cussing

[Guest drive4fun]

I agree. There is a wealth of knowledge here and a wealth of expertise being lended. Let's all appreciate it, and respect it. Be a contributor, a listener, and a learner. And be greatful. Where else would we find something like this site? It's unmatched, so I think it is a treasure, and should be treated as such.

 

Word to the wise:

 

It seems there are several members, past, present and future, who don't understand the cold hard facts of life:

 

- HybridZ.org is a private party that you can come and join without invitation, and stay as long as you don't cause trouble or tick off the hosts.

 

- HybridZ.org user status is not a right. It's a priviledge.

 

- The admins/moderators (referred to as admins from here on) have power to show the door to people that don't follow the rules or become a problem too often - they can ban you from the site. Yes, you can re-register, but we will probably out-last you on that little game.

 

If you don't like how the admins are acting at the party that they are throwing (i.e., allowing you to come to HybridZ and post), you can leave or you can PM or email them and see if you can politely explain your complaint. That way, you are much more likely to get them to listen to your complaint and possibly apologize and/or rectify the situation if they agree they should have dealt with something another way.

 

But if you post about the admins disparagingly on the forums, you will look like the rebel that wants to be shown off the island.

 

If you weren't taught to respect authority (whether you agree with the authority figure or not), then we really don't care if we have to teach you here. This is NOT a democracy.

 

Consider this social situation: If you make a scene in public on the forum, you will be shown the door. Why the heck would we want you at our private party if you call us out in front of everybody? Do you think publicly slamming the admins is going to HELP your situation? I guess you may get some kind of satisfaction if someone posts and agrees with you. If that's what you are looking for, then you are just a grand-standing rebel, and we certainly don't want you here. It's the admin's party and you probably aren't going to continue to be welcome if you cause a fuss about them in public, just like if you flame one of their guests. Sure, it doesn't seem fair that the admins can smack you down for your speaking your mind, but instead of making it public (what good will that do but get others to become the focus of scrutiny?), be tactful and mature and do it IN PRIVATE. In private, there can be a peaceful resolution. But when you make it public, you cause the admins to have to make a decision about whether you are welcome at the party or not. It doesn't matter if the admin was wrong or right in how many people's eyes. It's the admin's party. Don't give us the "that's not fair!" BS - we will just tell you life isn't fair and HybridZ is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship. Learn to live with those cold hard facts.

 

As always, put yourself in the shoes of the admin when you think about publicly denigrating them. Sure, they should be above retaliation. But why should they bother with you after you do that? Why should they allow you to stay at their party? They have no reason to want you to stay after that, since you've now publicly challenged them. You've at this point made an uncomfortable scene. I can guarantee you that more people will be against you than for you after that. Sure, you may get some who take your side, but then you've started the battle that must be dealt with. Many admins won't have time for that and decide that your wonderous tech knowledge is not worth the price of your rebel ways and they will probably ban you if you make it a big scene, or make a few small scenes.

 

Lecture concluded.

[johnc]

The mouse still died...

 

[Challenger]

Were all mice, and the admin are eagles... Dont piss them off.

[johnc]

The content and the value of this site comes from the members. Some of the members also voluntarily perform the role of mdoerators and administrators. All the admins and mods do is (to the best of their abilities and comensurate with their pay) ensure the rules are followed by the members.

 

Its really pretty simple.

[Challenger]

The content and the value of this site comes from the members. Some of the members also voluntarily perform the role of mdoerators and administrators. All the admins and mods do is (to the best of their abilities and comensurate with their pay) ensure the rules are followed by the members.

 

Its really pretty simple.

 

I really love seeing that play out. A member gets out of line and other members correct them or tell them to be careful.

[G.I.jonas]

Offensive vulgarity is sweet! just my .02

[RTz]

The content and the value of this site comes from the members. Some of the members also voluntarily perform the role of mdoerators and administrators. All the admins and mods do is (to the best of their abilities and comensurate with their pay) ensure the rules are followed by the members.

 

Its really pretty simple.

 

Amen!

[Clifton]

The content and the value of this site comes from the members.

 

This couldn't be more true.

 

 

 

 

If you don't like how the admins are acting at the party that they are throwing (i.e., allowing you to come to HybridZ and post), you can leave or you can PM or email them and see if you can politely explain your complaint. That way, you are much more likely to get them to listen to your complaint and possibly apologize and/or rectify the situation if they agree they should have dealt with something another way..

