Race Driving vs Street Driving

[johnc]

I recently got in an e-mail discussion with a potential customer and I was reminded how people who have only driven on the street don't realize that driving at 10/10s on a race track is nothing like what they are used to. A quote from Stirling Moss:

 

Few people outside racing can appreciate that race driving is not like driving on the road at all. A racing car is always in an attitude, never pointing directly fore-and-aft in its line of travel as a road car would be in normal motoring. The racing car is sliding, to some degree, nearly all the time, but to be quick the best drivers try to do the slides and drifts witht he least drag possible at moments when drag doesn't matter...

 

...Once a race driver presents [turns-in] a car to a corner its rather like throwing a dart - when it has left your hand you can't do a thing about its path. If you present the car accurately to a corner it will track through in a long drift on a virtually predestined trajectory. You can make tiny adjustments, but one you have presented it to the corner you can only adjust the trim, not make major changes of direction - not if you are driving the car as it should be.

 

I guess the highlighted part is what most road drivers don't understand about driving a car at its limit on a race track. When you come off the brakes and turn-in to a corner, where you are going to exit the corner (and in what attitude) is pre-ordained. If the car is at the limit, you can not lift off the throttle, you can only apply so much throttle, and you can only steer a very little bit. If it could be physically possible, a person standing next to your car as it passes through the corner could, with one hand, probably shove the car off the outside of track.

[jt1]

An excellent point I try to constantly emphasize to students; Once you get the turn in point and speed right, the amount of wheel input, and the rate of the wheel input.....the corner's done, it's time to think of getting on the throttle and the next corner. Anything else is just trying to correct not getting some of the previous stuff right.

 

jt

[Mikelly]

What I'm starting to find is that it's really hard discussing "driving" with anyone who hasn't been on a real race track. My little brother was in my shop last night changing the oil on his car. He has just installed a nitros kit on his 2002 Camaro and he was discussing how much faster the car is. It isn't like he was capable of driving 300WHP before the kit install. Explaining to him that the $800 he spent on that kit would have better been spent in suspension and brake mods was a waste of time. It isn't like the NAWZ kit can be experienced with these freezing temps we've been experiencing!

 

If you ask people how hard they drive their cars on the street, they will give you their perception that they are at nearly 10/10ths all the time. However, the first time you finally get them onto a closed course, you can see actual fear in their eyes. Perception is a funny thing. We want to think that we're "the man" behind the wheel. We all do. But the sad rality is we're not. 95% of us suck at driving.

 

I fully believe that there is a direct relationship between the excuses we hear about guys not going to the dyno and guys not going to the track. These are the same people who have laid seeds of embelishment along the way about: Their Skills as drivers (We all suck until we spend much time in a closed course environment with true professional drivers TEACHING us how to correct all our bad habits) and about the power output of their vehicles.

 

Knowledge is power. To me, it is better to know where I need to improve, and then work on it to become better, then to never try. I know I'm really sorely laking in late apex trail braking. I need to work on that to rotate the car quicker through those types of corners and I need an instructor in the car with me, because I'm doing something wrong. But I can't put it together without help... I need that assistance. Next time I'm at the track, I'll not be going it "solo". I want to learn. My goal isn't to become Mr. HPDE. I want to eventually go wheel to wheel racing in something like a spec miata class. And as much as I think I've learned over the years on the 5-7 closed courses I've been fortunate enough to be on, I know I've got a lot to learn when it comes to full green flag full course passing. HPDEs don't make a race car driver. But I'm willing to learn.

 

I think that is half the battle!

Mike

[Oleh]

^ that pretty much sums everything up. ^ good 2 cents.

[busmn280]

My own .02-I have been to two driving schools and have autox for several years. I thot I was going to be much better on the track than I really was. The best advice I got from the instructors and other more experienced students was this: put your pride aside and get as much instruction as you can.

[cygnusx1]

A good instructor makes all the difference. I consider myself to be a good street driver, as does my insurance co. My first track day was extremely exciting but I also realized how slow I actually was. Making the transition from street to track is no small adjustment. It was not until I had a good instructor this year at Watkins Glen 2005 ZCCA that I really got to understand how to pick up the pace.

 

I found this very interesting. I practiced Watkins Glen on my PC with a good driving simulator for about a month before going to the track. I was running consistent laps on the simulator as fast as I could possibly get. Then I went to the Glen and got a great instructor. I got many, many pointers from him about turn in, throttle positions, track out...for each corner. By the end of the day he was wishing I had a harness installed. When I returned home, I got back on the simulator and used all the pointers I learned at the track. Lo and behold, I shaved an easy 15 seconds off my previous laptimes on the simulator!

