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Posted (edited)

It's horrible on both ends.  

 

A customer gets screwed unjustifiably, and a once honorable and valued company (Whitehead was good to me) is irreparably damaged at best, about to go under at worst.

 

Whether it's Paypal or a straight credit card purchase, I keep a close eye on the dispute deadlines.  If they are approaching, I always file a dispute/claim, regardless of what the merchant claims or excuses they have.  Unless it's a trivial sum of money that I am willing to risk.

 

Long range, often international transactions, would be completely undoable without some sort of claim/dispute process.  Shady merchants could rip off customers with impunity.  I've disputed many, many charges over the years, and sadly many of these problems have been in the course of purchasing Datsun items.

Edited by Ironhead
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, NewZed said:

Edited - the credit card charge challenging process requires oversight.  I don't think that it's a given that the consumer always gets their money back.  It's a process.

 

If it was a U.S. business you could sue them in small claims court, report them to the attorney general in the state they are registered in, and also report them to the Better Business Bureau.  Those are all remedies/actions for the consumer to take against companies that do not fulfill their obligations.  Which is what Whitehead is doing here.  But they're in Canada and the US Attorney General's office has a lot of other things going on right now.

To be clear, I'm not defending Whitehead at all here, but the credit card companies DO take the money from the merchant and give it back to the customer FIRST. At that point the merchant has to prove that they shipped a product, that it was the right product, that it was shipped to the right address, etc. Almost all of my chargebacks (I get about 10 a year now) are for unauthorized purchase. Somebody steals a credit card and places an order. I do my job and deliver to the address given. I never talk to the people or interact in any other way, but the cc companies say it's my fault for taking a fraudulent order. Some people seem to believe that the credit card company eats this fraud. No. Merchants do.

I say this as a guy with literally decades of experience: one of my first jobs was working for Ronco (the "It slices, it dices" and "Set it and forget it" company - Ron Popeil is the father of the infomercial) and my job there for the last year or so was answering chargebacks. It was a 40hr/week job, which says something about the quality of the food dehydrator he was hawking at the time. Then I went to a merchant services company called Cardservice International, where I monitored chargebacks coming in to merchant accounts and withheld money from them until we could verify. They were a startup at the time and their business was centered around providing merchant accounts to people who big banks wouldn't deal with. Small businesses and business owners with bad credit scores. I saw lots of fraud from the merchant side at that job. With the click of a mouse button I held $250K from a merchant's bank account, in 1995. Turned out I was right, they were scammers. Also caught a dentist's receptionist scamming her boss. How? I saw a refund. Who gets a REFUND from their dentist? Then I searched the card number and found a second one. The receptionist had taken her bf's cc to work, swiped it and issued a refund for $1276.39 or some nondescript amount like that. LOL.

Since then I had a couple jobs turning wrenches, but for the last 20 years it's been all mail order, where this chargeback thing is just part of life. Doesn't matter how scrupulous you are; there are identity thieves out there, and they won't hesitate to screw over a guy like me, who is just trying to make an honest living. Lately I've had quite a few scammers order the most expensive pet door that we sell, enter the correct billing and shipping address and then ship to some random person's house. The banks' theory is that they then just follow the tracking and stake out the house, and they go swipe the doggy door after UPS drops it at the porch. Sadly, I went about 10 years with maybe 1 or 2 chargebacks in the whole year, but in the last 5 years or so it's REALLY ramped up a lot, lost about $4K in Jan 2020 to fraud.

The right thing to do with Whitehead (assuming all the claims made here are true) is small claims if that works internationally, but even if you win, good luck collecting. Social media pressure is also a good tactic.

Edited by JMortensen
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Posted (edited)

@JMortensen OK, I know the point of your post was not the infomercial guy, but I found that super entertaining. Thanks for sharing! I remember watching those as a kid. Must have been a tough job dealing with those chargebacks.

 

I lived in Jamaica for a year, working on an energy import project (LNG). I made a lot of local friends, and the “scammers” as they were referred to, were legends. Like gangs, really. They fought over turf and power, too. Turned out Jamaica (after India) was one of the largest exporters of  internet and phone scams in the world. 

