Michael

Several of us have been revisiting the wide wheel/tire issue, after years of tinkering with other aspects of the car. Some considerations: 1. The better wheel selection is only in 5-lug. That entails a 5-lug conversion before any further dabbling in wheels/tires. But if going 5-lug, the brakes-question is immediately begged... namely to remain stock, or to "upgrade" - and by how much, and for what purpose. 2. As noted, 15" tire options are much constrained, other than for pure drag-slicks. To enjoy good selection in streetable tires with good traction, we almost invariably have to go to 17" or larger. 3. Since presumably the question of tires is prompted by that of traction, we first have to build every thing else... engine, drivetrain, suspension and so on - before delving into wheels/tires. Then we see how much traction we have, and how much additional is needed. Unfortunately this is a closed loop, because better tires mean more traction, stressing things like the halfhafts or companion flanges and so on, and that means upgrade of components. 4. Tires "fully" filling flares raises the question of suspension travel... rates, damping and so on. Too much travel and the tires will rub (or even shred). Not enough, and the ride is harsh, or even worse, the orientation of the tire contact patch with respect to the pavement is bad. Maybe good aesthetic fit results, unfortunately, in poor traction. 5. Depending on year of the S30, a stock suspension tends to be "jacked up". To lower the car entails its own set of issues... cut springs, coilovers, worry about bumpsteer in the front and bad halfhaft droop angles in the rear. The stock height might makes these issues earier, but then, what of the aesthetics? 6. It seems to be wiser to take an incremental approach, changing a few things first, reassessing and revising as needed. But some of the proposed changes, such as going to 5-lug, are big and risky leaps. So we're liable to spend lots of money on an experimental dead-end that weighs more, works badly and isn't aesthetically all that appealing... the price of learning!

Doubtless AME are knowledgeable people, but most of their market is going to be muscle car restomods, whose aim is to ride well, handle lots of power, and look good. Road racing is probably not their market, and indeed, it is unlikely that they have any road-racing entries of note. Thus they are probably doing a cost-benefit calculation when deciding to what extent to field abstruse questions related to handling. Well, that, and probably some worry about trade-secrets too. As to questions about track width and wheel fitment and so forth, one supposes that details on the order of 1/2" would have to be worked-out once the chassis is installed. Such level of accuracy would be too hard to predict, if for no other reason than the variability of the Z unibody and how it would be welded to the chassis. I would expect several iterations of wheel fitment and other such details, unfortunately likely causing revision of orders of costly parts. This is the downside of a large leap forward in the construction saga, vs. steady (but frustrating!) incrementalism. Several of us have followed the trusty JTR V8 swap-book's recommendation to move the front lower control arms ipick-up point in the K-member outboard by around 1/2" each (or was it 1/4" each? I forget now). That results in a slightly larger front track width. I have driven the car with this mod casually, in brief spurts, but can not report with any rigor as to how handling-feel has changed, or whether anything has convincingly improved or gotten worse.

After likewise >20 years of pondering the pros/cons, one concludes that there’s no comprehensive or optimal “right answer”. Any compelling plan can easily be assailed by an even more compelling counter-plan. Meanwhile, time ticks. Merely old cars become venerable classics (or rust heaps), and our own youth spills into middle-age and beyond. Eventually we just want to be done, to show progress and to have something definitive, even if it fails by whatever criteria to be “optimal”. That said, the quandary with any of these comprehensive chassis-kits is the labor and cost of grafting them into the Datsun unibody. A roll-cage, or more properly a tube chassis that is welded into the Datsun unibody, is more trouble to engineer, relative to a ready-engineered ladder-bar frame… but it is a more natural fit. Also, to really get the torsional rigidity that some people desire (or some applications demand?), there are all sorts of tubes to be welded onto the ladder bar. There are alternative ready-built tub-chassis space frames, but again, it’s unclear that this is “optimal” either. The ready-built ladder frame also has the suspension and brakes worked out… not a minor thing, for those of us with radical power-increases and concerns, again over 20+ years, for how to put the power to the pavement. Is the AME frame pre-welded – I mean, does it come ready-built, as on AME’s web page? Or is there the frenetic exercise of getting all those bits aligned, tacked and welded-up?

Yup, it's that time of year again! HybridZ is officially 22, which makes it what - a fresh college graduate? Time to enter the workforce? OK, informal poll: who here has been working on THE SAME CAR for 22+ years, and the vehicle still isn't road-worthy?