[JMortensen]

The big track is a lot harder to drive than autox IMHO. Autox penalizes for bad lines, but there is something about going 100+ miles an hour and seeing that turn coming up, and knowing that if you let off or brake too early you will lose time. That's the hardest part of the big track for me. Didn't help that I went to Buttonwillow the first couple times and they don't have any braking markers at all. Even trying to find a splotch in the pavement or a mark on the curbing can be tough there.

 

The difference to me between race driving and street driving is not letting off. When I started I could drive pretty fast and not scare myself too bad if I let off and coast into a braking zone, but if I keep my foot in it until the last second then get hard on the brakes the scare effect is tenfold. The closer you get to running out of road the more of a dart throw it becomes. I had overcome this bad habit at autox, but when I got on the big track I found myself doing the same thing again. Much harder to get past it when the speeds were doubled.

[Pop N Wood]

Good read

 

Mario Andretti once said that no one is a born driver. It can only be learned from experience.

[olie05]

...Once a race driver presents [turns-in] a car to a corner its rather like throwing a dart - when it has left your hand you can't do a thing about its path. If you present the car accurately to a corner it will track through in a long drift on a virtually predestined trajectory. You can make tiny adjustments, but one you have presented it to the corner you can only adjust the trim, not make major changes of direction - not if you are driving the car as it should be.

 

Just yesterday I went to a "track day" at the new track by Houston, Motorsports Ranch. Basically it was all the instructors from the lone star region PCA getting a chance to run the track for the upcomming PCA DE that was going to be held there. I got to ride around in a Lotus Elise, with a driver from Alara racing. That guy could drive! He was complaining, however, about how through the corner the car had too much porsche in it. After saying that, he started jerking the steering wheel in the middle of the corner towards the inside, and he would hold it for about a second, and the car wouldn't do anything. I guess it was the cars dynamics, like too much understeer or something, but the car would not rotate with the jerking of the wheel. (he made his point to me lol)

[randy 77zt]

i make it a point to invite somebody that talks alot of bs for a ride at a track day with me.they usually shut up after that.its also amazing how a group of suspension parts that you bought dont seem to work as a team at the track.my car is a compromise street/track car but it took 3 years of changes to get it right.when i get my intercooler welded up it will be some track time this spring.i miss it.

[v80z]

I can tell you that form my experience in amateur road racing that the majority of people out there are "Sunday Driving". Oh yeah they floor it down the straight sure. But most are running there cars at street rpm and very few are "throwing into the corners" When I first went to SCCA race school in Buccaneer division at Roebling Road I had ZERO experience and sufferred terribly the first day. We wnet to dinner that night at the local applebees and met and old racer there. My crew chief was making fun of my driving 1:32s at best on a 2 mile course, The old man looked at me and asked" What is your car like?" the chief explained that is was a fully prepped z to at least CP level if not GT2. The old man replied "G^D D!@@#T what do you want to do ? Live forever? AT that point I realized that driving on a closed course in a prepped car with all the safety and EMS around with all the traffic going in one direction is often much safer than driving a passenger car.

 

The next day I got in the car and strapped in. I started cursing at the top of my loungs and banging the wheel. I must have looked like a spaz but I am sure the instructors at the school have seen many such rituals from new racers trying to overcome the sinking dying anxiety before a reace session.

 

IT is all about overcoming your fear of death by impact or fire. Once that is resolved you are free to float your car at any attitude.

 

The last 2 sessions I was running 1:16s and 1:15s it was amazing. ONce you feel the muscle strain in your neck and the point and squirt effect, Once the corners come at you faster than you can react, Once the front straight is the only place you have time not to think, then you are starting to approach a real racing tempo.

 

Closed course racing is a language very few can speak. I only know a few words.

 

But when spoken well IT is as if you are walking 10ft above the ground. It is like Steve McQueen. "For a driver life is racing and the rest is waiting for the next chance" or something like that. There is no other substance device person or experience that I have encounterred that has made me feel the feeling like coming of a track after a race session. Can ya tell I love it?

 

Even with the experience I have I still suck at driving a race car. But when I get the new ride finished I will be able to practice more. This ride will be able to be driven on the street and the at HPDEs. The last one I only got to drive at race events and did not get enough seat time to get comfortable. I jumped in the deep end too early. This time will be different

[wigenOut-S30]

Very good read guys. I used to autoX quite a bit when I had my non turbo ZX and the course in pensacola was still open. I would really like to get on a road course in my turbo Z soon. I have a friend who can coach me and has in the past. He has a DSR and is pretty amazing.. set the track recored at little taladega and couple of other tracks.. But yes.. knowing you suck is about the best atitude you can go in as a new driver on a road course.. Just be willing to listen and learn from the instructors. Great thred guys..

