Why did you decide to stay with the Datsun L6 motor?

[Racer Z]

Why did I stay with the L24 that my Datsun 240z came with?

 

First off, if I wanted a V8 I would have bought a Camaro or Mustang, not a 240z.

 

Second off, I wanted to do some vintage racing and therefore I'm locked into the L24 block and head, because I chose a Datsun 240z.

 

I'm not saying a person shouldn't do a motor swap. There are plenty of good reasons to swap or stay put. As popular as it is to stuff a V8 into a 240z, it almost seems natural to see it in there. But, the truth is that for road racing, the L24 can provide plenty of power. 250 HP should be easy to get. It's all text-book at this point.

[Danish240Z]

I keep my L engine, because here in Denmark we have some stupid rules (maybe the only place in the world?) that says an car may not have more than 20% more hp than stock (240Z = 150 + 20% = 180HP) So there is no reason to switch to another engine, - not street legal

 

Would have been nice with a turbo L engine, V8 or RB.. Wish i where born in a country, where the government like cars

[BLOZ UP]

I keep my L engine, because here in Denmark we have some stupid rules (maybe the only place in the world?) that says an car may not have more than 20% more hp than stock (240Z = 150 + 20% = 180HP) So there is no reason to switch to another engine, - not street legal

 

Would have been nice with a turbo L engine, V8 or RB.. Wish i where born in a country, where the government like cars

 

::Shudders::

[Tony D]

Oh, but wait... No government likes cars. They.................................<snip>.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................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And THAT is my governmental meddling about cars rant! (self enforced rules-compliance snippage)

 

[cygnusx1]

I keep my L engine, because here in Denmark we have some stupid rules (maybe the only place in the world?) that says an car may not have more than 20% more hp than stock (240Z = 150 + 20% = 180HP) So there is no reason to switch to another engine, - not street legal

 

Would have been nice with a turbo L engine, V8 or RB.. Wish i where born in a country, where the government like cars

Two things. Do you get free dyno sessions from the government to prove/disprove the HP rating? and How do they handle hidden/removable devices that can be switched off/detuned for the test; like NOS or a turbo?

 

 

 

[LanceVance]

They probably butt dyno the car on the way to impound...

 

Keep it stock looking, L28 block, and some liquid displacement. I doubt the look at internals....

 

Megasquirt it with a couple slow maps on standby incase they want to check. VIN and engine numbers don't match from the factory, so how could they tell?

[Tony D]

VIN and engine numbers don't match from the factory, so how could they tell?

Depending on what market you are in, yes they do! In the USA the only plate that didn't have an engine physical serial number and displacement signifier on it was the 77/78 280Z which simply said 'L28' all the cars up to that point had a matched VIN/SN correlation as recorded on the engine room VIN plate.

 

This is also true in other countries outside North America, but it's hit-or-miss...

[Lazeum]

Everything to modify the car in France for instance is illegal without a full inspection of the vehicle (+ 1500€ + 6 months of procedure with tons of paperwork)

 

So we take the risk to run with modified vehicles BUT if you end up being in an accident with lethal consequences, you're on your own (if you're still there). Insurrance expert will come and checked everything, including pistons diameter if required.

 

 

[HowlerMonkey]

The bass component of even a very muffled L28 at idle will set off car alarms as it idles past.

 

I like running old engines on modern engine management systems and the challenge of laying down emissions numbers that pass regulations set for cars made decades after the L engine stopped being made.

 

The L28 with a high quench head and flattops is perfect for that when run with an ecu that has more modern actuation of egr and timing.

 

Of course, I just bought a ld28 which will be turbo'd for my mega mile per gallon project so emissions are out the window for now.

Edited January 28, 2011 by HowlerMonkey

[Danish240Z]

Two things. Do you get free dyno sessions from the government to prove/disprove the HP rating? and How do they handle hidden/removable devices that can be switched off/detuned for the test; like NOS or a turbo?

 

You have to pay yourself for the dyno session, if the government think it has to much power. Turbo and compressor is declared always above 20%, because they dont think people want to get less than 20% increase in hp with that.

We dont have any laws against NOS, but i think it should be used on the dyno test.

 

The government inspect our vintage cars (+35 years) every 8 years (newer cars every second year) - so people can cheat with having a turbo (or NOS) on for 8 years and then take it off when the inspection is time. But there will be very big fines, if that is discovered!

[JMortensen]

I stuck with the L6 because I was foolish enough to believe it when people who "knew better" told me that a V8 Z wouldn't be able to handle. Took a couple years of Hybrid Z to disabuse me of that notion.

