Dream builds

[seattlejester]

Had an interesting thought and was curious what others consider to be their dream build.

 

Mine would be:

Early 240z

L28 with Datsunworks twin cam head

ITB's

Hoke CD009 adapter

CD009

TTT rear end conversion

 

Quite a bit different from what I currently have, wonder if others would have gone a different route or stayed the same.

[ARiskyCvt]

Building a “dream” ride right now 10+ years and still considered a paper weight. Still staying the same and true to what I wanted to build. 

Fairlady Z early model 

L28 stroker

Sk sport injection ITB 

Type 2 surge tank

Trust exhaust manifold

Big turbo 

just the start of the list but making it into reality is a whole different story. Just another of those Devil Z engine build that everyone wants to build but never does anything. But I’ll drop a teaser pic tire from my instagram 

 

 

 

[seattlejester]

My goodness, that is commitment!

[Gollum]

I'm one of those odd people that will likely never sell their S30, but I also didn't buy it because it was a dream car. I got into Z cars because they were cheap(er) and were as close to a blank canvas as you can get. Any engine fits, and they're small enough that they generally handle well unless you ruin them.

 

But if you held a gun to my head, I guess my ideal S30 would be some Frankenstein between a BRE 240Z and a Daytona Coupe. Ideally a modern spaceframe like the new FFR models, with tires for days. As fond as I am of the L motor, the Coyote has been my dream of a perfect V8 for 8+ years now, and it's only getting better with each passing iteration.

 

In reality, I'm actually far more likely to build a FFR Daytona than build that S30, mostly because of required time and tool investment. I'm not a chassis designer, and as much fun as that sounds, would likely get to the desired results faster by letting others do the heavy engineering lifting. Though I guess an idea I've had in the back of my mind for 15+ years now, would be to just plop a S30 body onto a FFR chassis... Which seems like a shame, because it's not like the Daytona is ugly. Maybe I'll order TWO kits....

[Zetsaz]

-Early car (though you know I'm perfectly happy with my early 280)

-Stroker L28, with ITBs, or the Datsunworks head ITBs, or ITB Turbo L series (I'm a music teacher... I care about sound I guess haha)

-Interior basically identical to the tan/brown interior on the MZR Roadsports builds

-Exterior with only subtle mods to help the lackluster aero these cars have

-Incognito paint matched carbon fiber panels. 

-Suspension would really be basically identical to what I have now, but with Apex Engineered parts

-Restored vintage Japanese wheels like SSRs or Epsilon mesh

[Michael]

* Full chromoly tube chassis (custom designed, verified with extensive finite-elements modeling)

* Unequal A-arm suspension on all four corners, based on some blend between Miata and 5th/6th-gen Corvette (with suitable design and testing)

* Carbon-fiber body panels affixed to tube chassis, after proper wind-tunnel development

* LS7 (Chevy 4th-gen SBC) engine, twin turbo

* TBD gearbox

* Ford 9" differential and center-section, with suitable half-shafts and inboard brakes

* Lexan windshield etc.

* VIN from 1970 Datsun Z welded into firewall

 

In other words, the only Datsun part of the car would be registration as a Datsun.  It wouldn't even attempt to resemble at Datsun in its external lines, let alone internal components.  Why not?  Because there are too many compromises in building a "dream car" from the initial canvas.  It's taken me 20+ years to figure that out.

[Zetsaz]

8 minutes ago, Michael said:

* Full chromoly tube chassis (custom designed, verified with extensive finite-elements modeling)

* Unequal A-arm suspension on all four corners, based on some blend between Miata and 5th/6th-gen Corvette (with suitable design and testing)

* Carbon-fiber body panels affixed to tube chassis, after proper wind-tunnel development

* LS7 (Chevy 4th-gen SBC) engine, twin turbo

* TBD gearbox

* Ford 9" differential and center-section, with suitable half-shafts and inboard brakes

* Lexan windshield etc.

 * VIN from 1970 Datsun Z welded into firewall

 

In other words, the only Datsun part of the car would be registration as a Datsun.  It wouldn't even attempt to resemble at Datsun in its external lines, let alone internal components.  Why not?  Because there are too many compromises in building a "dream car" from the initial canvas.  It's taken me 20+ years to figure that out.

 

So what you're saying is you don't want a datsun at all, and you just want to chop the vin off an early car and weld it into a custom chassis?

[calZ]

And it's not even going to be a carbon replica of the body. What was the point of even replying? 

[JMortensen]

11 hours ago, Michael said:

* Full chromoly tube chassis (custom designed, verified with extensive finite-elements modeling)

* Unequal A-arm suspension on all four corners, based on some blend between Miata and 5th/6th-gen Corvette (with suitable design and testing)

* Carbon-fiber body panels affixed to tube chassis, after proper wind-tunnel development

* LS7 (Chevy 4th-gen SBC) engine, twin turbo

* TBD gearbox

* Ford 9" differential and center-section, with suitable half-shafts and inboard brakes

* Lexan windshield etc.