 

Without the guest there isn't much of a party.

 

 

If you weren't taught to respect authority (whether you agree with the authority figure or not), then we really don't care if we have to teach you here. This is NOT a democracy.

.

 

 

 

I know this is the view a few mods on here have. I respect those that treat others as equals and give respect back. Plus, this is not school, it's party:-D. Those that feel they deserve respect usaully treat and talk to others as if they are the parents. That can cause problems with the guests and isn't the best way to approach a guest. I rarely see the party throwers talk to someone as they are a guest (friend). I have seen them talk to people as though they are the cops, not very host like.

[drdiabetezx66x]

i don't see a problem with grown people dropping some F bombs on a messageboard...but the rules are the rules...as long as it isn't directed toward a person and just in the general nature of the converstion, i don't think it's a big deal. you won't catch me doing it after reading this thread...at least till i finish my Z and i don't need you guys anymore kidding of course

[pparaska]

Without the guest there isn't much of a party.

 

And what does this mean, Clifton?

 

Without the rebel guest, the party is fun for more people.

 

I know this is the view a few mods on here have. I respect those that treat others as equals and give respect back. Plus, this is not school, it's party:-D. Those that feel they deserve respect usaully treat and talk to others as if they are the parents. That can cause problems with the guests and isn't the best way to approach a guest. I rarely see the party throwers talk to someone as they are a guest (friend). I have seen them talk to people as though they are the cops, not very host like.

 

What are you trying to say here, Clifton?

 

If you think the only place that someone in authority over you deserves respect is in school, you will probably have a tough time of it in life. That situation happens in the work place, out on the road, just about everywhere. It's a strange concept to some, but respect for authority is a method of self-preservation or at least a method to lower the problems in your life.

 

I and the other admins DO have authority over the members here - it's a simple fact. It's something that we don't like to often point out to the members as it sets up an uncomfortable situation. But when rebels feel that they can ignore this fact and make public posts against the admin's actions, they bring the topic to the attention of everyone. It's happening more and more in the past few years, and it's been getting to be more of an issue as of late.

 

So if I or the other admins expect some respect because we're "in power" we are asking too much? How about if we just don't moderate the forums and let all the flamers and spammers just run over the site unfettered. Maybe we'd get some respect after we let that happen? What if the police all quit doing their jobs and tried not to catch all the murderers and rapists - I bet you might respect what they do (except for victimizing citizens with speed traps, etc.) more if you thought about what they do every day. Do you have a problem with authority in general?

 

Everyone deserves respect if they act like mature human beings. That's how I go through life. They get more if they are nice, helpful, etc. They get less when they act like a rebel without a real cause, if they go against any authority just because they don't like any authority.

 

This, I would think is really simple and obvious, but some just don't get it and it's why I wrote what I did:

If someone acts like a rebel against the hosts at a party they will get unwelcome attention from the hosts. For the simple fact that SOMEONE has authority in that situation, they deserve to be shown a bit more respect in public, no matter how much you dislike them or dislike that they have respect. If you instead show disrespect to them in public, then you should expect some kind of reaction that you probably won't like in the end, as well as the other people at the party glancing sideways at you and thinking you are the fool, or they might even come over and tell you to knock it off.

 

If someone here acts like a child that needs parenting, we are inclined to take on the parenting role - that's our duty. But for the VAST majority of members, we don't have to do that and we just act like gracious party hosts and try to be helpful as much as we can. So, no, we admins don't always talk to guests as if we are parents. We only do that if we need to fix things if a rule was broken.

 

Do you really think that the admins talk down to all the guests that much? Out of my 5000+ posts, I can guarantee you that most of them were either me asking a question, answering one, or throwing out a bit of humor. Up until a few years ago, we had basically nothing to do as far as "parenting".

[dr_hunt]

Offensive vulgarity is sweet! just my .02

 

 

GI Jonas, somehow I figured you would say something like that.

 

Just depends on the situation I guess, sometimes it just rubs me the wrong way, and I'm sure it does others as well. Kind of the point of the thread isn't it.

 

On a lighter note, the stinky stuff, $hit, should be a word reckognized for common usage in the english language. Your either doing it, taking it, giving it, pointing it out, actually in it, watching it, enjoying it, can't believe it, etc. etc. Just kidding. Kind of ironic how it's used alot in some circles though. I have friends in low places, what can I say, I'd name names but you all probably know them already.

