Why POR-15 or Zero Rust?

[Pop N Wood]

I am about to put in a set of Bad Dog frame rails. Once done, I will need to paint them. I also have some minor surface rust in few spots, not to mention my newly fabricated cross members for the engine, transmission and diff.

 

My question is when is it a good idea to use some type of rust encapsulator like POR-15 or Zero Rust instead of just sanding everything down to clean metal and painting with an epoxy primer/top coat?

 

Both POR-15/Zero Rust say they want bare metal and no top coat. That works fine for black cross members. But is it really needed with new steel?

 

And for rust spots, it is not like I can do just the battery tray area with zero rust then paint the rest. Why not standard prime/paint there too?

[dsommer]

My experience is with POR-15.

 

If you're working with bare metal just use their etching chemical and then paint witht the POR-15. As opposed to regular paint POR-15 is very durable. I like to coat with POR-15 then go back over with matt finish spray for a toned down look. Example:

[S30TRBO]

I love POR-15!!

 

As far as your other rust if it's surface, knock the scale off close to smooth and POR-15 over it. I have never taken my parts down to bare metal before applying POR-15.

 

You can also put POR-15 in a spray gun and paint it on whatever pieces you want. I POR-15 my floors, trapezoids, frame rails and rockers. Any new sheet metal you put on you should POR-15 the insides before you install it. I would paint the inside of the Bad Dog frame rails with the POR-15 before you install them.

 

I went the expensive route and powder coated everything bolted underneath.

 

 

Before:

 

After:

 

Good Luck!!

[wigenOut-S30]

Por-15 seeps into the metal's pourus surface. It draws moisture out of the metal as it dries into the metal itself. So far I am really pleased with POR-15.

[Doc Hawk]

Is it true that each can is pretty much good for just a one-time use? I have no experience with it, but I was told by a dealer that once you open the can and close it again, it sets up and you can't get the lid back off. The dealer had no experience with it, either, so I wonder if they were just trying to sell me smaller quantity units.

[S30TRBO]

I take a plastic bag, cut it to hang over the top of the can. Put the bag on the opening and attach the lid on top. It makes it so you can take the lid off easier and will give you about a week. Plus you might have to stir or shake it before you take the lid off

[JMortensen]

Both POR-15/Zero Rust say they want bare metal and no top coat. That works fine for black cross members. But is it really needed with new steel?

You can top coat both of them. I know Zero Rust says that a top coat isn't required, and that's supposed to be a selling point. I seem to remember reading that the POR will chalk up if exposed to direct sunlight.

[heavy85]

Zero Rust does not seize the lid to the can but I found out the hard way that once the can is open it will start to harden in the can and make a mess later when you try to stir it up. Zero Rust seems to be easily scratch able so I'm questioning the durability to rock chips and such on the floors & fenderwells but I guess we'll see.

 

Cameron

[deja]

Is it true that each can is pretty much good for just a one-time use? I have no experience with it, but I was told by a dealer that once you open the can and close it again, it sets up and you can't get the lid back off. The dealer had no experience with it, either, so I wonder if they were just trying to sell me smaller quantity units.

 

Take some plastic wrap, push it into the can until it sits on top on the leftover paint and drapes over the top of the can, put the top back on. If you don't do that and plan on using it quickly, like 1 day make sure you clean the groove in the can and the lid completely or it will NOT come off. If you don't do that and there's like a half can left when you open it you will discover a rock hard hockey puck! I buy it by the pint so I don't have a lot left over from a small job. I have had to pretty much destroy a can to get back in. All this is on POR-15's website. This stuff is tough, I call it poor man's powder coating. I painted my baddogs with it, but not the insides, don't know what welding would do to POR-15 or what fumes would be produced but I wasn't going to take that chance.

[JMortensen]

The Zero Rust paint can says right on it to put a layer of thinner on top of the paint between uses to prevent it from drying in the can.

[heavy85]

... so that's what the directions are for ... guess I forgot a step in there ...

[mikeatrpi]

Flip the can upside down when you store it. The skin will form on the other end.

 

That said, I use rust bullet... POR is picky about prep, RB isn't as much.

[EMWHYR0HEN]

I recently removed alot of rust on my car and now i'm just starting to paint some of the bare metal and rusty surfaces with RustBullet.

I bought a gallon ( which I realize now is wayyy to much ) for $115 and I'm appling the paint with brushes and rollers. Here are my impressions:

 

The paint is thick and it's self leveling, I found when using a brush and rollers you kinda have to work in quick, short sessions. It adhears to anything, its great, bare or rusty metal.

 

The paint's surface was tough when dry, almost like it was powdercoated.

 

I like it, but if I were you i'd spary it on.

 

 

By the way you guys recomend spraying the insides of bare metal surfaces, wont it just burn away when you weld on it?

 

I think it would be better to drill small holes and use some kind of extendable spray nozzle to paint inside.

[madkaw]

I have used the por-15 ,a lot, and it is for real. In your case if it is new metal you will want to spray it down with metal prep first before you use por-15(as recommended) to etch the metal. The por-15 loves texture to grab on to . Epoxy paint would also be great but I think the por-15 would be a heavier and tougher coat then anything if you follow the instructions. You should buy their package to get the marine clean and the metal prep with the paint. You will be impressed with the marine clean-the best degreaser I have used--period

[mull]

I think it would be better to drill small holes and use some kind of extendable spray nozzle to paint inside.

 

Think something like this would do the trick?

 

[Metallicar]

For the inside of rocker boxes and rails after installation, I would go this route:

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=1119&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=373&iSubCat=374&iProductID=1119

 

I have used rattle cans in the past for spraying the inside of boxes and rockers. A little messy and a little uncertain, since one cannot see in the closed up areas. I swap out the nozzle from a WD-40 can (that uses the little red straw) with the spray paint can nozzle, and spray away with the paint until it is dripping out the seams. After 24 hours (or more) has passed, I would fog the inside with WD-40 or other type of spray oil.