* VIN from 1970 Datsun Z welded into firewall

 

In other words, the only Datsun part of the car would be registration as a Datsun.  It wouldn't even attempt to resemble at Datsun in its external lines, let alone internal components.  Why not?  Because there are too many compromises in building a "dream car" from the initial canvas.  It's taken me 20+ years to figure that out.

 Not sure why you'd want inboard brakes on a 9" rear end, but looks like this guy pretty much has the rest covered:

I think that car is the best that I've seen. I love it.  There are a couple things I would change, but not many.

I do like what I did with my own with the 15x14 wheels and slicks, but I'm sure he would smoke me on an autox course and road course wouldn't even be close as he's got an extra couple hundred hp on my L33 truck engine which should put out ~350whp.

[Zetsaz]

I was going to say, he basically wants Tyler Powell's car or Mark Rolston's, but somehow even less Datsun DNA 

[Michael]

Harsh crowd here!

 

Having spent 20+ years tinkering with my Datsun, having it be my garage companion through several human relationships and countless too-human failures and foibles, I'm sentimentally attached to the machine.  But it's not what I really want.  It's my companion, yes - but not my dream.  And this thread asked about dreams.  The dream would be a truly iconic racing-car, that redefines the possibility of what's possible in vehicle-engineering.    Short of that, the mini-dream would still be a foray and achievement far beyond anything that I've been able to do, or might ever likely be able to do.  Thus, again, the term "dream".

 

As to reacquainting ourselves with hardnosed realism, the "dream" is to merely sort out and to render reliable what I've already tried to do.  The engine that I have currently installed has "potential" for some 500 hp (it is after all 461 cubic inches, with some top-shelf parts is semi-semblance of good order), though I doubt that it actually produces half as much.  The brakes... occasionally work. The car is squirrelly, ill-tempered, rough, more of a white-knuckle facsimile of amusement than anything serious on the road.  I dream of fixing that someday.

[seattlejester]

The dream is exactly what it is, no need for rationale behind it. Someone could want to put a 12 inch lift kit on a Z and take it rallying, and some may want it so low that lane dividers become obstacles. Whatever the dream is, is whatever the dream is. Granted, removing everything but the vin is quite extreme lol.

[Zetsaz]

5 hours ago, Michael said:

Harsh crowd here!

 

Having spent 20+ years tinkering with my Datsun, having it be my garage companion through several human relationships and countless too-human failures and foibles, I'm sentimentally attached to the machine.  But it's not what I really want.  It's my companion, yes - but not my dream.  And this thread asked about dreams.  The dream would be a truly iconic racing-car, that redefines the possibility of what's possible in vehicle-engineering.    Short of that, the mini-dream would still be a foray and achievement far beyond anything that I've been able to do, or might ever likely be able to do.  Thus, again, the term "dream".

 

As to reacquainting ourselves with hardnosed realism, the "dream" is to merely sort out and to render reliable what I've already tried to do.  The engine that I have currently installed has "potential" for some 500 hp (it is after all 461 cubic inches, with some top-shelf parts is semi-semblance of good order), though I doubt that it actually produces half as much.  The brakes... occasionally work. The car is squirrelly, ill-tempered, rough, more of a white-knuckle facsimile of amusement than anything serious on the road.  I dream of fixing that someday.

 

Haha, I don't mean to say the other post is a bad dream build. I'm just thinking dream Datsun build. It's just so far out there from a Datsun build in my mind is all I'm saying. 

[Michael]

Let me try with another analogy.  Toyota has in recent years been campaigning a NASCAR "Camry".  It's a beautiful machine!  As with all NASCAR entrants, it has tube-chassis and RWD and a big pushrod V8.  And so forth.  I'd love to buy one, and yes, drive it on the street - registered as an, ahem, Camry.

 

That's the direction that I'd like to go with a Z.  Why then even tangle with a Z at all?  Emotional connection, decades spent on it, personal feels of one or another kind, and the opportunity to register a maximum-effort track-only race car as a supposed street car.  My locale in principle allows that - well, maybe not, but it may still be possible without outright committing a crime.  At the very least there is no smog-check or equipment-inspection.

[capt_furious]

Late to the party here, but I figured I'd weigh in.

 

Like others, a Z wasn't my dream car.  I really wish I had a '37 Studebaker Dictator Coupe.  They're rare as heck these days.  I'd try to keep it as close to factory appearance as possible while changing out everything for modern tech.  The Vortec 4.3 inline-six would be my choice for the engine.  I'd want a 4-link in the back, and coilovers / wishbones in the front.   Of course, there are Mustang II universal setups, but I'd want something with better geometry without throwing off the factory ride height too much. Finished out, the car would have adjustable ride height, disc brakes all around, 6-speed manual, cruise control, AC, satellite radio with a nice hidden stereo, and the ability to switch between factory-looking wheels and tires and a set of wide sticky wheels and tires if I wanted to have some fun at an autocross or even a track day. It would be a daily driver when I was done, or I'd be shooting for that level of reliability.

