Derek Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) Got the VTC cams back from Schneider so I was able to mess around a bit wit the upper chain. Machining the center out of a stock Honda exhaust gear. Holy bajezas was that thing hard. I had to anneal the center to make any headway through it. Came out great though. Action shot. Looks promising but there is a lot left to do. Best part is my stuff is always S/N001 Edited April 28, 2018 by Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) On 3/26/2018 at 3:57 AM, softopz said: Exceptional work as always. Derek your getting famous.... the other day someone tells me to swap more like slap a K series head he said its been done! This is an inside joke between Peter McDonnell and me as well , "Just slap a K-Series Honda head on there, it's a bolt on deal." As to a comment above about 'waiting for public release'--buck up the money, it's IN public release! First production PALLET of heads has already been done! The ENTIRE premise of using the printed sand cores was that people can specify minor changes to tailor to their build and get a head close AS-CAST rather than spending thousands of dollars having someone port a one-off head. It took Peter 4 1/2 hours PER intake port to get them flowing at the rate of what this head flows after an 80-Grit flapper wheel setup. Originally the main thing conceptualized as changing was the port configuration. This size is perfect for a mild 3.5, but may be large for 3.0...and turbos may need something else. There was a hope that we could get these out to various CNC suppliers, and then do close replication of the ports as-cast so extra work was not necessary. The goal being that the water side wall thickness was maintained in ALL configurations so ALL heads could be ported to 'Ültimate Spec' if the owner desired. When you consider the cost of new rocker arms now running over $100 each, the cost for the entire valve train from a Honda Parts Department is cost competitive. The only cost you really have in using this head over a pro built L-Head is the casting, cams, and one timing set! For what you get in terms of flow increases...that price is not really objectionable. Plus, compared to the other DOHC Option...your choice of cams both symetrical and asymetric is unlimited due to proper cam and rocker geometry...with the other guys, you run what you got and that's it. No increases! Edited May 7, 2018 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Wow! mindblowing For us that hasn't followed the 50 pages in this thread, is it possible to get a 3-4 sentence summary regarding progess, cost and expected use case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Hi blog link http://www.datsunworks.com/Blog/ FAQ http://www.datsunworks.com/Blog/faq-for-twin-cam-cylinder-head/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Derek said: Hi blog link http://www.datsunworks.com/Blog/ FAQ http://www.datsunworks.com/Blog/faq-for-twin-cam-cylinder-head/ Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 5 hours ago, turbogrill said: For us that hasn't followed the 50 pages in this thread, is it possible to get a 3-4 sentence summary regarding progess, cost and expected use case? Not sure this is a Champcar legal head, but I won't protest you if you run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, zack_280 said: Not sure this is a Champcar legal head, but I won't protest you if you run it. LOL, if it performs as expected, I guarantee you someone (everyone) without one will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 8 hours ago, zack_280 said: Not sure this is a Champcar legal head, but I won't protest you if you run it. The rules are clear, non-OE cylinder head is 100pts. If Derek gives me one for free I would be happy to stress it for him. It would involve irresponsible drivers and ziptie loving mechanics...and somehow beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 6 hours ago, turbogrill said: happy to stress it for him I already have all the stress I can take right now. Thanks anyway:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garage_junkie Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 On 3/27/2018 at 6:42 AM, Derek said: Owner of V3 sent me an update picture. Pretty freaking cool if you ask me. I checked the 3D model and tilted the amount they did the intake side of the water jacket is just below the outlet so hopefully there won't be any steam pocket issues. Snifff....I'm so proud:) I wish I would have loved the ladder out of the background 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Welcome! Those headers look like a tight fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garage_junkie Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 The pic's make it look closer that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 VCT Progress! So slowly but surely I have been chipping away at making the VCT fit in the available space. What a freaking PIA. The problem with timing chains is you are constrained distance wise by the pitch of the chain and the adjustment can be a bit coarse. Multiply that by two and you can see how it can get tricky. I model things the best I can in 3D but when it comes to something like this I find a hands on approach leads to a more satisfactory result. Machined of the small gear from the KA24 idler. I'm using a 5C expanding mandrel that I machined to fit. Test fitting the Honda exhaust cam gear that I machined previously. Happy with the fit for sure. Quick test fit with the first idler sub plate. Looks good but I know from experience