[johnc]

I've done a lot of instructing too. And the students that have the most fun are the ones who show up knwoing they suck. Every minute of the day they see themselves getting better and better and some even picture themselves, at least for a few weeks after the event, as the next Senna.

 

The students that come in knowing they are the next Senna spend the next fews hours realizing they are the next Elmer Fudd and they spend the next weeks after the event knowing they are Elmer Fudd.

 

See a pattern here?

[mark]

I still remember my first few track days. One of my most memorable moments was when I realized about on the second or third event there really are corner workers out there. Spent too much time looking 6 ft in front of the car.

 

One of the best lines from an instructor was " you are dancing with a 2500 lb woman and you need to know how to lead with just you finger tips and toes. Still working on it.

 

Track days are the most relaxing thing that I do with my clothes on. (strange I know) I only think about what I'm doing and not about work etc,etc. Can't wait to get back out there.

 

Nothing like dancing with the fat lady thru the up hill esses at VIR at 100+. Occasionally I'll even get it close to being right.

[Cruez]

I am still awaiting my time to get out there..... and I want it BAD..

[zero]

so uhh... who in the northeast wants to teach a youngin' how to drive. I want to get my car on the track once I have it set up well enough that I trust it, but it is somewhat intimidating to go it alone. Anyone want to have me tag along. I dont even necessarily want to drive the first time I go. I would be more than happy to go and watch or ride as a passenger for a few weekends before turning a wheel on the track myself. I just wanna be out there with a fellow z'er and get a feel for it. So who wants to help a racing newbie.

[Mikelly]

Zero, I'd consider going down and hanging out with the guys at VIR whent eh THSCC is there in late February! They do it in conjunction with the TAR HEEL Zcar Club and they put on a hell of an event. It is great fun hanging out with the guys in the paddock and getting seat time with instructors.

 

If it all works out well, I'll be there with the Vette, holding out for a contract signature in early January!

Mike

[clarkspeed]

I read an interview that stuck with me about a year ago. I think it was with Sea-Bass, the Champ Car driver. He said if he missed the turn-in or apex by an inch, he would be off the road. Think about that level of committment and maintaining it.

 

Personally, I always found comparisons with golf. Hitting the turn-in, apex, and track-out "feels" like that perfect swing with a driver. In the groove. Like bowling 3 strikes in a row. Man+Machine=1. And you are always learning. Even Tiger Woods has a pro.

[rudypoochris]

I want to find the limits of my car (the ford explorer) and i want to learn how to drive fast. I know this car isn't exactly track material, obviously, but I want an enviorment where I can find out what the limit feels like, so I don't do something stupid like go over the limit on the road. Any ideas?

[katman]

I've done a lot of instructing too. And the students that have the most fun are the ones who show up knwoing they suck. Every minute of the day they see themselves getting better and better and some even picture themselves' date=' at least for a few weeks after the event, as the next Senna.

 

The students that come in knowing they are the next Senna spend the next fews hours realizing they are the next Elmer Fudd and they spend the next weeks after the event knowing they are Elmer Fudd.

 

See a pattern here?[/quote']

 

Well said. As an instructor I've noticed the same thing.

 

This is only remotely related- but when I hear some street car guy say "Yeah, I put my so-and-so on the car and now it handles like it's on rails!" I always want to say back - "everything handles like it's on rails when you're only driving it 7/10ths." The corollary to that is at 10.5/10ths on the race track they all handle like sh$t. Or you'll at least uncover it's weak link. Even the ones I build....

 

Bertil Roos always stresses looking very far ahead- this fits with what others have said in the thread about once you turn in you're committed pretty much to a line already, so looking at the apex does you no good. You shuold be looking at the exit and further. This takes students a while to get. Somebody mentioned spending their first day looking 6ft in front of the car- this is typical, everybody does the first time. I try to stress with my students a few things- 1. If you're scared you are driving way too fast for you. You will learn more and be better faster if you settle back and work on the line and situational awareness. I've been known to pull a student into the pits after every lap to talk and get them settled until they realize I'm not going to let them string any laps together until they're driving within their ability to see and process what's going on around them. 2. Threshold braking is the last thing to learn (this is especially hard to teach 911/930 drivers since those things will pop your eyeballs out under braking). Best to work on where you're supposed to be on the track, mid corner balance at the limit, and earliest possible throttle application for fastest exit. Charging the entry and getting all out of whack before the turn does nobody any good.

 

I've met very few amateur instructors that really knew how to teach. Yeah they might know how to drive fast, but being able to describe the traction circle to a student in such a manner that they feel it, see consistent progress, and have fun seems to be a rarity. Some clubs actually do a better job with this than SCCA from my experience.