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240mph 240z?


Jonas240z

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Nic-rebel said

BTW, it's not that hard to beat a Ferrari, I kept in front of one until 70MPH when I started to back off when I was in my truck. The Ferrari was a new Modena.

 

Wow, that's amazing considering tht the Modena can reach 60mph in 4 sec, 1/4mile in 12.8 sec, top speed of over 180. has been rated as having the best suspension in the world by road and track and many others and has been judged to be the best sports car in the world by too many to count. Perhaps Schumacher should buy your truck :wink:

Come on man, you can certainly build an engine to beat a ferrari in the 1/4 mile (not on the track however, bearing a driver of equal skill). But to say that it is easy and that you truck beat one is too much day dreaming for me to let it go. To beat a car, you need a driver in it. I beat mustangs in my first 1981 honda accord (an old old rusted green one with rust and 75hp), but I can't say with a straight face that my accord easilly beats a 5.0 mustang (the drivers were idiots), heck I even once beat a corvett in my litlle old green machine 8) (a much more memorable event then when a guy a brown chevy celebrity whipped me and my accord :( ). BTW what kind of truck is this a moded cyclone (that can certainly boogie, as long as its in a straight line) or a ford F150?

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Guest Nic-Rebel450CA

There are a number of people on this forum that could beat one right now...

 

I'm not saying that it is easy to make any vehicle put away a ferrari just because I kept up with one in my truck until 70, of course driver skill has a lot to do with it and a good driver in the ferrari could have pulled away sooner. I am simply stating that you dont have to have 900 HP and bonneville gears to do so, and those kind of gears would be likely to hurt you. (Why do you think the Modena has a top speed of over 183mph but can do the quarter in 12.6 seconds? Change those gears some and the Ferrari will fly through the quarter.)

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Let me let you in on a little known secret...

 

Your Z can be made pretty darned stable to withstand some pretty impressive speeds. I've had radar verification that I hit 168MPH in my Yellow Z back in 1995. I also hit in the 150s with the T56 equipped 383 stroker white Z. In both cases I used a whale tail and lowered stance, front spoiler, and rocker panels on one of the cars, as well as stiff springs and some very crude methods in the suspension department (Long before I ever thought about making control arms for myself or others...). Also, these were short bursts at the end of a 3mile stretch of road with no access from other vehicles or pedestrians.

 

It can be done, but it will take a toll on the car. I cracked the whale tails on both cars at the seem with the hatch, and one car (Yellow car) had cracks in the paint at the rear hatch seam and the a pillar joints.

 

I personally think a salt flats car can be made IF engineered properly... It will take time, money and serious engineering to keep a sustained and measurable pace on a sanctioned course.

 

Good luck... Maybe I'll see you out there...

Mike 8)

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Guest Nic-Rebel450CA

Here is a gearset that would probably work and not be too horrible on the street:

Gear-Ratio-Speed at 8000 RPM

1st 4.0 56MPH

2nd 2.6 87MPH

3rd 1.8 126MPH

4th 1.3 174MPH

5th 0.8 282MPH

Final 2.6

 

That will put you (in theory) at 240 mph at about 6800 rpm in 5th gear. You could go with a higher final drive and a double over-drive, except, I dont think you are going to find a double overdrive that would hold up under even half that abuse. The overdrive may not even hold up, but that is why I went with a 0.8.

 

For aeros you would probably want to skin the whole underside of the car, and probably consider an Indy style wing to bolt on to the front subframe (if you didnt want it on there all of the time).

 

Here is something else to play with:

http://ce597n.www.ecn.purdue.edu/CE597N/1997F/students/derek.r.jamieson.1/project/calculations/calcs.cgi?weight=2800&k1=0.010&k2=0.00125&velocity=240&farea=18&theta=0

Of course, you would need to find more precise values..

Home page is here.

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In true Hybrid spirit, go for it! Sometimes it's the journey more than the destination that is fullfilling. My old Datsuns have provided me a "rolling classroom" for 25 years with many hours of learning and fun at a very reasonable cost. I never have had a truely finished project. Soon as it's finished I would drive it for 10K miles then disassemble and upgrade again based on what I learned. FUN FUN FUN. I've heard it said new cars have advanced significantly, but their fun factor has not.

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The only way you'll ever see that kind of speed in a z is if you drive it out the cargo hold of an airbus at 20,000 feet.

 

O.K, so maybe I'me exagerating. 6,000 feet should be high enough.

 

Let me know when you are making the drop.

 

Edit: Damn, someone already made this joke. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but after dumping years of effort and thousands of dollars into this project, you might feel like driving it out of an airplane. Don't say I didn't warn you.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SilverPhoenix48
Won't happen - terminal velocity in free fall is about 140 mph so car would very rapidly decellerate to that speed once clear of the plane.

they actually tested out the terminal velocity of the datsun Z? lol, I know the terminal velocity of the average human is 200-250mph, to get the datsun's just take its drag coefficient and figure it all out, this is of course if the Z falls in a nose dive fashion lol.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest BigWhyteDude

hey corZette that sounds like quite i story, would love to hear about it:)

 

makes me think maybe a H.A.L.O jump??????

 

Andrew

 

EDIT: Wow, what was i smoking that night? Sorry for the momentary laps in intelegence. :?

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  • 4 months later...

We need to distinguish between (A) “it can be done†and (B) “it’s worth doingâ€. A – yes. B – probably not.