that there is a really long road from this point to the final fitting. Here are the finalish mockup sub plates for the idler gear and the tensioner arm pivot. I may move the idler up another .010" but I haven't decided. I do the majority of my prototyping in plastic. Easier to work with than aluminum and a lot cheaper. The idler plate will be steel and the pivot plate will be aluminum. Upper tensioner mount. The semi finished layout. Upper tensioner is from a Mazda 626. Hybridz member Tioga turned me on to this one . I reshaped the contact shoe a bit and slapped it on there. It is a ratcheting style. They can be problematic if the lobe design on the cams are crappy. The constant pumping on the chain can break the pawls. I'm making the assumption at this point the Schneiders lobe design is a lot better than Cranes and won't be a problem. I had to reshape the contact shoe and will probably work it some more if I stick with it. Tight fit but the bottom line is....It fits. Which is a good thing since I committed to the cams before I knew for sure. Unfortunately I can't access the VCT oil ports on the head because the idler gear is covering them but I already designed a manifold as a work around. So if the pictures make it look like this was a walk in the park here is a shot of the different versions of the sub plates I made to get the relationship between all those moving components the way I wanted them as well as fitting in the space I had to work with. I picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garage_junkie Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Nice 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Derek, I came to the L6 forum looking for tips on updating an L28 during rebuild and what did I find? THIS! This is amazing, I just read all 50 pages of this, and this has been a fantastic thread. I'll definitely keep watching. The 3D sand printing is intriguing, and seems to have great resolution. You know I love 3D printing, and I understand what a big job this has been The Fact that v1 lasted a good long time was great! I look forward to hearing how V2 and V3 (+VTC) will work out. you've got a lot of great partners that realize how amazing this is. I won't be able to afford one of these for some time, if ever, but I would bet they'll hold their value well! Hopefully next time I'm in FL I can come by and see your shop! Question though, How did you figure the cam profile for 6 cylinders vs the Honda 4cy? Is it based on any existing L6 cam, or fully custom, derived from L28 cams? I will keep watching this thread and lurk your Datsunworks site. Amazing work! Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Hi Phar 2 hours ago, Pharaohabq said: and what did I find? THIS! Took you long enough:) 2 hours ago, Pharaohabq said: The 3D sand printing is intriguing, and seems to have great resolution It truly is an amazing process. It opens up so many things to be produced that would not have been practical before. 2 hours ago, Pharaohabq said: Question though, How did you figure the cam profile for 6 cylinders vs the Honda 4cy? Is it based on any existing L6 cam, or fully custom, derived from L28 cams? The profile that I machine into the cams are oversized based on a Schneider profile. At that point any cam grinder with a Honda profile can finish them off. The lobe is large enough for most builds. It's S7 which means it's through hardened so you are not restricted by case thickness. 2 hours ago, Pharaohabq said: I will keep watching this thread and lurk your Datsunworks site Yea the VCT should be pretty interesting. I'm starting a pool for how many valves I bend before I get it all sorted:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) The owner of S/N005 sent me this video. Xtreme Cylinder Heads CNC porting. I have no idea why the video is giant. I uploaded it directly to the post Video.MOV Edited June 1, 2018 by Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Is this a v2 or v3 head? Robello not doing the build on the head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 hours ago, texis30O said: Is this a v2 or v3 head? Robello not doing the build on the head? This is a production head or V4. I now refer to the production heads by their serial number. S/N005 is being assembled buy the person who bought it. He chose Xtreme to do the head work and so far I think he chose wisely. They take raw Porsche head castings and bring them all the way to a finished product so I felt comfortable with them doing the work. They also have experience with the K20. I'm hoping they become an option for people who can't wait on Rebello or like S/N005 want's to do their own build. I'm assuming they will flow the head so they will have good data for people that want to go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/2/2018 at 5:46 AM, Derek said: This is a production head or V4. I now refer to the production heads by their serial number. S/N005 is being assembled buy the person who bought it. He chose Xtreme to do the head work and so far I think he chose wisely. They take raw Porsche head castings and bring them all the way to a finished product so I felt comfortable with them doing the work. They also have experience with the K20. I'm hoping they become an option for people who can't wait on Rebello or like S/N005 want's to do their own build. I'm assuming they will flow the head so they will have good data for people that want to go that route. This is very interesting.....very.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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