12 years later, a (dare I say it?) perennially interesting topic! As was asked earlier in the thread, a bit of confusion: why exactly merge the Armada and Z32 parts, instead of just going all-Armada? Oh, and the appeal of doing so: that 2.94 ratio, which is numerically smaller than anything that I've been able to find in the Ford 8.8" series, that being the most obvious competitor today. Mounting the differential-housing is presumably an exercise in domestic-engineering (or somebody's kit). And the half-shafts can presumably be shortened or otherwise modified by a competent shop. The bigger quesion is what to do at the stub axles and companion flanges... that is, how to replace the factory Datsun stuff with components of strength comparable to that of the Armada.

Chiming-in with a bit of an obvious question here... Some of us are pretty keen on replacing the differential, half-shafts, companion flanges and stub axles. But not necessarily the Chapman struts... especially if we've gone through the trouble of replacing spindle pins and sourcing that most elusive of animals, namely straight/true control arms and Chapman struts (many had the uprights welded askance). That being so, is there any possibility of replacing the aforementioned driveline parts, but fitting them into the factory Chapman struts? Or do the struts have to go?

Not exactly qualified to offer "valuable insight" here, but what about overall tuning (engine and engine management, wheel alignment, ride-height, brake bias,...)? The ingredients-list is already breathtakingly impressive, but how well does everything work together?

Miatas are fun, and contrary to popular prejudice, they succeed admirably as daily drivers, assuming that one doesn't have kids or voluminous possessions to lug around. But they just don't have the level of power that I'd consider to be necessary even for comparatively sedate urban driving. This is spoken as a guy who's daily-driven first-generation Miatas for nearly a dozen years. Worse yet, Miatas don't lend themselves to engine swaps, the way that Zs do. They're well-optimized for their stock engines. Small engine compartments and frail chasses require substantial creativity to be workable with a strong swapped engine. Yes, it's been done successfully before, and I have have the utmost respect for those who've done say an LS V8 swap into an NA Miata (and would love to buy such a car turnkey!). It's hard... much harder than in an S30 Z. There's really no such thing as a JTR Chevy V8 swap-book for Miatas. Ziptie, you make an excellent point about having to sell cars if lacking the resources to store them! Recently I sold my house... a sprawling place in the country, where non-running cars could be warehoused out of the prying eyes of municipal officials, neighbors, HOAs or other critics. Now living in an apartment, with only curbside parking on the street, the capacity to enjoy a hobby-car is much diminished. It's an unheralded rule of the car hobby... we first have to solve our real-estate problem, meaning typically buying a suitable single-family house in the suburbs, before delving deeply into the car-side. In my new locale, such a house is $1M and up. So it would be literally cheaper to buy an AMG Mercedes or Audi RS7 or something like that, than to attempt to build a V8 Datsun. Ironic, no? Prices for Datsuns are indeed rising rapidly, but we should also consider, that even for a $20K car, the real cost will be the engineering and the modifications and the testing, to get it right. Experimenting with welding this-and-that, and buying the equipment, and throwing-out badly done parts, and so on... that is going to be many tens of thousands of dollars, whether we start with a $2000 beater or a $20K garage-find. Good luck with the next chapter in your venture!

7 months later, perhaps it's time for an update. ATF and acetone poured into the spark-plug holes, plus some burly men pushing on the car in-gear, have successfully dislodged the crankshaft from its rust-encased slumber. Fresh spark plugs and gasoline, not to mention starting-fluid, awoke the engine, eventually settlingly into half-acceptable slumber. Now the machine is in the trusty hands of my trusty mechanic-buddy... apartment living does that to one... and besides, sometimes the ministrations of a professional mean the difference between wailing and grinning. Latest photo enclosed. A casual search on suspension-options somehow led me to other engine-setback cars, and this thread: https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/107471-recessed-engine-mounting-into-the-firewall/page/2/#comments . That thread ended 8 years ago. Why so few cars, with aggressive firewall surgery, despite such surfeit of impressive tube-chassis cars, wild suspension mods, and subtle engineering? Next step is to resurrect the stock brakes, and to install tires from the 21st century.

Sent a PM, wondering about availabilty.

That's my concern as well. My engine "probably" (not dyno tuned) makes around 450 hp, but it's all about low-end torque (461 cubic inches). The power level is quite a bit less than that of many of our forced-induction heroes, and so, perhaps zealotry about best-strongest-baddest driveline components would for my case be more posturing than prudence. But... the shock of that torque, coming at low rpm and part-throttle...?

