Is this site dead?

[Tony D]

FB is ZC.Com X1000 in terms of asshats out there with absolutely no technical acumen preaching to people.
The sad thing is the really knowledgeable people you meet from that place tend to withdraw when they see the gaggle and hoarde...
It's Social Justice Warrior time, have to tiptoe around even the most basic things as children of all ages take offense at the slightest hint of a slight.

Oh, and then there's the haters from the forums that just come on to blast someone when they've been drinking. That's always a hoot.

It's fun for what it is, but most people are referencing these  forum sites for searching and archives of knowledge, and that was exactly what the originators  envisioned. Not a popular site with banter and crap...but a place where GOOD knowledge was exchanged, and deposited so others who wanted the knowledge without the background noise would have a place to go!

And in that, it functions as designed. The references you see on  FB are "HybridZ" this, "Classic Z" that... 

If they could move the useless banter all to Zukerbergs anal probe marketing site, and keep knowledge pure and factual here...oh let me sing like Willy Wonka! 

[madkaw]

Amen

[Zetsaz]

So much for no one coming on to ask about tire fitment lately... just had another thread started on that last night. 

[RebekahsZ]

I saw that at lunch and had a good chuckle. Brandon has the situation well in hand. I'm just glad that 15x3.5" rims fit with a 1-3/8" backspacing so I can fit 24x4.5 frontrunners inside the front fenders! Plenty clearance for future turbo piping. Good to see ya TonyD!

Edited July 12, 2017 by RebekahsZ

[1969honda]

Figured I'd share this here in case anyone had missed it.  It looks like the site administrators are struggling with this issue of site traffic and keeping the server current and funded.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/127731-hybridz-may-be-shutting-down/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1193898

Edited July 25, 2017 by 1969honda

[ZR8ED]

Nope not dead.  I still pop in and read from time to time, and I've been around here a longgg time.  I got into Porsche's for a while, but am happy to announce I am back in a Datsun.  This time a 280zxt.  Power steering and A/C and a turbo.  I still get to drive a classic Z car, yet have a few more creature comforts.

[Michael]

On 6/21/2017 at 9:52 PM, tube80z said:

I think you'll find the many things have been figured out over the years so some content areas don't see much new content.  ...

 

On 7/8/2017 at 9:12 PM, Derek said:

HybridZ has always frowned on asking before searching. That is a double edged sword though since it can have a tendency stifle new discussions or approaches. Plus it drives new people away.  ...

These are both factors.  The intentional push to make this site more of an archive and repository for knowledge, than a discussion-venue, has cast something of a pall on freewheeling banter.   Too much clutter of course obscures the useful information; the idea behind this site has considerable merit.  But it's not without adverse consequences.

 

I'm finding that so many methods that were revolutionary in 2000, are now mundane, or even obsolete.  Suppliers have changed.  Technology has moved on.  As our cars age and become rarer, the emphasis shifts from engine-swaps to rust-abatement and restoration.  "Parts cars" have all but disappeared.  Instead of swapping damaged or inferior parts, the emphasis now is on improving what's at hand.

 

Soon it will be time to post another Happy Birthday message to this site; it's about to turn 19!  I miss the bygone years of intense activity, even if indeed most ideas have already been covered, and new discussion is not always warranted.

[1970 240z]

On 7/25/2017 at 5:05 AM, 1969honda said:

Figured I'd share this here in case anyone had missed it.  It looks like the site administrators are struggling with this issue of site traffic and keeping the server current and funded.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/127731-hybridz-may-be-shutting-down/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1193898

I saw this when it posted, that's when I decided that I have resourced so much info here and enjoyment that I was indebted to HybridZ, I immediately donated and have donated since. It is soo unfortunate that photo bucket robbed the forum of so much visual information that was present.

[jhm]

HybridZ has ALWAYS been my first go-to place when I've got a technical question or new idea in mind.  And as much time as I've spent digging through the site, I can always find new and interesting discussions that I've never seen before.  (And like several of you have already noted, my typical response to a question on FB is to post a link to the thread on HybridZ that answers their question.) 

 

Can't thank everyone enough for all the many contributions over the years!!

 

 

[Zetsaz]

I think it's less an issue of the site, and more an issue of the culture of things. Everyone seems to want immediate answers through facebook now, but even that will eventually fade. I like connectivity and unity, but I've always been in favor of fragmentation if it gets the job done better. Facebook is great at a lot of things, but most things it does mediocre at best. The easy community and easy sharing of random stuff like single pictures or an album with a caption is nice, but forums will always be a better place for real technical discussion and archiving information. 

 

Besides that, as much as we might think facebook is this behemoth that's only getting bigger and forums are dying, I think even facebook as we know it will change or fade away eventually. Teenagers are already barely using it, usually opting for instagram or snapchat, which do an even worse job of archiving or sharing any sort of substantial information (I teach high schoolers, ask me how I know...)