 

Back to the original question of Zero-Rust or Epoxy Primer, I am wondering also the answer to this. I may have to search the RacerX archives. I know he highly recommend Zero-rust over every other "rust paint", and that was good enough for me to buy a gallon of it, which I still have to use. I am about 2 more loads in the sandblaster ready for it now.

 

Edit: uughhh.. I just did a search for posts by RacerX. I knew he left, but I did not know he took his information with him! It seems every post of his talent was eliminated on 6-30-07. Crap, I should have saved his stuff offline, instead of relying on the forum.

 

 

 

 

I just received a new Eastwood Catalog in the mail, they have a new line of paint. Thier own private label. The paint line includes epoxy primer, 2K primer, and of course urethane colors & clear. All priced not much more than Rustoleum!

[Metallicar]

 

That gun works well for thick rustproofing matter, like milkshake thick. Not for regular paint. The nozzle end has large oriface, you might be able to exchange for a smaller one. Perhaps fill the tip with epoxy and redrill with an oriface drill.

[Pop N Wood]

The problem is I suffer from engineer's disease. I can’t do anything without agonizing over every other possibility first. It can take me 3 months to figure out what type of screws to use to build my daughter a playhouse.

 

So from what everyone says POR-15 and zero rust are first class products that do what they say. No worries there. They are durable, require relatively less prep, are a near permanent rust fix and as long as you can get the color you want don’t require any follow up.

 

On the downside they are pricey (although $115 a gallon is not that much more than the $90 I just paid for a gallon of PPG primer with required catalyst) and both product say they are susceptible in some way to UV light. Thus only use on the underside and not top side of the car.

 

Probably my biggest worry is compatibility with top coats. Everything I have read says to stay with one “family” of paint. Plus a number of guys have said they had trouble getting top coats to stick to the POR 15. Kind of leads me to the conclusion I had better plan on coating the entire engine compartment with the same stuff one way or the other. Plus the POR-15 route leads me to believe I had better be done working on a piece of metal before I use it. The primer probably has a better chance of piecemeal work.

 

So back to the original question, if I am starting with rust free metal is POR-15 really needed?

 

It might be a year or so before I do any type of final top coat. Is it bad to leave epoxy primer uncoated for that long? I know it will require a new coat of primer before it can be top coated. But is it a bad idea to spray epoxy primer and never top coat it?

 

As for the inside of the Bad Dog rails, I fully intend to paint them inside and out before installing them. I plan to remove the paint in the areas of the welds. It should be a simple matter of repainting the welds and seam sealer once they are in.

 

Does POR-15 flex at all? Any chance of a floor jack on the frame rails breaking off chunks?

[antimanifesto09]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we're talking antirust coatings I thought I might bring it up.

 

Anyone know much about MasterSeries products? (http://www.nomorerust.com/ & http://www.masterseriesct.com/). I've only seen and heard good things, but I don't see it mentioned much on here. Most rust conversation is dominated by Por-15 and Zero Rust. I guess this Master Series stuff is used on steel bridges and industrial applications. Looks legit to me. Any thoughts?

[zgeezer]

The problem is I suffer from engineer's disease. I can’t do anything without agonizing over every other possibility first. It can take me 3 months to figure out what type of screws to use to build my daughter a playhouse.

 

So from what everyone says POR-15 and zero rust are first class products that do what they say. No worries there. They are durable, require relatively less prep, are a near permanent rust fix and as long as you can get the color you want don’t require any follow up.

 

On the downside they are pricey (although $115 a gallon is not that much more than the $90 I just paid for a gallon of PPG primer with required catalyst) and both product say they are susceptible in some way to UV light. Thus only use on the underside and not top side of the car.

 

Probably my biggest worry is compatibility with top coats. Everything I have read says to stay with one “family†of paint. Plus a number of guys have said they had trouble getting top coats to stick to the POR 15. Kind of leads me to the conclusion I had better plan on coating the entire engine compartment with the same stuff one way or the other. Plus the POR-15 route leads me to believe I had better be done working on a piece of metal before I use it. The primer probably has a better chance of piecemeal work.

 

So back to the original question, if I am starting with rust free metal is POR-15 really needed?

 

It might be a year or so before I do any type of final top coat. Is it bad to leave epoxy primer uncoated for that long? I know it will require a new coat of primer before it can be top coated. But is it a bad idea to spray epoxy primer and never top coat it?

 

As for the inside of the Bad Dog rails, I fully intend to paint them inside and out before installing them. I plan to remove the paint in the areas of the welds. It should be a simple matter of repainting the welds and seam sealer once they are in.

 

Does POR-15 flex at all? Any chance of a floor jack on the frame rails breaking off chunks?

 

I sandblasted my z down to bare metal and applied POR 15 Silver [high solids] to every inch, including cutting out the rust in the ends of the sills and spraying/swabbing the insides. I left it out in the low desert sun for the next three years as I did some body work and then applied POR "Tie Coat", PPG epoxy primer and then PPG color. UV creates a color shift, from silver into a "dry heaves" yellow/green. As far as I can tell UV d/n affect the integrity of the finish... it did not "chalk up". I do have some small delamination issues that now appear to be the result of inadequate preparation before putting down the epoxy primer. Live and learn. The kids playing baseball in the shop yard nailed my driver's side rear 1/4 panel with a line drive that punched a fair sized dent. The ppg delaminated where the dent crimped. The POR did not. It is flexible. I don't have chips and the product d/n scratch easily.

 

I recommend it. But, read the instructions well. I don't know what it is, but it sure is not a paint and will not thin with the usual solvents.

 

g