This thread is one the top entries when searching for "280Z rear 5-lug conversion", and that prompted a bump... * As of this writing, the Z-car-depot site looks the most promising. Checquered Flag is a placeholder website, and the link posted earlier in this thread, is dead. The Modern Motorsports domain is for sale. And the Whitehead thread is getting more and more desperate. * There's also this: https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/128217-ford-super-88-irs-swap-thread-rear-brakes-too/#comments . But I'm not sure how much of that is applicable if the aim is to retain the R200, and only to replace the half-shafts, stub axles and companion flanges. * Any updates on the heavy-and-costly option mentioned above?

Please clarify: * Is this a one-off sale of a product that somebody has had in his/her garage for a while (so, a classifieds-ad)? * Or is this a new product, developed as an alternative to the existing retail offerings? * If it's a new product, what are its advantages over the usual competition (Silvermine, Arizona Z-car, Techno Toy,...)?

Its interesting that you fellows have a positive impression of the Miata seats. My daily driver is a 1991 Miata, and while the seats are functional, they aren't exactly the highlight of the car. In the Miata community, tossing the stock seats and replacing them with something aftermarket, is a common practice... first for more support, and second to save weight. Yet another alternative is the "surfboard" (high back) seats from the NB2 Miata.

Any thoughts on doing something like this, with a classical Ford 9"?

Question about gear ratios for the 8.8 rear... earlier in this thread, one of the posters mentioned a Top Loader transmission. That has 1:1 highest gear, correct? Meanwhile, I run a Doug Nash 5-speed... also 1:1 5th gear... but a pretty deep 1st gear. To match such transmissions, the preferred rear-end ratio would therefore be numerically small... 2.73, or even lower. But the numerically lowest ratio that we saw in this thread, mentioned for the 8.8", is 3.15. That's still too high. Is anything lower available?

Resurrecting this thread, for the following reasons and inquiries: 1. Did the original poster, now a "guest", make any progress? 2. Did Jmortensen, five years after 5 years after 5 years, reach his goals? 3. 10 years after my own posting in this thread, did I make any progress (answer: not yet, but "finally" I'm getting serious). 4. Why is the newest thread in this subforum, 5 years old? Aren't there any Datsun-related motorsports events worth mentioning? Or is this the wrong environment for such discussions?

Just saw this thread. The original poster's wheels are 14x6, correct? Here is a photo of 14x7 "Western Turbine" wheels. They fit a stock -suspension 280Z, with about 3/4" gap between the outermost portion of the spring perch, and the innermost extent of the wheel lip or rubber. For the eagle-eyed, these are Pete Paraska's wheels, from >20 years ago... and yes, the "original" tires. My plan is to replace the tires with Toyo Proxes R888, 225/50R14. These look to be the last "meaty" tires available in 14" diameter, which are even remotely suitable for the occasional sparing jaunt down the street.

Yes, I remember that Rota buy; it was quite the extravaganza. But weren't those wheels a bit on the... heavy side? That at least was my sentiment at the time. So I searched for alternatives... Konig, CCW, Enkei, XXR, and a dozen others. None had the magic combination of backspacing (or offset), bolt circle diameter, hub diameter and width. Weld wheels shows an example for a 280Z, here: https://www.weldwheels.com/gallery/fire-orange-1972-datsun-240z-weld-s77-forged-wheels/ . But if we look closely, we see 5 lugs. Perhaps, at $800/wheel, they'd be willing to drill for 4 lugs? As for the 16x9, the usual questions: 1. Do you have coilovers? 2. If you affix flares, would you also cut/weld the fender?

Primaz, you're quite right about the relative abundance of 16" tire choices, over 15". This seems to be becoming even more of an issue with each successive passing year. Recently I sold some parts to a fellow who appeared in a Honda minivan... the usual trappings of family-life in the back...strollers, toys, grocery bags filled with various stuff. But the minivan was sporting 19" wheels, with 245-50 tires! They actually looked like Panasports... only giant-ones. Thus about tires. But what of wheels? Spending some idle hours in the wilds of the internet, looking at wheels in 16x8, 0 offset, 4x114.4, with 73.1 hubs, I found... precious little. Spdrcr's choice (see for example here: https://jr-wheels.com/category/jr19, or here: https://basewheels.com/62877-jr-wheels-jr19-wheels-flat-black-16-inch-8j-et0-4x100-114-3) was a rarity, hitting all of the requirements. As for JR-brand wheel-weight, this pdf: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/files-2208/1528618050_JR20weights202B20lip20sizes.pdf is a nice compendium, but is missing info specifically on the JR19-model. The JR11 model is similar, from which we can guess a weight of 7.8 kg, or 17.2 lb... not light, but not heinous either. Then again, Tire Rack lists a BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 tire in 245/50ZR16, as 27 pounds. So for a wheel-tire combo, some 60% of the weight (or more) is the tire. Perhaps it's dumb (beyond a certain point) to cluck and fuss over the weight of the wheel? Edit: 245/45-16 tires look to be a solid 5 lb lighter than 245/50-16!