Alternatives?  '68 Barracuda 340 Formula S, Richmond 6 speed, port fuel injection, stroker kit in the 340 with a nice set of well-matched aluminum heads & intake, Level 3 QA1 suspension setup, and of course all of the other creature comforts listed above.  Make it Turbine Red with a black Formula S stripe package.

If the Z was the only option...I'd go back to the factory light blue metallic and white interior.  Stripe like I have now, but in silver(follows the hood bulge, up over the roof and stops just short of the spoiler). Discs all around.  Max'ed out Apex Engineered suspension. Stroker L-series with the full Datsunworks treatment, ITBs and naturally aspirated. Edit:  The Hartley V8 would be an awesome powerplant.  I'd want that much more than an L-series. Forced induction would be tempting, but I think I'd run out of talent after 400 HP. I'd like to keep the body profile mostly stock, which would limit wheel & tire choices.  As for the body, I'd try to mold & reproduce as much of the sheet metal in CF or FG(front clip, roof, quarters, hatch, doors) as possible while still making it look factory.  I'd employ as much of the windtunnel mods as possible without looking too unorthodox. Again, all the creature comforts listed above would be on that build.

I have neither the time or money for any of these things, so I daily a well-worn Miata and drive my mostly stock Z on Fridays and weekends.  Occasionally I upgrade stuff on the Z, with many assists over the years thanks to auxilary.  So far, I've been able to put early SUs on the L28, MSA 3-into-2 headers and twice pipes with glasspacks, electronic ignition, I got rid of the stock fan and went to electric, 280 5-speed, and a R200 with Ron Tyler mount.  Next up is a Champion radiator and some silicone hoses.  It's improved quite a bit in 15 years.

Edited October 1, 2019 by capt_furious

[grannyknot]

If I ever win the lottery...  I would love to put this cute little thing in a 240z, https://elmerracing.com/raceshop/race-engines/thor-billet-engine-detail

Very light, would mount behind the shock towers and of course 1500hp could fun as well.

 

[seattlejester]

Either a mercedes V12 or the motorcycle V8 would also be some interesting engines.

 

I hadn't thought of other cars, my interests very so much though. I'm curious about the higher hp mitsubishi evo's, and swapped FD's has always been appealing, I'd love to try one of the R35 GTR's or a modernish tuned porsche at some point. A GTR with a 2JZ I think would be somewhat entertaining, as would be a supra with an RB26, just to watch the world burn.

[Ironhead]

It is kind of funny the way our minds work as builders.  I am building a Z currently....with LS3 and pretty much everything else upgraded.  There are still many limitations to the build simply because I am using the Z bodyshell.  It would have made a lot more sense, in terms of time and money and every other practical consideration to just buy a 3 or 4 year old Corvette.  But, I didn't want a Corvette.  I wanted to build something.

 

I know a big element of my thinking was that the Z is smog exempt in my state....so I could build whatever fire breathing monster I wanted and still street register it.  Also, I have always really loved the IMSA Zs from the 1970s. But beyond that I can't really explain my choice.  A Vette could be as fast or probably faster for less time and money.  But I'm just not interested in Corvettes.

 

Just highlighting how "impractical" this all is....LOL

Edited September 27, 2019 by Ironhead

[Zetsaz]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:55 PM, seattlejester said:

Either a mercedes V12 or the motorcycle V8 would also be some interesting engines.

 

I hadn't thought of other cars, my interests very so much though. I'm curious about the higher hp mitsubishi evo's, and swapped FD's has always been appealing, I'd love to try one of the R35 GTR's or a modernish tuned porsche at some point. A GTR with a 2JZ I think would be somewhat entertaining, as would be a supra with an RB26, just to watch the world burn.

 

https://autoweek.com/article/empire-hill-climb/datsun-280zmercedes-v12-empire-hill-climb-engine-swap-update-tick-tick?fbclid=IwAR0GrrK-sfLo7qu3FImL8ibjSX6_KM4EJwWikC5LxF8HbgybPvIdhc98QEg

[Exposed]

I'm really happy with the way my current build is going, don't think I have a "dream build" though. Everything I've wanted to do I've began or started to brain storm ways to achieve it, the down side to this is the Z is NEVER going to be finished. I guess I just like trying new things and I enjoy seeing a genuine reaction on someones face when they see the car.

After this one is "done" i think I'm going to be looking for a Cummins engine out of a dodge ram and possibly tinker with the Idea of AWD. Always thought it would be cool to see a stock looking Z ripping around with a turbo diesel.