 

The 240-280Z has relatively high drag and large positive lift because, perhaps contrary to intuition, it has “sharp edges†(hood lip, headlight scoops, others places) where it shouldn’t and smooth inclined surfaces (rear hatch, rocker panels) where it shouldn’t. So, it’s 0 for 2. Pleasing to the eye does not mean pleasing to the wind! Simple experiments with a scale-model Z reveal extensive regions of flow separation – meaning, high drag.

 

Consider that some hot rods based on Model-T and Model-A Fords are running in the low 200’s at Bonneville. So it can be done. But keep in mind how much modification was required to get there.

 

The record-holding 2+2 260 Z was built to adhere to very stringent class rules. This makes the guy’s achievement all the more impressive. But, relax those rules, and the same car could go much faster. So, again: it can be done. But is it worth it?

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"without going overboard on the money issue"

Well, then you have limited yourself, and the budget given will not get you close.

Cubic horsepower is what you will need, and with the aerodynamics of an S30, even with a G-Nose and full belly pan, you will need a lot more than 700 hp to go 240mph.

I crew on the LSR Z-Car John C mentioned, and if you think you can go 240mph, I welcome you to come run at Bonneville. Current C-BMS records hover in the 222mph area, with around 1100hp in a current generation Skyline R34 which arguably has a few more aerodynamic advantages than the Brick we all love.

I will make the same gentleman's bet with you: you do it in a STREETABLE vehicle, and I will pay you $1.

I hope you the best, but it's an unreasonable goal. I will posit, you will not achieve it.

 

Oh, and as an aside, the car, with 3.36 gears ran 13.00 the first time we rant it at Carlsbad. Started the day at 13.80, and got it to 13.08 byt he end of the day varying the launch technique. That was with the four-barrel manifold on it. I would think the car woudl do much better if it was not in street radials and running a clutch-flywheel assembly with a total weight of about 10#....

Yeahy, if the car was run with some wrinklewalls and a heavy flywheel, it think we would suprise many people driving their trucks thinking they would spank a Bonneville Record holder....even without using the 5.36 gearset to maximise 1/4 mile acceleration...

 

Hell, my goals are more realistic: 205mph....

You can say the rules you can ignore the rules, but my experience says you can not ignore the rules and laws of physics...

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Body: Costume Wide body

 

If your going for those speeds, a wide body is a NO, NO.

 

Go for a modified G-nose, minimal opening in the front for cooling air, no mirrors, no drip-rails, molded or no bumpers, no wipers, side window flush with the body, no sidemarkers, extended rear-end, flat underside, small tires, a lot of engine, right gearing, a long enough straight and a driver that's not afraid of dying while trying this...

 

...and you might reach around 220-230 mph!

 

 

Otherwise, put a rocket in it and get the ride of your life... and some nice words on your gravestone!

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"small tires"

Nope....

Universally, the technique to reach speeds is to run a taller tire to keep more efficient gear ratios in teh transmission and rearend.

An overdrive sucks horsepower and strains the transmission far more than necessary that larger tires running a 1:1 final ratio.

 

I have seen large SemiTruck rims tucked into the back of the fenderwells on MP (Modified Pickup) running diesels.

 

even with the mods posited for the S30 body, someone here is missing the math on the requirement for horsepower. The ammount needed to go from 170 to 190 is more by a POWER of the number, not simply a multiple! BTW, Andy's car does not have mirrors, does not have wipers, but does (due to class rules) have drip rails. There is not much more we can do aerodynamically and have it still resemble a Z. I mean, we are not going to go Stringfellow on it and stretch the front end 14 feet in front of the cowl! (Yes, there is a Z like that!).

 

Best case scenario (and the wide-body is no the way to go) is that an S30 MAY get dow to PERHAPS a .32 Cd, with a general frontal area of around 22 or 23 CuFt... I am sure there is an engineer here who can do the math on that. I know there was a post a ZC.C done by ZBoy that posted speeds and horsepower requirements that mirrored our actual experiences at Bonneville.

 

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145523&t=145092#reply_145523

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145339&t=145092

 

I would say MAYBE 200, and that would be a BIG goal, but unless you are running some NHRA-Class bullet in that baby, making over 1000hp, you are sadly underestimating what it takes to break into the Red Jacket Club. ESPECIALLY in an S30!

 

If you can do it, my hat's off to you, but lay in a big supply of $$$, because your ENGINE is going to cost that much IMHO!

 

17_24_0220x.JPG

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My friends 1980 280ZX did 226MPH at Bonneville in 1991. He also ran a 78 Z back in about 1989 that went 188MPH. The 78 had a g-nose.

 

Here's the car that went 226mph at Bonneville with a turbo L28. He blew a tire on the return run so the record went to Japanese team running a 300ZXTT at 222mph. The record still stands today. He's offered to loan me the car to take back to Bonneville but I really can't afford two Z projects at the same time. If I ever get to a stopping point on my 77 I'm might give it a try.

 

bonnzx.jpg

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See.. Im with the aerodynamics guys.. At those speeds, you;d need a very well enginiered/thought out under body or it would start to act like an airfoil.. Im picturing the rear end lifting up at 240MPH and loosing traction.. wow.. a spin at those speeds would be crazy..

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Guest gtmattz
Im picturing the rear end lifting up at 240MPH and loosing traction.. wow.. a spin at those speeds would be crazy..

 

crazy?? i think the word 'deadly' would be more appropriate there lol.

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