 280Z with the Wilwood brakes on it.

 

I wouldn't hesitate for a second on that, even with the standard ZX Brakes. It would flat-tow just fine. With a standard 280Z (77) it flat-towed a 240 on a bumper hitch (one of the 'universal kits' they tend to sell these days for 5mph bumpers) and that old Valley Industries Towbar from near Dover Deleware, through PA, up into Northern Michigan and then back down through Wisconsin and across I40 to California without any issues.

 

But that car had FULL synthetic lubes in the oil, I did NOT exceed 65 on that trip (honest! Except in the flat states...then it was upped marginally to the speed limit of 70) And when going through the mountians into Flagstaff, I slowed it down a bit.

 

Simply because I know the differentials get SMOKING HOT when you put a load on them. Normally on these trips I will drive 12 to 16 hours a day. On this trip I limited that to 10 to 12 hours.

 

I got the differential and tranny cooler/cooler pumps from Frank280ZX last time I visited him in Holland so I now have no such reservations about upping the speeds when towing the smaller trailer. With a flat-towed car, I would be conservative. Even at 70 I felt I was pushing it, but didn't want to block the semi's too badly.

 

An R180 towing an 800# trailer in 118F heat from LA to Phoenix will have a differential temperature of over 350F (hot enough to melt the plastic vent breather off the top of the diffy at least)! So towing for long distances/high speeds would necessitate an R200 at a minimum, and if the load was heavy, at least a differential cooler, if not one for the tranny as well.

 

FYI, the GT-R has differential and transmission coolers for the standard cars. Nissan knows a thing or two about putting power to the ground at speed. The diffy coolers I pick up were standard on all S130Turbos in Europe, and when the Z31 Turbo came out, they got both a gearbox and differential cooler. High load for extended periods needs a way to get the heat out!

 

And synthetic oils in those cases are gearbox savers!

 

But back to the comment, for a 1 or 2 hour tow someplace, I'd do it in a second with a 280ZX and a gutted 240Z. Without the coolers and junk. That's no big deal at all, and well within it's braking capacity.

 

JUST REMEMBER: unless you are on FLAT land, NEVER tow in overdrive! It will EAT that fifth gear (it's a good way to toast a marginal clutch as well!). I drove from the I275/I94 intersection outside of Detroit all the way back to California with a bungee across the console to hold the car in 5th gear when it started popping out. THe tranny was crap to begin with, towing about 1000# on the little trailer on that trip probably didn't help it any...

[JMortensen]

Now that I have to see!

I had a friend who towed his Z with his other Z to the MSA show about 10 years ago to sell it. He did sell the second Z as I recall. About the best thing I can say was that he didn't crash on the way down.

 

While I think your turbo with Wilwoods would be more than capable of towing and stopping a Z, there are other considerations too where the Z falls short. For towing you want a long wheelbase. It makes things a lot more stable in emergency situations. A Z has a wheelbase shorter than a 510. This friend of mine had a full cage that had a flip down license plate with the hitch welded into the cage behind the plate. That meant that he was sucking exhaust fumes for the several hours he was on his way from SLO to LA. With your typical Z trailer hitch it attaches to the mustache bar bolts. I don't think I'd want to put a couple thousand lbs on those bolts.

 

As Tony said, pull a utility trailer with race tires with a Z, but don't tow a Z with a Z. By the way I haven't tried one of those utility trailers, but I hear they're damn near impossible to back up because they turn so tightly.

[Tony D]

For towing you want a long wheelbase. It makes things a lot more stable in emergency situations. ... With your typical Z trailer hitch it attaches to the mustache bar bolts. I don't think I'd want to put a couple thousand lbs on those bolts. ... By the way I haven't tried one of those utility trailers, but I hear they're damn near impossible to back up because they turn so tightly.

 

I will mention that the 2+2 does seem to be better while towing the little trailer. I have made some pretty radical manouvres in that and it's been predictable and reliable.

 

My hitch bolts to the Bumper on the 280Z and is meant for the 1000# "Little Trailer" primarily. The other one is a custom hitch I made with the same 2" x .250" wall box tubing in a captive .375" thick end bracket that replaced my stock Datsun Tow Hook in the 'sandwich' between the stock skinny bumper bracket and the body. There is a secondary strap that goes to the rear crossmember behind the differential, but it's more a 'pushing' vector than anything with a torque moment to it. All it's motion is transferred through the A-Arm Bushings to the chassis down low.

 

I have had no issues backing the trailer...the key is to use one or two of those fiberglass bike whips with the flags on them to know what the trailer is doing when you don't have the toolbox on it. You either have to open up the hatch to see the thing, or put something back there that gives you a reference. Backing the trailer is actually slightly easier in the 'racing coupe' than the 'family 2+2'. I do NOT recommend the small-tired trailer, get the one with the 12" tires! On backing the little trailer...I have towed it behind my wife's Navara/Frontier, as well as off the back of my F250 Long Wheelbase Longbed...backing was not an issue with either of those, as long as I could SEE the trailer (which is nigh near impossible in most cases because it sits so low). The thing that helped me with the trucks was putting those whips dead center (well, just offset from the towbar on the trailer) on the front and the back, and painting one Flourescent Green. If you see the Green Pole (Rear Flag) to one side of the Orange Pole (Front Flag) you know that is the way the trailer is jack-knifing, and you can steer to counteract it. The biggest problem people have with backing is they confuse the directions in the mirror, or can't tell which way the trailer is moving until you're well into movement. With the pole, you know IMMEDIATELY if the wheels on the pushtruck are going in the wrong direction and can correct it before it gets too out of kilter. To stow the rods, either stash them in the car, or bend them all the way over the trailer and stick them in a loop you have for the purpose. It makes a nice prop for a tarp if you cover the trailer at night.

 

I came up with that for when it was behind the F250. Even with the tailgate down I couldn't see the trailer. With the flags on it, I could see it over the top of the tailgate no problem. I ended up breaking one of the rods doing something I shouldn't have been doing with it...so I cut them down to just under 4' tall, and stick them in the tool box on the trailer now. I have a little holder on the front and back of the toolbox for them, and it works just as good as with the flags on the opposite ends of the trailer.

[JMortensen]

I will mention that the 2+2 does seem to be better while towing the little trailer. I have made some pretty radical manouvres in that and it's been predictable and reliable.

I was more referring to emergency maneuvers with another Z in tow. I wouldn't be worried at all about pulling a utility trailer with a couple hundred lbs on it.

[240hoke]

I would go streetable too...if your running track days I doubt your going to total the car. You can just put a small hitch on the Z and tow your race wheels/tire to the track along with your canopy and other crap you might want on a small ultility tailor.

 

Thanks what I plan on doing with my 350z when the time is right.

[Clifton]

A little late but I was towing with the Landcruiser that is now sold and will be going back to towing with my reg cab 4 cyl Froniter. I've towed tandem axled trailers with it and with other 4cyl Nissan trucks in the past. It's not that bad. Last week I replaced both axles with one with brakes and put new 8 ply tires on it. The spare is the same lug as my truck so even less weight. Took over 350lbs off. It's just under 800 lbs for the trailer now. I'll be under 3000 loaded. Just keep enough tongue weight on it and avoid using OD if the TC doesn't lock up. I would rather be towing with an Odyssey than a Frontier.