Bumping this thread, first to inquire as to whether the original poster has made a purchase and has results to report, and second to note that the link that I posted in March, now seems to be dead. That is, 15" tire choices have dwindled even further. The largest (widest) for my purposes, that is currently available, seems to be this one: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAjwmeiIBhA6EiwA-uaeFZorYZPfqBgMhIOxDF64xOmrK1xyQKiFDPcbf6Bu1BaWu53B4_p7zRoCt94QAvD_BwE&tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R888R&partnum=35WR5R888R&GCID=C13674x012-tire&KEYWORD=tires.jsp_Toyo_Proxes+R888R_Tire&code=yes&ef_id=CjwKCAjwmeiIBhA6EiwA-uaeFZorYZPfqBgMhIOxDF64xOmrK1xyQKiFDPcbf6Bu1BaWu53B4_p7zRoCt94QAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!72322456933!!!g!99873502813!&gclsrc=aw.ds . These are 235/50 R15 Toyo Proxes.

According to this site: https://www.wheeltech360.com/ROTA-Wheel-Kyusha-15x8-4x11430mm-73mm-Hub_p_136.html , the Rota Kyusha 15x8 in 4x114.3 weigh 16.6 pounds. Not outrageous, but a bit on the heavy-side. A search for 15x8 wheels in suitable offset (+0; or was that -0? I'm so confused!!!) shows that many weigh around 16 pounds. Some months (years?) ago, I had a thread on Vors wheels (https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/132345-vors-wheels-specifically-tr3-opinions/), which were 2-3 pounds lighter. Next question is tires. As expected, choices in 15" are... limited. There's an OK selection in 225/50-15, but anything wider gets rare. Not having overdrive on my 5-speed, I'd really prefer a taller (and wider? maybe) tire. Options dwindle... it's not 1994 anymore. Darn. Options greatly increase if we go to 16" wheel diameter. But unfortunately tire weight (not to mention wheel weight) jumps... typical 225/50-15 tires goes from ~23 lb each, to ~29 lb. But perhaps I'm obsessing over the wrong thing?

While of course I can't speak for Fusion (or others), the rationale behind 5-lugs is that it allows for use of the standard drag-racing wheel choices, especially in 15" diameter. If easier/cheaper alternatives are forthcoming, then of course it would be silly to insist on an upgrade merely for upgrade's sake! But in my experience - broad, but shallow and unsophisticated - to find decently light/strong wheels in 15x8 in 4x114.3 has been problematic, to put it mildly. Noll - your photos are intriguing indeed. What wheels to you use, and where did you find them? What size are they, and how much do they weigh? Not to hijack Fusion's thread, but my vantage point is that of a car that's been sitting for decades. The tires and probably the brake-pads/shoes date from the Reagan administration. Now, attempting a return to serviceability, would be less daunting, if the task could be done incrementally. Fusion's question about old-school brake solutions tickled an itch.

The big challenge is not in making one or another individual choice, of this brake-kit or that, but in having the entire combination work as a system... brakes, wheel/tires, suspension and drivetrain. Larger brake rotors mean larger wheels, which often means conversion to 5-lug and/or the coilover mod to accept larger backspacing. 5-lugs means, in the rear, new stub axles, and that likely leads to new half-shafts and so on. The project snowballs. There is no obvious way to change one set of components, leaving the rest alone, without glaringly deleterious effects, like the rear brakes locking up first. Meanwhile, these various "upgrades" aren't necessarily useful for the street, but they are heavier, and thus sap acceleration. Should we just stay with stock components? Maybe, but how to find suitable tires for original rims? And what of brake components that are leaky, rusted, frozen? Is it really all that sensible to do a complete shop-manual-spec restoration, on 50 year old components? There doesn't seem to be a good solution. Thus the dilemma!

Remove the valve covers and inspect the rockers and pushrods. The latest malady sounds like what happens with a "wiped" flat tappet cam and bent pushrods. Also manually turn the crank-bolt and check that the valves are opening correctly (that whole 18436572 firing-order thing). Re-do the "quarter turn trick" if it's a hydraulic cam, and re-set the lash if it's a mechanical cam. It's conceivable that the distributor was installed 180 degrees backwards, so to speak. That is, spark hits the #1 piston as it's coming up on the... exhaust stroke, instead of the intake stroke.