Edited by AydinZ71
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I was in one of the informercials for the Popeil Pasta Maker for about 5 seconds. I believe my quote was: "It makes the best mac and cheese you've EVER had!" BTW those are shot in his house. They roll bleachers into his living room and point them at his kitchen. No shit. Big house. Beverly Hills. Crowd at the time was people who owned other Popeil products. They had some spaces in the bleachers and didn't have people to fill, so they called our office and I think about 10 or 15 of us went down to fill in the holes.

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12 hours ago, JMortensen said:

I was in one of the informercials for the Popeil Pasta Maker for about 5 seconds. I believe my quote was: "It makes the best mac and cheese you've EVER had!" BTW those are shot in his house. They roll bleachers into his living room and point them at his kitchen. No shit. Big house. Beverly Hills. Crowd at the time was people who owned other Popeil products. They had some spaces in the bleachers and didn't have people to fill, so they called our office and I think about 10 or 15 of us went down to fill in the holes.


Now that is a fantastic story! I still own one of those cheesy plastic grater thingie a they sold on infomercials. It worked like, twice before the handle broke off the veggie holder. Of course you have to push down hard, the plastic flexed 😂

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In my country there is a procedure to go through which involves the supplier before any CC money is refunded but I guess that there has to be a time limit, that makes sense. There are also small claims facilities but these are only viable if it's worthwhile which it's not for,say, under $1000. This has happened to me where I worked out that my $650 claim was not worth the cost and effort. All this is why I like using Paypal, I buy lots of stuff and have found that the Paypal dispute system works well.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2021 at 9:09 AM, rxx2rxx2 said:

 

I'm not on a smear campaign. 3K hurts but I've written it off.

 

I find it funny how people tend to put a negative slant on sharing poor experiences they have had with a particular company, like they should feel guilty doing so.  You essentially had $3K stolen from you.  If there is a company out there doing this sort of thing, other potential customers need to know about it, before it happens to them.  IMHO the victims of these rip-offs have almost a duty to share it publicly.  That's one of the great things about the internet.

 

It's not a "smear".....just sort of a "buyer beware".

Edited by Ironhead
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On 4/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, grannyknot said:

I  reached out to Mike just to give him a heads up and received this reply, I'm sure you will hear from him very shortly.  I didn't know about the single parent thing, that must be quite recent and explains a few things. Hope this helps.

AOh14GjgFgNbTFiMPqCZpiRiytS3C3wHodJNpY5BBXpmzQ=s40

Whitehead Performance

5:51 PM (44 minutes ago)
   
 
to me
cleardot.gif
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks for the heads up. yup that one slipped by me both putting the diff together and now the refund.
So far behind on things - everytime the kids get sent home i have to be home with them at least 50% of the time (single parent).  Just can't keep up with everything like this.  Not complaining just being straight on what my situation is. 
But everyone here is okay and i hope the same for you on your end.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike Hansen
Manager, Whitehead Performance
416-665-2220
uc?export=download&id=0BxZegFGh-qtGdVZPOVplRFJPS1U&revid=0BxZegFGh-qtGQXRid2F5NkczeXVZL0tEcjFWUGEzY1hmQyt3PQ

 

Maybe he needs another reach out.  It's been almost 6 weeks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There comes a point....and I think Whitehead is there....where this sort of behavior becomes criminal...literally.  Knowingly taking money without returning agreed upon goods/services, which at this point could be proven is being done with intent and pre-meditation, is prosecutable criminally.

 

I don't know exactly how all this works in Canada, but it might be time for a call to the state prosecutor/district attorney/whomever in the area out of which Whitehead operates.

 

I know most people would rather write off the loss and move on....which I understand....but think about the people who have been screwed who haven't posted to hybridz.....

 

 

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I've been waiting for an ignition part from the manufacturer here in the States (Fuel, Air, Spark) for several weeks and I'm told it could be a few more weeks wait.  My research shows there are no other retailers who have what I need in stock.  The part is listed on Whitehead's site but with no one answering thier phone and after reading all the above negative comments about them, I've decided not to risk deal with them.  Perhaps all the comments should sound the "buyer beware alarm" to this community until Whitehead can prove to be a worthy supplier again.  I'm not part of the cancel culture and I don't like the word "boycott" but if a duck walks like a duck and quacks, it's most likely a duck!

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