[BLOZ UP]

You have to pay yourself for the dyno session, if the government think it has to much power.

 

Surely they pay if they were wrong, right?

 

I find that ridiculous. So you can buy a car that came with 500hp from the factory, but to get the same HP from a different car, that came with 200HP from the factory... is illegal? Where's the logic in that? What are the laws supposed to protect?

 

What if you modify a car to have less horsepower? Take off a few fuel injector clips, and get on the highway and cause all sorts of chaos. Since it almost seems like they want everyone to have less power. Less power = safer in their minds, or what?

Edited January 28, 2011 by BLOZ UP

[Danish240Z]

Surely they pay if they were wrong, right?

 

I find that ridiculous. So you can buy a car that came with 500hp from the factory, but to get the same HP from a different car, that came with 200HP from the factory... is illegal? Where's the logic in that? What are the laws supposed to protect?

 

What if you modify a car to have less horsepower? Take off a few fuel injector clips, and get on the highway and cause all sorts of chaos. Since it almost seems like they want everyone to have less power. Less power = safer in their minds, or what?

 

Hmm.. I dont know, i dont think they will pay for the dyno if they are wrong. Maybe if you make court case, but nobody have tried that before for a dyno session.

 

 

It is ridiculous - you can not imagine how stupid I think it it's

Yes that is illegal. The government only trust the factory to "say good" for cars.

I think the laws is supposed prevent young guys in cheap twin turbo cars (examble) with to small brakes.

But why the hell do they not hire some people to check if the tuned cars are safe with brake and so on. Instead, they prohibit it all!

 

Yes.. They think less power and slower is more safe for the country

 

 

But there is some methods to get past the 20% rule:

- If the car factory, or the official car importer (Nissan Denmark) will say that the car can handle that power/engine.

- Get the car "TÃœV Merkblatt 751" certified (brake, emission, dyno and stering is testet) - Cost around 10.000$

- Rebuild the cars to a more powerful model (Brakes, engine, suspension) and pay 180% in taxes to the government of the car's estimated value after the rebuild.

 

Then i can be road legal - not easy!

 

 

Wish i where born in US!

Edited January 28, 2011 by Danish240Z

[Tony D]

Surely they pay if they were wrong, right?

 

I find that ridiculous. So you can buy a car that came with 500hp from the factory, but to get the same HP from a different car, that came with 200HP from the factory... is illegal? Where's the logic in that? What are the laws supposed to protect?

 

What if you modify a car to have less horsepower? Take off a few fuel injector clips, and get on the highway and cause all sorts of chaos. Since it almost seems like they want everyone to have less power. Less power = safer in their minds, or what?

 

In some European countries they test left/right brake bias and if it's off by more than 2-3% they fail your car as unsafe. The car isn't working as designed and in a panic situation that 2 or 3% can have a seriously adverse effect in braking at high (or even not so high) speeds. The inspections done overseas are not like Texas or PA where you bribe some guy to give you a certificate. They REALLY DO check mechanical functions.

 

In Germany, if you upgrade horsepower, you have to upgrade braking and provide engineering calculations to support the overall performance envelope of the vehicle is not compromised in an unsafe way.

 

Where's the logic? "Properly Engineered and Safe Upgrading"---there are cars running around on American Freeways that are rattling deathtraps, and when they unleash carnage everybody looks at who to blame...usually it goes to who they can sue and there the government simply says they will do what they can to prevent stipid modifications.

 

A bone stock VW Beetle chassis is not actually capapable of safely supporting the performance a 325HP engine will give...Doesn't stop me from making one. But should I be able to run it on the roads without a brake upgrade? In most of Europe (and Australia from what I understand), the answer is 'no'...

 

That's the short-form answer.

 

Additionally:

"But why the hell do they not hire some people to check if the tuned cars are safe with brake and so on. Instead, they prohibit it all!"

 

Sadly, this is universal for Governments, no matter where you are!

 

"Get the car "TÃœV Merkblatt 751" certified (brake, emission, dyno and stering is testet) - Cost around 10.000$"

This is similar to the CARB certification process in California, technically you can do ANYTHING you want to your car, as long as you can prove it doesn't increase the emissions, to do this you submit your car for testing. This costs some $$$, you get a 'pass/fail' result. If you fail, they don't tell you why, just that you fail. You can figure it out and resubmit, and they will do it again. Either you get the CARB certification, or you give up. It's why most of the old 'SMOG' headers with AIR in them aren't available any longer---they were legal under prior systems in the state, but have not undergone CARB certification so now would be 'illegal'... But that only involves ONE facet of the TUV---give it to the Germans to have a very precise paperwork process to circumvent lazy acceleration and get performance...just fill out the forms, and provide documentation along with copious amounts of money and you too can have a TUV approved 325HP VW Beetle (and they do exist there!)