[Ironhead]

I belong to a specialized BMW site as well, and the posts there have slowed way, way down from their peak around 2006-2007.

 

I have been told it is because most participants have shifted to FB.  I don't know if that is true or not, since I have nothing to do with FB, and never will.

[Derek]

I'm on facebook because of the Datsunworks heads. As far as getting info it sucks. Things disappear quickly so other than answering a question that people are too lazy to search it's not good for data.   Forums will always rule for good hard data but like newspapers people will miss them when they are gone and then it will be too late.

[DuffyMahoney]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:06 PM, Derek said:

I'm on facebook because of the Datsunworks heads. As far as getting info it sucks. Things disappear quickly so other than answering a question that people are too lazy to search it's not good for data.   Forums will always rule for good hard data but like newspapers people will miss them when they are gone and then it will be too late.

Searching facebook never works that well for me.  I love forums.  

[Gollum]

I've said it more verbosely in other threads, but times are changing and I don't know what the final solution is. But there's always been a double edged sword in every forum where asking people to search just halts discussion which could potentially foster growth on a topic. Eventually you've had conversations around 90% of what people ask, and there isn't enough left to hold enough interest to keep a community going. Facebook is the antithesis of this problem. People ask a question, and people answer because there's no real capability to search back through history, so the same conversations get repeated like groundhogs day.

 

Most projects people are following are either on instagram, youtube, or facebook. Those same people may post to forums, but it's generally because it offers at least a cleaner space to discuss things than social media comments.

 

That said, there needs to be something in between that I have yet to see pulled off. Where useful data can to collated and consolidated, into something maybe resembling a wiki, but open discussion can happen in a more social media style format where people are encouraged to share what they're up to and follow people's stories, which generally have little to contribute to technical documentation.

 

Social media was never intended to replace documentation, but the main value we've all had for this forum is the documentation that comes out of the hard work we pour into our projects. Where would the L community be without TimZ and JeffP? But where would that information get documented if they only ever shared their insights on facebook? But conversely, what are we all going to continue talking about in order to keep traffic up if we've written 5 million words of technical documentation and just link people to reference pages anytime a question gets asked? There's a balance somewhere, I just don't know what it looks like yet.

[socorob]

Hybridz facebook page for the chit chat? The forum for the data and info?

[Zetsaz]

311s.org seems to have started a compromise between the two. They have a main page that takes you to the forum as well as a wiki with some of the most common/useful questions and info. 

 

They don't seem to have followed through and it looks dated, but I'm sure something like that would work. Letting people register/login through facebook here was a step in the right direction I think, but even that hasn't worked very well since last I checked. 

[Derek]

I think maybe if there was a concerted effort from us to push people to hybridz from facebook questions via links it may get some new traffic through here. 

 

Something like this:

 

What are you guys doing for dash repairs?

 

http://dashboard site:forums.hybridz.org 

 

This is through google which in a round about way will get them there. Can we do this through the forum? The forum search function blows and always has. 

 

We are indirectly spoon feeding which I hate but if we don't take an active roll in increasing traffic then it will really become a problem.

 

Just a thought.

Derek

[Michael]

Facebook is one of those newfangled enterprises that's completely passed me by.  That forum traffic is falling because of the alternative of Facebook would be surprising... but only because I'm ignorant of Facebook.

 

A related problem occurred at our local BMW enthusiast meetup, "Ohio Bimmers".  Because it's more local, it's more conducive to semi-regular meeting in person.  I would host "wrenching sessions" at my house, with some 5-10 participants in a typical gathering.  Well, these were a common occurrence 10 years ago.  They've since petered out.  The culprit is demographics.  Most of the participants were younger fellows, typically freshly out of college, age 23-26.  In the ensuing years, they've done the Big 3: gotten married, had kids, and bought a house.  The Big 3 are enormous drains on one's time, one's spare energy and one's capacity to engage in hobbies, be it modifying Datsuns or playing chess or going mountain-climbing,  Perhaps in another decade or two, once the kids are grown and in college, the former participants will return.

 

Meanwhile, some of the founding members of this site were around age 35 in the year 2000.  Today they're in their mid-late 50s... seemingly the ideal time to reengage in hobbies.  And yet, most are absent.  Have they moved on to other cars?  Have they burned out?  Some, I know, went through divorces... then recovered and remarried.  Others... who knows?

[JMortensen]

FB is great for sharing pictures. For sharing tech info, it sucks. I often respond to FB posts with links to posts here a lot just to save the hassle of typing it out or having to copy/paste. Not an attempt to boost numbers here, but if it works out that way so much the better.