 

Reality though it is typically used when you run out of other words normally used or somethings are just beyond description. I don't have a very good command of the english language like my mother does and would like me to have.

 

Getting back to the point of the thread now. Anyway, If I have offended anyone with any vulgar or other use of words deemed inappropriate, I apologize. Feel free to PM me at any time, I'm not quite as big of donkey as you may visualize.

 

Thats about all I have to say about that, so I'm done.

[pparaska]

I have for a long time worked with officers in the US Navy. I can tell you that many of them could not complete a sentence without the S or F word used at least once. So I'm pretty much used to it.

 

I try not to use that kind of language around my kids, if in a meeting, etc. but I let them out in casual presence of my colleagues sometimes.

 

I apologize if I offend anyone with my language or actions here. Please PM me if you have a problem with my language or behavior here.

[dat240zg]

Actually, I'm grateful that you (Pete) and the other admins walk the straight and narrow with the site. I enjoy being able to check in every once and a while and not have to worry about something inappropriate being there. There's a reason why this is the only board (for the most part) that I spend my time on.

 

Keep it up!

 

Bryan

Dat240zg

[rudypoochris]

I enjoy this party and find that as I have grown up (I believe I joined when I was around 15 years old), I have actually carried a decent amount of respect and tact that I have learned HERE from observing posts and such into my everyday life. I am ahead for it. I appreciate it and keep it up.

[pparaska]

rudy - I learned my E-manners before HybridZ - only because I'm older and had been on the internet since 91 - back before the WWW, in the land of email and gophering... But I still mis-step. Only human I guess.

 

I think a great rule of thumb is to imagine the person(s) you are type a message to are as close as the screen you are looking at. A lot of flames would be abated if we all followed that rule. And I know I would have had fewer problems if I always followed this too.

[Clifton]

I guess I got off topic.

 

 

What are you trying to say here, Clifton?

 

If you think the only place that someone in authority over you deserves respect is in school, you will probably have a tough time of it in life. That situation happens in the work place, out on the road, just about everywhere. It's a strange concept to some, but respect for authority is a method of self-preservation or at least a method to lower the problems in your life.

 

I and the other admins DO have authority over the members here - it's a simple fact. It's something that we don't like to often point out to the members as it sets up an uncomfortable situation. But when rebels feel that they can ignore this fact and make public posts against the admin's actions, they bring the topic to the attention of everyone. It's happening more and more in the past few years, and it's been getting to be more of an issue as of late.

 

So if I or the other admins expect some respect because we're "in power" we are asking too much? How about if we just don't moderate the forums and let all the flamers and spammers just run over the site unfettered. Maybe we'd get some respect after we let that happen? What if the police all quit doing their jobs and tried not to catch all the murderers and rapists - I bet you might respect what they do (except for victimizing citizens with speed traps, etc.) more if you thought about what they do every day. Do you have a problem with authority in general?

 

Everyone deserves respect if they act like mature human beings. That's how I go through life. They get more if they are nice, helpful, etc. They get less when they act like a rebel without a real cause, if they go against any authority just because they don't like any authority.

 

This, I would think is really simple and obvious, but some just don't get it and it's why I wrote what I did:

If someone acts like a rebel against the hosts at a party they will get unwelcome attention from the hosts. For the simple fact that SOMEONE has authority in that situation, they deserve to be shown a bit more respect in public, no matter how much you dislike them or dislike that they have respect. If you instead show disrespect to them in public, then you should expect some kind of reaction that you probably won't like in the end, as well as the other people at the party glancing sideways at you and thinking you are the fool, or they might even come over and tell you to knock it off.

 

If someone here acts like a child that needs parenting, we are inclined to take on the parenting role - that's our duty. But for the VAST majority of members, we don't have to do that and we just act like gracious party hosts and try to be helpful as much as we can. So, no, we admins don't always talk to guests as if we are parents. We only do that if we need to fix things if a rule was broken.

 

Do you really think that the admins talk down to all the guests that much? Out of my 5000+ posts, I can guarantee you that most of them were either me asking a question, answering one, or throwing out a bit of humor. Up until a few years ago, we had basically nothing to do as far as "parenting".

 

It is hard to express some things on a forum without it coming across in a way that it was intended. I wasn't trying to point to you, I hope you didn't take it like that. I've never seen you talk down to someone and I hope you didn't think I was pointing to you or anyone in particular. I have seen quite a few posts that weren't so friendly from others that could have been handled alot better, if the intention of this board is an information party. I'm not talking about posts by rebels either.