 

Realize how lucky some of us are to live in the USA for some respects of the automotive hobby. Many people have no clue how lucky they really do have it!

Edited January 31, 2011 by Tony D

[zredbaron]

i am at that point in my build that i need to make a choice as to whether i want to stay with the L6 or go down the beaten path of the 350 SBC or even an LS1/LS2. The only reason i want to stay with the L6 is because of the sound of the motor. While the sbc sounds like your garden variety truck; the L6 have a very distinctive race car sound. As far as i can make out all the other advantages go to the SBC; be it cost, power, availably of parts, aftermarket support, better weight distribution, reliability....etc etc etc.

 

While i was pondering the best course of action for my car; i got curious as to what drove the rest of you guys to chose the L6 over the other engines and hence the question:

 

Why did you decide to stay with the Datsun L6 motor?

 

logan1,

 

How do you plan to use the car?

 

For me, this is the most important question, one that experienced people have asked me, and I didn't quite take their tone literally enough (at the cost of my wallet).

 

Daily driver? Sunday hot rod? Race car? Why the 240Z?

 

I stuck with the L6 because I fell in love with the motor before I ever fell in love with the car. I've since been addicted to two things: the sound and feel of a powerful NA L6 under load, and the competitive thrill of autocross (motorsports in general).

 

Sure, I would be more competitive if I chose a different vehicle or cut my car and put big tires on it. I love my Z and its motor enough to outweigh the desire to start over in a car more appropriate for its class, so I improve what I can and enjoy both addictions.

[the-sleeper-z31]

I LOVE THE SPIRIT OF THE l6 NOTHING SOUNDS QUITE LIKE IT

[cygnusx1]

Yes lots of engines sound great, but....here is my new ringtone.

 

Edited February 2, 2011 by cygnusx1

[ezzzzzzz]

I decided that I wanted to build a 2.8 L6 using a LD block and V07 crank and slap on a MP62 supercharger. A L6 just looks right under that long hood. However, After enough $$$ to buy two LSx engines I now question my sanity. That's a lie. I've been questioning my sanity for a long time. When it's completed I'll be happy but for half the cash I could've have a V8.

Edited February 2, 2011 by ezzzzzzz

[Gollum]

I bought my first Z, a 80', thinking that I'd be swapping the motor for a V8 once I didn't have to subject my vehicle to smog inspections. Then the laws changed. So, after owning 4 S130's I NEEDED a car to drive, and I wanted a S30 like you couldn't believe. And find one I did. It happened to already have a L28ET and I got it for a song and dance.

 

So for me, I've been sticking with the L motors for one big reason - it's in there already. This saves me downtime that most people spend on swaps, and I don't have to worry about fabricating anything to make it fit. My first Z was my first car, so my tool collection started small. I simply didn't have the resources to do a swap. I eventually did do a turbo swap in a S130, but I also did the whole swap for pretty cheap.

 

I DO love the sound, and would love to have a 200+hp L28 in a lightweight 240Z. I love the sound of those solid lifters and timing chain. All those little noises are just like pouring joy juice in my ear canal. An ITB L6 is just sex on a platter.

 

All that being said, once I have a welder and some experience with it, down the road my S30 is probably going to get a SR or VG or possible a VQ. My 280Z is going to stay pretty hardcore, but if I happen upon a nice 240Z I might just have to build one that the wife could enjoy. She doesn't even like thinking about riding in my 280Z. My 81' I have really mixed feelings about. One week I want to sell it, the next I want to keep the only slicktop S130 I've ever had. The motor probably won't make it to 300k and is going to get there terribly so if it does. But swapping in a rebuild L6 just seems cruel with that crappy EFI. Maybe I'll swap in a carb'ed motor and roll the dice at the smog dyno.

[richracing]

even though im in the process of doing a v8 swap, I enjoyed the L28 alot. it had an nice aggressive exhaust note for a stock motor, also i bought my s130 for $800 with 270,xxx miles on it, put a new battery in it and flush all the fluids, then drove almost 1000 miles round trip without a problem. it was still running strong when i pulled it out, just smoked a little. i am about to purchace a '75 280z and plan to keep the L28 in it and one day through some ITB's on it, 250hp and ill be happy!