When I was an admin here we talked about what the purpose of the forum was, and the general idea was that it should be like a library or an wiki page where people could go to find the info they were looking for. Adding a million posts about the same issue makes searching harder, so that was strongly discouraged. I still think this is the right policy, and I'm sorry to see that it isn't as strictly enforced, and also happy to have had my hand in pruning the information tree in that way. 

There is a mix of "HybridZ is great" and "HybridZ screwed themselves by being too strict" on FB but seems to me most of the other forums have declining membership as well, and this one seems to have a fairly consistent level of tech postings that is higher than most of the others that I'm on (miata.net beats this forum out, but I think it's pretty safe to say there are a lot more Miata owners than Z owners at this point).

 

I think the response to the funding issue a year or so ago showed what is really going on. Casual Z owners don't care enough to engage in a serious forum, they just want to post pics and have people like them. People who are more serious about modifying or racing are going to stick around, because this is (still) a repository of very good info.

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by JMortensen

[Michael]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:32 PM, JMortensen said:

There is a mix of "HybridZ is great" and "HybridZ screwed themselves by being too strict" on FB but seems to me most of the other forums have declining membership as well, and this one seems to have a fairly consistent level of tech postings that is higher than most of the others that I'm on (miata.net beats this forum out, but I think it's pretty safe to say there are a lot more Miata owners than Z owners at this point).

It’s interesting that you mention Miata.net.  I’ve been active on that site, for a decade or so, but mostly from the viewpoint of stock or lightly modified Miatas.  Miatas are lovely cars to drive, but noxiously difficult for V8 conversions, requiring very substantial re-engineering for even a stock LS1 (or similar) V8.  The S30 Z requires so much refurbishment and sorting-out just to be livable on a daily basis, but the cavernous engine-bay is unrivaled as recipient for a large engine.

 

Miata.net doesn’t have the level of FAQ as does HybridZ.  There is no equivalent to the wind tunnel campaign that was done for the S30 back in 2007.  There are no legendary members like JohnC, whose posts have come to be pillars of received wisdom.  And there’s surfeit of dumb “newbie” posts about generic and trivial things.  But Miata.net remains lively because of persons to whom it appeals: middle-aged men who remember when the NA Miata came out in 1989, who couldn’t afford it then, or for whom family/career/etc. interfered, and who now have the time and the garage-space to tinker.  Without making a swipe at our younger brethren, it seems to me that for whatever reason, Z’s tend to appeal to people who are less established in life, less-experienced, who have more eagerness and dreams than wherewithal or practice.  So, the questions tend to be both ambitious and naïve… which is irritating to the veterans.  If somebody asks why his 1991 Miata is running roughly, it’s a quick deduction that the catalytic converter has clogged, suffocating the engine; or the plug wires, notorious for going bad, have indeed gone bad.  If somebody asks what’s the best way to swap a Hellcat V8 into a 1971 Datsun, and will the rear-end be strong enough, well, that’s a much more irritating question, is it not?

 

Also, it seems that for whatever reason, the originals/regulars on HybridZ have gone silent.  Some have passed away.  But others I’m sure are not only very much alive, but still own their Datsuns.  What happened?  What happened for example to “Katman”, to Terry Oxondale, Pete Paraska, Mike Kelly, Denny411 and so forth?  On Miata.net, we have numerous people with 20K or 30K posts, who have owned a dozen Miatas over the years, who have been buying and selling, driving and storing, modifying and preserving them for nearly 30 years.  Why has the same trend not persisted with HybridZ?

 

               Also, there are modern questions on perennial stalwart topics.  For example: “Suppose that I’m happy with stock brake-power, with maybe performance pads and SS lines.  But I want lighter brakes, for less unsprung mass.  And I don’t want to deal with drum brakes.  I don’t want to rifle through junk-yards.  I don’t need or want 13” rotors or 6-piston calipers.  I called Wilwood and Arizona Z-car, and that’s all that they had.  What else can I do, now, in 2019”.  Or: “So, you guys tested a bunch of Datsuns in a wind tunnel in North Carolina with no moving ground-belt, no boundary layer sucker and some high blockage.  My university has a high quality wind tunnel with a moving belt and capacity to spin the wheels using embedded electric motors.  With have a 6-component internal force balance and a particle image velocimetry system for getting time-resolved 3D measurements of the flowfield behind the rear hatch.  What should I be thinking in terms of a test matrix?”  Or: “My engine makes 650 ft-lbs of torque.  I want a manual transmission with overdrive, but don’t want to deal with the weight of a T56.  I need a blowproof bellhousing because I sectioned my firewall for 10” of setback beyond the JTR method, and my race-sanctioning body wont certify my car unless they see that SFI sticker.  I called G-Force, and they told me that at my power levels, it’s either a T56 or bust.  And everyone at my track insists that I install a Powerglide… but I want a proper manual transmission, with overdrive.  What should I do?”

              

Edited February 9, 2019 by Michael