 

The school thing is a reference. I have seen some mods talk to poeple as if they are 12. When you are 12 it may work, but when you are an adult and someone comes across like that it doesn't work as well and usually makes things worse. Talking to someone as they are your equal but a little out of line will get people further. Yes, I know there are many people with authority. I am old enough to know this and have made it through life so far without too much trouble. If someone feels they deserve automatic respect because of there title, job discription, social class, or whatever, that's were I have a problem and butt heads. Respect does not go hand in hand with authority. One can obey the rules but still have no respect for those that make them. This goes for the real world or Hybrid.

 

 

And what does this mean, Clifton?

"Without the guest there isn't much of a party"

 

Without the rebel guest, the party is fun for more people.

 

 

I meant, the members make the forums. If half of the high posting, knowledgable, helpfull ones left. Hybrid wouldn't be quite the same, other than the name. The attitude some take is, if you don't like it leave. If we all left there wouldn't be much left to moderate. This may be a dictatorship but we don't need a visa to go somewhere else. The way some actions are taken, the guests don't always seem apprecaited.

 

I do completely agree that rebels aren't wanted.

[JMortensen]

I meant, the members make the forums. If half of the high posting, knowledgable, helpfull ones left. Hybrid wouldn't be quite the same, other than the name. The attitude some take is, if you don't like it leave. If we all left there wouldn't be much left to moderate. This may be a dictatorship but we don't need a visa to go somewhere else. The way some actions are taken, the guests don't always seem apprecaited.

 

I do completely agree that rebels aren't wanted.

I would expect that there is no argument from the admins side on this issue. We have no compulsory membership program, and we've told people who don't like the rules about text message typing or cursing or politics or whatever to go start their own z car site. There are several big ones out there, we're not the only game in town. I think we are the best, and the quality of the info here reflects that, and I think that our position as "best" is both in spite of and because of our ruleset.

 

As far as "appreciating the guests" I would argue that a lot of that is misunderstood. I had a guy get pissed off at me today because I shedded his post on LSD breakage. He PM'd me about it and basically he thought that my reasoning for doing shedding the post was because his post questioned my authority on the subject. I have no authority on the subject, and I shedded his post because it was redundant. I offered for him to post his specific question in the diff sticky post that I had written (to keep all the info consolidated in one post) but haven't heard back or seen a post yet...

 

I think a lot of issues with the admins are simple misunderstandings like that. Some others occur when people want to question the authority of the admins. I think it is just in some peoples' nature to do so, and they can't help themselves. I can think of one member who was repeatedly told "Keep your politics out of it" and wouldn't stop and was banned even though he had a lot of valuable tech. I can also recall another who would constantly meddle in any situation where an admin tried to correct a user for almost any reason. He too was banned. People with good info may very well get booted out of the party. If that causes us enough harm, at some point I would think that there would be some discussion amongst the admins about changing tactics, but I don't foresee us having that discussion in the short term.

[Mikelly]

The sad reality is that we have lost some very good and very valuable members who left because the site grew to large and became to distant. Kind of like going to work for a very small company, feeling like you're part of the family, and then getting bought out by one of the mega-giants, only to be treated like yet another number...

 

Reality is that we have a number of members we've dealt with over the years who step over the line, decide to butt heads with an admin, and then get admonished for it. They may quiet down for a spell, then come right back a few months later... We have a watch list for that very reason.

 

Most of that stuff goes by behind the scenes and becomes a real headache to deal with over and over again. When it happens enough, you're going to get shown the door, even if but for a short time out.

 

Bottom line is this is a party... The party will go on, if it's just Pete, Dan and I and a few hundred of our closest friends... We don't get paid much for this site, and we can pay to keep the lights on and the beer flowing if need be. We want everyone who is here to be here if they can follow the rules. If they can't? Have a nice life over on "www.I'M Unappreciated on HybridZ.com" because they will be shown the door, just like if they were at my shindigs...

 

Mike

[Careless]

Well, congratulations, you were clever enough to beat the free filter that comes with our board software. I guess we won't be able to protect everyone from themselves.

 

are there meetings i can go to? classes i can take?

 

[Careless]

anyway, i tried reading this thread and what it boils down to is that:

 

1) most, if not all of the mods on the board are members first, and officers second.

 

2) a ban is a citizens arrest